I know that this topic has been talked about many, many times.....but maybe just to have it here for me to see again....all together....will help me know that I was and am justified in my feelings about an affair.<P>Can betrayers and the betrayed help?<P>Betrayers: Can you tell me how you treated your spouse after you would come home from being with the OP? I remember someone on a post a long time ago explaining how every little thing her H did would make her feel irritated and how she would just find any reason she could to go somewhere just so she could call or see the other person.<P>Betrayed: How either the EA or PA affected your self-esteem, your emotional well-being, did it make you feel suicidal, make you depressed? etc....<P><BR>Any and everything you can type to me......no matter how long or short....would be a great help.<P>All of you know what I have been going through.....<P>I promise not to use names or what site I got these things from......<P>I just want to be able to put notes down......on how truly damaging an affair....no matter EA or PA can be on a spouse and the children.<P>From the betrayers point of view......how when you are having an affair that your family can be totally neglected.....how nothing else mattered but the betrayers and OP happiness.<P><BR>Thank you so much<P>Nancy

Nancy:<P>I am the Betrayed. My W is currently having an EA/PA with a divorce OM. I can tell you my self-esteem was very low and considered suicidal briefly when I discovered the affair. Since then, I have pray long and hard and submerged myself in the words of God and that has made a world of difference for me. I mostly have good days as far as my mood is concerned. The hardest thing for me right now is that the affair is going strong and with no end in sight. I really have a hard time every time I know W has been with the OM. I just retreat myself to reading the bible or else I think I will go crazy. I have prayed and forgiven my W each time she sinned, that has help me to faced the pain also. I just wish the affair will end, I keep praying for God to open W's eyes and heart so she can see her sins and repent, but so far nothing. All I can do is keep praying.<P>JEC<BR>

Hi... I am the bretrayer. I never thought I would be one. I had a great family life and loved my husband dearly. We lacked sex and romance and did not touch often, but we had a strong bond. <P>After my 2nd child, I could see something happening to me. Not sure what, but almost an on-set of depression. I started traveling for work and started working with someone who was very attractive and intelligent. I approached him. For a couple months it was an EA. One night a week, I would meet him after work and we would just talk for a couple hours. I felt guilt as hell. My H was so good with me working late, picking up the kids, making dinner, having dinner waiting for me, etc. I felt bad, but was missing this in my marriage (actually I did not like sex since we got married - actually hated it). The affair turned into a PA, and that is when I told my H that the marriage was over. I could keep a straight face while he cried his eyes out. I was a different person. The passion of the OP took over and nothing mattered to me. It was like an evil twin came out during this time, and I lost my friends, some family and of course my H and marriage with it. I so regret what I did. I hate myself for it and was definitely suicidal for a while. I didn't feel like I deserved to live and wished for my H's sake that something would just happen to me, so he could continue with his life and raise our kids.. I definitely hit bottom and continue having my highs and lows. My lows get pretty low, and I don't know when I will ever get over the terrible thing that I did.... <P>I hope my story helps shed some light for you. I don't know if it is normal for all betrayers to feel this guilty that they can barely function, but my affair has ruined my life.

I have been (18 years ago) the betrayer and I am now the betrayed. I have been on both sides and being the betrayer a long time ago has helped me deal with my situation now.<P>When I was the betrayer the passion of the EA was tremendous. My W had focused on our pregnancy and then to our only D. This continues for several months and my EN's were met by OW. The passion built until it was time to move into a PA. I had to make a decision and I decided to work on my marriage. The OW became crazy and concocted several lies and confronted my W. Somehow we got through it, but the hurt and pain that I caused to my W our marriage the OW and her children ( she was not married) and myself was unbelievable. A scar that I continue to carry with me. I vowed to my W and myself that I would never do anything that would hurt like that again. I would never even think about another woman in that way. I have been true to my vow.<P>Today my W is the betrayer and it is very odd that the things that she does and says to me and what I know she has said to OM are exactly what I said to my OW. It is scarey how the two resemble each other but then as I read on this board most affairs have similar patterns and events.<P>I did a Lb on Monday... I told my W that what she is doing is the cruelest thing that one spouse can do to another. That the hurt and pain is unbearable and no person should have to go through it. Hers is now a PA that stemmed from an Internet A that is long distance. OM lives in England, but they are with each other about 1 week out of the month. W has recently moved into a duplex but she has lived with a friend since the 1st of March.<P>To top this off, my D who is now 17 and a perfect child up until now told me Tuesday night that she is pregnant. We raised her in a Christian school, we could and did talk to her about anything and everything. She does not drink, smoke, use drugs, she has always been on the honor roll, been active in theater, volleyball (captain of her team), has many awards, is an accomplished pianist, has achieved four piano Gold Cup awards (something rarely gotten in this area) and the list goes on.<P>The father is a 22year old man whom she met 2 months ago, he has no car, no job, only finished high school, 4 years ago got another girl pregnant with twins and she miscarried (?) And 6 months ago got another girl pregnant and she miscarried (?).<P>This is every fathers dream, right!! They are going to have the child. They say they are both going to college this summer. My D has no job skills. I do not know how they can make it.<P>I cannot believe this is happening...first my W shatters my dreams of retirement and a wonderful non-working remaining life ( we look at retirement property last August) and now my dreams of D going to school, starting a career and settling down with a nice young man and starting a family are also shattered.<P>I feel, Nancy, like I do not exist, like I am in a double nightmare with no chance of waking up, I feel so low that there are not words to describe it. And yet I am still doing Plan A and I am going to support and guide my D the best way I know how. <P>I don't understand. <P><BR>J W

Hi there Mental,<P>After I was with OM, I was in a very good mood. Very good. But, if my H tried to touch me or even looked at me crosseyed, I was quick to jump down his throat. <P>After a couple of hours of being in contact with OM, I was very irritable, I hated my H, he grossed me out, I was snappy, *****y, and down right nasty at times, not so much in my words but in my actions. I was not even very nice to my children. <P>I am embarrassed to admit, but my family took a big back seat in my life. I never thought past my selfishness. My every thought was consumed by OM. I neglected my family, friends and myself for the company of OM. I do not know why this is but that is what happened. <P>Like we have all talked about it is an addiction and with all addictions it is time consuming and everything around you disapates. nothing else is important but you getting that gratification.(what ever or who ever that may be)<P>I hope this helps.<BR>Mercy

My H had a brief PA many months ago and confessed it to me recently. <BR>It has crushed my self-esteem. Any fault I have has now been magnified a million times in my head. I have spent many hours on the floor of our closet crying and staring at the darkness... so I guess that would be depression. <BR>I have a baby and a preschooler who have suffered and don't even know why. While I have some better moments now (it has been almost two months since discovery), there have been many times that I have been unable to care for them. I guess you would call it shock. Just too numb to move. <BR>Yes, I have felt suicidal. I have never felt so much pain in my life. I have felt that I have lost everything and that my life is over. Everything I have counted on has seemed to be a lie. I have been unable to eat, sleep, concentrate, or function in a productive way. <BR>My three year old has told me of nightmares where everyone is sad... He has taken to vomitting when there is a change in our routine. His stomach problems have been tested and are not physiological, but emotional. That diagnosis made me feel like a failure as a parent as well. <BR>When sleep would finally come I would have the most horrific and grotesque nightmares, bloody murders, Satan pursuing me, etc etc. <BR>Two months into this, I can now sleep and eat and am trying to return to being the mother I once was. <BR>I still panic and am filled with dread when I am in public as I fear that every woman I see could be HER. I feel inferior, unwanted, tainted, ashamed, unloved, unworthy, thrown away, and helpless. I can still really, physically, feel the pain in my heart. <BR>Welp, that's all the ugliness lurking in me! Are you SURE you really wanted to hear that?

Hi-<P>I was betrayed by my H. He moved out with the OW and is starting to not want to pay the bills. It's really hard on both me and my boys. My H was treating me so poorly after he moved me to another state that I knew something was wrong. Before we moved, things were fine. We bought a house with an extra bedroom and a bonus room for his elderly parents in case we needed to take care of them eventually. The house was finished and by the time my boys and I moved here, it wasn't long to find out he was having an affair while he was here by himself.<P>I lost 25 pounds (and didn't need to). Just making a meal for my children was more than I could handle sometimes. We did a lot of pizza and hot dogs. There were days where all I could do is sit in a chair and be paralyzed. The only thing I could take for depression was St. Johns Wort (because of a family problem I was afraid of starting up in myself). I'd feel like I just want to die sometimes, but keep plugging away for the sake of my children. I tried desperately to save our marriage, but I was the only one interested. My long distance phone bills are unbelievable, but it's my therapy (he wouldn't go to counseling and won't pay for me to). I have since found out he's been living a double life for a very long time, before our children were born. I've ended up with herpes, which adds to the feeling of wanting to die and the sense of no future. I am not suicidal, but sometimes wish an asteroid would fall on me or I'd get hit by a truck and free me of the immense pain. I stopped wearing my seat belt when I drove in hopes of being hit and not surviving. Realizing my kids would go to him cured me of that. Still, with all that he has done to me, I still cry every day and pray for God to change his heart. I don't know why - I can't ever see myself living with him again, maybe it's for the kids. There is no lower place to be in than when the person you love most in the world outright becomes a stranger and turns against you, by their own choice.<P>He would watch me cry so hard I couldn't breathe and accuse me of theatrics. He was as cold as a robot. He was willing to throw away his own family who told him he wouldn't be welcome at any of their homes with the OW. The OW was a co-worker, and the shame of doing what he did to his family was non-existent as far as what other co-workers thought of him. He watched the tears of his own children and listened to them beg him to come home, and from that accused me of turning them against him (when all I really do is encourage forgiveness and prayer from them for him)!! The word "evil" doesn't even come close to explaining what my H has become. He's not the same person, but now I feel she can have him. She might take my place, but she's going to have to wonder now who is going to take her place. ?? I already know (my H recently went on a business trip where I know he met up with one of his old babes already behind her back), but that's for her to find out after she's wasted a lot of her good years on him.<P>My question to women who sleep with married men...what the hell are you thinking?! When a woman does that, you just hurt other women! The man who is willing to cheat on his wife and kids IS NOT A CATCH!! I don't know, it's such a no-brainer to me. If I have a life past this, there isn't a cheating man out there who will get the time of day from me. They are toast.<P>I feel a little better now. Thanks. God bless. Kathy

By the way, I'll pray for your situation and hope you rightfully keep your children. I can't imagine a huger miscarriage of justice.

I am the betrayed. My wife had a EA with my neighbor and former friend. My life crashed about my feet and I lost all sense of who I really am. Briefly thought about a quick twitch of the wheel into a telephone pole after W and I had an argument over this whole thing. I realized that it was a coward's way out. I still hurt every day (2 months since D-Day). Some days are worse than others. I haven't slept well since, have lost over 30 pounds, and feel so much older. Wife and I are about to separate for, at least, 4 months. I move, she stays and keeps the house, her life and even him (if she wants). I have to leave and start all over again. I get incredibly angry at her at times because she seems so f@#$ing selfish. That's what affairs are really about, selfishness and deception. The realization that my wife could deceive me so and "replace" me so easily has "killed me".<P>I have been able to shield her and the children from any anger recently by going for long walks, skating or bike riding. I also read many of the books I have discovered on the topic both "clinical" and spiritual. I am slowly coming to the realization that I am in fact, dead both spiritually and psychologically. However, there is life after death on Earth as there is in Heaven. I am on a long road to recovery and enlightenment. It is a road I follow because I chose to follow it and I will continue along with or without my W. I pray that it is "with" but only He knows for sure.

Nancy<BR>After discovery I lost 10 lbs in two weeks. I only weghed 125 to start with. I got pregnant on the pill, was violently ill, miscarried. I had a major pelvic infection. This was all the physical crap I endured from Dec. 20 - April 12 98/99. I looked so bad that several times I went into a store or bank, and while I was standing in the lineup cashiers would rush over to take me to an empty till or open one becuase I looked like I was going to pass out. This when my H was living at home and still seeing the bimbo. He wasn't even treating me badly. These were just the effects of the emotional stress.<P>My self esteem? What's that? I felt like a non human. Still so sometimes. Too often. And we are supposedly 8 months into recovery?<BR>I felt humiliated, degraded, worthless...<BR>because of the lies and betrayal of trust.<BR>I feel as though I can trust no one. <P>This is what infidelity does to the mind and soul. IMHO the only thing that I can imagine that would cause more pain than I have endured the last 16 months (Plus the years they were "just friends") is to lose a child.<P>I have changed inside. I used to be a good person who looked for the best in everyone. Now I am filled with bitterness and distrust.<BR>Every woman I see who looks the slightest bit bimboish makes me snarl to myself.<P>I live like a hermit. Too many people know what my H did and I can't face them. I don't want to be around people anymore than I have to because I feel so inhuman. I hate faking it. I hate pretending. <BR>This is what betrayal did for me! <BR>I think that was a vent.

To all of the above, Ditto. I found out 9 weeks ago H was having affair. OW is involved in the same community activity as H. <BR><P><BR>Ironically, I encouraged H to become active. He is very talented and personable(when he wants to be). He suffers from some depression which he historically hit the bars to escape from. I thought that would be good for him.<BR><P><BR>My reaction: disbelief at first. Not for long. The same day we looked for houses, he told me he wanted out. My input to the deterioration was naive, totally trusting H to keep vows. I was very thankful he loved me in spite of my faults. We had agreed--no more divorce. (H--2; Me--1) When H would get upset, I simply waited until he got over it. My first H had terrible temper, but was over it after. My current H. apparently kept things in 'festering' mode. I made the mistake also of not pushing to a conflict and resolution when things came up. <BR><P><BR> My feelings? Old, ugly, uninteresting, fat, low self-esteem, etc. In my head I know I am not that bad, but it's hard to deal with. The first 8 weeks I felt my insides were being wrenched out of me. I still have no interest in cooking, (children are adults), hate to go into grocery store, ache all the time. <BR><P><BR>I have found that fasting and praying, reading the Bible, listening to inspirational radio really helps. We must remember that we are on this earth in a very temporal manner. Jesus Christ is planning something far better for all of us.<BR><P><BR>I know, we still have to live day-to-day. I am quite healthy, and will live long. So I started walking immediately, lost 30 lbs. so far. (19 the first 2 weeks) Eating is a struggle, but I am my sole support, choosing a self-employment mode where I will have to pay for my own insurance after D takes place. <BR><P><BR>He is really pushing hard. I would love reconciliation. I have a great capacity for forgiveness.<BR><P><BR>We entered into our marriage determined to have independence, and allow spouse to 'be the person he wanted to be'. We both became very self-possessed with the pressures of adolescent children, esp. my youngest son, who has many problems, yet to have steady job, not at home. This caused much neglect of each other. <BR><P><BR>I have learned so much from MB, the book SURVIVING AN AFFAIR.<BR><P><BR>I am trying to do plan A. Hard because H is in his own apartment. Take this moment at a time. <BR><P><BR>I really want to talk to OW, but not sure how to approach. Also H may have penchant for such activity. Only God can make changes.<BR><P><BR>God bless you,<BR><P><BR>Committed <BR><P><BR>------------------<BR><BR>Committed<p>[This message has been edited by Committed (edited April 22, 2000).]

Thanks to all of you.....although it brought tears to my eyes....it still gave me some peace.<P>I felt so bad when I found out. The abusive words he spoke to me and the girls are something that is hard to forget. I know that I am above those words....and that many of them were spoken to help ease "his" pain and guilt.<P>But the heart takes a long time to heal. <P>His physical abuse on the children and his physical abuse with me are the things that really get to me. I wished he would stop.....stop all of these horrible and nasty games that he is playing.<P>I get so mad looking back 2-3 years ago. Mad at myself for not seeing the signs. He was so aloof.....he didn't want anything to do with me or the children......every discussion turned into a battle for him. Every chance he could get he was pushing me out the door or he was going to get something at the store.<P>Whenever I started feeling like I could take no more.....the presents came. The I love yous' were said......the affection would start back up. I started thinking that it was just my imagination.....that it was me.<P>He is such a deceiver.....such a salesman. His lies were told with such "truthful" eyes....that I really thought he was telling the truth. I think that was what bothered me the most when I found out. He could look me straight in the eyes and lie.....and I couldn't tell.<P>I wish all of you the best and a big thank you for being there when I needed a friend<P>Nancy

This pain still hurts...even 1 1/2 years later.

I think that I am having a bad day....I feel like my heart is so heavy....I have felt that way for a couple days.<P>It is like the hurt I felt....after discovery....after he moved out....is slowly coming back.<P>I have not cried.....(about him), I haven't felt depressed about him or the situation....I just feel that my heart is starting to crumble.<P>Nancy

Nancy ,<P>I read the end of your post,I am not good at expressing myself, but i want you to know I am sorry for your hurt and pain. I am praying for you .bethn

Thanks Bethn,<P>I am sometimes not good at expressing myself either.....but when my heart hurts it seems the emotional words just flow. Many times they don't make sense to others...but it makes you feel much better just to say them...jumbled or not.<P>Nancy