Hi all....this is my first post here but have been lurking since D-day,2 1/2 months ago.DH had a one week fling(kissing) but we are in recovery and doing great. My marriage is becoming more than I ever imagined but of course its still a roller coaster ride.<P>Heres what I want to know. OK.....we are being completely honest with each other now.I asked DH the other day...."What would you do if she paged(OW) you?" Dh said...."I would probably just deleted it." I got really upset and said how we are supposed to be honest about everything. He said....."Honey....think about it,what good would come from it....it would put it in a tailspin and start all your fears again for nothing." I started to think about it. Dr Harley says to be honest but to PROTECT your spouses feelings at the same time. I was thinking about Dr. Laura also. I have heard her show where she feels that if a lie is going to do no good and cause pain...leave it be.<P>Then a few days ago he went shopping with his partner from work(during work). Anyways....I said"Did you buy anything?" He said no. Then called me 10 minutes later and said....."Honey,I feel terrible. I bought you an Easter gift but I wanted to surprise you and now I feel like I have been lying".<P>Then we started talking about how we tell "white lies" to friends and family for 2 reasons.....we dont want to hurt their feelings and we dont want to hear their "wrath". For example.....my MIL invites us over for dinner. She would have her feelings hurt if we said no, so we make up an excuse.....you know what I mean? Or look at what we do to our kids.....we lie about lots of stuff to protect them.<P>I know this is long and very confusing. But I wondered how people feel about lying while putting marriages back together.Dont get me wrong about my DH......he is not a "lyer" but he hates to hurt people and always wants to protect them......but at what cost?<P>Thanks alot....<BR>

I personally think lies about presents are ok... a no-brainer. It is just postponing the moment to preserve the surprise.<P>As for "social" white lies, I try yo get around them by being vague or simply saying "I'm sorry, we can;t make it"...You really do not owe an explanation.<P>As for anything else, I think the truth is best. Does this mean I always follow what I believe? No, but I try, and expect my H to do the same. In the paging example you gave, I would expect my H to tell me he was paged by OW, and deleted it w/o responding. If he didn't tell me and I later found out she paged him (still assuming that he didn't respond), I would not be too upset abt his not mentioning it, as I would understand why he did not.<BR>

Garden Girl:<P>I think Kam6318 gave you a good response. Social lies and little "white" lies about things like presents are probably not what's contemplated in the realm of "total" honesty. Those are generally harmless.<P>I would disagree slightly with Kam6318 regarding the paging issue. I think Dr. Harley is clear in his teachings that total honesty regarding the relationship is important. In order for the couple to fully recover, the betraying spouse needs to be conscientious about reporting EVERY instance of contact by the OP after discovery. That's one of the ways that the betrayed spouse can learn to trust the betrayer again.<P>I think if your H got a page from OW, under Harley's principles, he should do two things: First, he should NOT call her back. Second, he should immediately tell YOU that she paged, and that he was NOT returning the page (and that he would immediately delete the call from the pager).<P>By doing these things he has: (1) demonstrated his commitment to you by refusing to call OW back; (2) followed the Policy of Complete Honesty; (3) demonstrated to you that he can be trusted not to contact OW; and (4) sent a clear message to OW that he's serious about breaking contact permanently.<P>I think, therefore, that it's important for him to let you know. It is a disrespectful judgment for him to ASSUME that if he told you about the page that you would get upset. It is exactly that type of pre-judgment that enabled him to "cheat" on you and keep it a secret ("What she doesn't know won't hurt her").<P>Does this make sense?<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

LS, we are in agreement...I said I would expect himn to tell me and to not return the page. All I;m saying is if he failed to tell me, I would not be livid, as I can see whay he might think that was the right thing to do. But, of course, we'd have to review the Total Honesty idea again!

Hi Garden Girl!<P>I haven't posted here for a long time, but occasionally I just feel I must share something I've learned. <P>Dishonesty in big and little issues led to a distance in our marriage and eventually to my h's affair (he wanted to be 'real' with someone). <P>Something critical to our marriage recovery was my realization that if I wanted Total Honesty, I had to REWARD it, rather than freaking out every time I learned or heard something unpleasant or contrary to MY set of values. <P>This is addressed in the MB books, but I don't think most betrayed really understand how we set ourselves up to be lied to. <P>Think in terms of conditioned response: when we respond negatively to honest opinions and actions, we train our spouses to bend the truth. They learn that lying or pretending brings positive or neutral responses from us. <P>After my h. confessed his affair (a 14 mo. office romance which had been over for a couple of months when he told me), I wanted Total Honesty. <P>I promised him that I could handle whatever he told me and that I would always respond calmly and listen intently without judging or flipping out. His job was to answer my questions in a kind manner, let me know when I offended him, and not use honesty as a blunt weapon.<P>The key to the success of this approach, in my opinion, is that he no longer thinks of me as some needy, dependent ball and chain that he has to protect from reality like one of our children. His respect for me has skyrocketed, and passion is returning because he perceives me as strong and alive. <P>Does this make sense? I just think that this may be a common trait among the betrayed; being unable/unwilling to cope with difficult truths.<P>liz\pearl<P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

Hi ladies.....thank you. Dh has not had any contact with OW since d-day. Of course I conjure up suspicions but there has been no proof nor has he done anything to make me feel that way....I am just so scared ,you know?<P>When I mentioned about the not telling if there was contact,he says this "Honey....I am scared to death of losing you and I dont want all the trust I have been building to go down the drain". If she did contact him.....he would run for the hills LOL She's probably got another MM now. Since they only saw each other once.....there was no addiction,thank GOD!!!<P>That is so true about the over-reacting when truths are told. That describes me to the T....but I am getting much better. I dont blame him for not wanting to tell me some things.....I am the queen of over reactors <P>Thanks again......glad to hear the thoughts on this.

Kam6318:<P>I don't know how I missed that part! Somehow I only read that you said "delete the page."<P>Mea culpa! <P>Looks like we don't disagree at all!<p>[This message has been edited by Lone Star (edited April 26, 2000).]