OOPS advantage!! <P>HI all,<BR> Just curious but, does the OP have an advantage over the spouse like I posted on the D board or am I crazy. Does this make sense? Or do I believe OJ is innocent. Your input PLEASE.<P>Nancy (Mental) said:<BR>"What I have learned is that most wayward spouses have not a clue how unhappy they are in their marriages until someone tells them, shows them and continues to persuade them that they can find happiness with them."<P> I said (PH):<P>I really feel this is true in MOST cases too!<P>In mine we never had a "perfect" marriage, but neither one of us ARE perfect!<P>I was busy working AND trying to start a business that would allow us a MUCH better life AND more time together.<P>My W felt Lonely, Depressed and alone. I see this much clearer now. She tried a lot of different things to "get my attention"<P>One of them being getting her nails done. She waited for me to notice. I didn't. She cried on OM shoulder. He'd tell her how Beautiful her nails looked and how beautiful she was and how she wasn't getting old (he's 61!!) and all that crap!<BR>ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS WAIT FOR ME TO MAKE A MISTAKE and BANG!!! He'd JUMP all over it.<P>Let's face it. The OP in our wayward spouses lives HAD a HUGE advantage (I said HAD, I'll get to that) over us because they didn't have to GUESS what our S's needs were!! They just had to LISTEN to what they complained about and DO THE OPPOSITE!!!! HOW EASY IS THAT!! Making HUGE Love Deposits all the way down the line!! With NO REAL LIFE OBSTACLES EITHER!! What a CAKE WALK!!!<P>We, on the other hand were expected to KNOW what they wanted by some sort of SOUL MATE connection!! OK, if we listened as well as OP we would have known BUT, WE WERE DEALING WITH KIDS, JOBS, MONEY ISSUES, LEAKY ROOFS, FLAT TIRES, COLDS, FAMILY ISSUES ETC....<P>ALL they had to do (OP) was sit back listen for the hour or two they SNUCK in together and tell our spouses WHAT THEY WANTED TO HEAR!!! <P>As a result, in the fog, our S's think they have found the person who UNDERSTANDS THEM BETTER THAN ANYONE!! Their "best friend" their "soul mate"!! All the while the OP just PLAYS THE PART. SMOKE AND MIRRORS, THAT'S AN AFFAIR. <P>Now I said I'd get back to "HAD" the advantage. This "charade" can't last forever. OP starts to "slip up" make mistakes, become HUMAN for God's sake!!<P>For those who have hardly any contact with S, this may be good because NOW OP has to "wing" it with NO NEGATIVE BLUEPRINT to PLAY against!! PLUS, they let down their defenses because they THINK they've WON the WAR!! <P><BR>BIG MISTAKE for those OP that have a spouse here that "USES THE PRINCIPALS" of MB<BR>They are now dealing with a NEW and IMPROVED (hopefully) Spouse that KNOWS how to deposit Love into their S's bank and (hopefully) NOT make any (real) WITHDRAWALS. One that provides a "safe" alliterative and slowly becomes LESS to blame for the EA/PA.<P><BR>As time goes on and OP shows who they REALLY are, a POOR SUBSTITUTE for the H or W left behind (at least MOST OP seem to be a "DOWNGRADE" from the S from what I've read from betrayers here) They just "ARTIFICIALLY" and with tricks and a phony front, made the wayward spouse "Feel Good" OR fall in love with them. <P>IF the wayward spouse hasn't made too many "Withdrawals" Or the betrayed hasn't done the same with too many LBs, there can be reconciliation. <BR>I KNOW, there has to be LOVE right. Well, when all the smoke and mirrors are taken down as long as there is a TINY spark, Love can grow out of;<BR>Relief that the wayward spouse came back for the betrayed and the relief of anger for the betrayer for the betrayed after realizing that we "stuck it out inspite" and we are HUMAN and never meant to hurt them to begin with. AND one more thing, the AFFAIR made a DEEP DEEP line in the sand in the Marriage and THAT was when the REAL breakdown came about!!<BR>WHEW!! I'm sorry for the LONG post!! GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK<P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P><p>[This message has been edited by PLEASE HELP (edited April 27, 2000).]

I think you're right, Frank. I've given this one a LOT of thought.<P>Ok, here's how I see it. Some of us thought our marriages were ok. You know what I mean, pretty good and attributed little moments of irritation, etc. to just "life stuff". Even our spouses (who eventually betrayed) may not have realized that they were unhappy. Why should they be? If those nagging little thoughts ever entered their minds, they just said "Well, we've been married a while, we're tired, lots going on, but look at all the great things my husband/wife does, etc." and they just push them aside. Heck, they may think they're ok, not estatic, but ok - happy enough, if you know what I mean.<P>Then......out of nowhere, comes OP. Accidently or on purpose, they address a need that we've been neglecting for years. And all of a sudden, it's awakened in our spouse. It WAS important - they had pushed it aside, probably didn't even realize they had done it, during our marriage. But NOW, now it's up there in and their face! Sorta like giving someone a pill to take everyday instead of meals. I mean, this pill has just enough nutrition in it to survive, but not what it takes to THRIVE. And as long as the person doesn't know there's anything else, any other choices, well, that's what they take. But, all of a sudden someone hands them a seafood dinner (sorry, my favorite), tons of good veggies and bread and white wine to drink and voila! They really ENJOYED that meal. So, when it's offered again a while later, well, it made me feel good, so what's the harm, I'm not doing anything wrong (that's the "we're just friends thingy"). So, on occasion, they enjoy that balanced meal. But here's the rub, soon they discover that they're not just enjoying that meal and looking forward to indulging again, but physically, they're THRIVING - getting stronger, happier, feeling better all the way around. It wasn't just something they WANTED, but something they NEEDED to be all that they could be and they never even realized it!!! Now they do - and now we're all in trouble. The great nutritious pill just isn't enough anymore.<P>In many respects, OP DOES have that advantage. Once they find what works, they can concentrate on that and they don't have to worry about the mundane things in life that muddy the waters. The downside is that they're only taking care of SOME of the needs, we're filling the others. And when they have to fill them all, many time, they fall flat on their faces and the big important thing gets neglected - just like WE did it so long ago.<P>So now WE have the advantage when we get the chance. We're armed with "personal growth" , knowledge and the tools to recognize and fill so very many needs, including the ones we neglected so early. Our history with our spouses is an advantage AND a disadvantage.....a means to tie us together as well as memories of disappointment. That's why showing how much we've grown is so important. It helps to erase the disappointment of history!<P>OK, I was just gonna say "I think you're right" and off I go again!!!! So, I think you're right, Frank, and I'll shut up now!!!!<P> Luv ya!<P>Lori

WOW LORI.<P>Thats all i can say...WOW!!! If there was ever a clearer version written of how a marriage unravels, I have never read it. That one will be printed up by me and re-read...maybe even given to my children on their wedding days.<P>Nice Job.<BR>Allison

I agree. A big sticking point between us now is she wants to have another child. I don't. Of course, the OM says, "Darling, of course I would love to have children with you!" She doesn't see that he already has two kids in different states while he is in a third. Never married to the mothers. A match made in heaven. Or maybe a little lower. <P>I did it, too. When we leave, we usually think that the OP is the solution to all of our problems. After a few months, hmmm, maybe not all of our problems, but most of them. A few more months, oh s**t, what did I do. Unfortunately, for some it is much too late. <P>Why is it that the WS usually "downgrades?" In my case, the OP is a armored car driver with barely a high school diploma. Finds it difficult to put a coherent sentence together. Had to live with two other guys to make ends meet. Failed relationships, etc. Here I am, Ph.D. student, top of my class in undergrad, making a pretty good living even though I am only working part time. My first marriage lasted 10 years, this one 14. Close relationship with my children by the first marriage, even closer with my second family. What did she gain? Very confusing for a logical Ph.D. student like myself. But I guess this is not logical.<P>Now there is a point on the other string about now they don't have all of the problems that we do. My son asked this evening, "Will my mommy always love me?" He spent half the drive to his therapist today crying about how he misses his mommy. This is all the stuff that she doesn't have to deal with. Does this make it easier for her? Possibly make the relationship last longer? I don't know. She can be off in her fantasy world and doesn't have to deal with getting the kids off to school every day and such. Must be a nice life.<P>It is a good point, PH. We are all waiting for our respective punch lines. Hopefully it will not be too late.

Hmmmm, you know I think you guys are right, and I was reading on a certian other board (that shall remain nameless) today and one of the women said something about somethings she does for the MM she is seeing that his w doesn't do. And went on to say she hopes the w never does, because then the MM wouldn't need her (ow).<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

I'll keep mine short...<P>Advantage, at first YEP!<P>The OP has no bagagge, no bad emotions <BR>attached to them whatsoever. They don't <BR>invoke the taker in the spouse. <P>But it does change when they start to <BR>open their eyes a bit. Everyone has their<BR>faults and baggage. And the sad part it<BR>sometimes they can't forgive themselves.<P>Love , its crazy but it's still love<BR>and I love my wife<P>J

Hey all...I've known the OM for 7 years and I considered him a friend. I felt like I never REALLY knew him (boy, was I right! ), because he was introverted and never opened up on personal issues. I'd actually feel sorry for him at gatherings because our circle of friends would avoid talking to him because no one knew what to say; I would make attempts to initiate conversation with him.<P>He's the CEO of a small company with about 12 employees (btw, my wife works there with him; I'm the one who suggested a couple of years ago that he (OM) should hire her to get their company organized and on the right track...d'oh!; she started having an EA with him in 11/99; PA started March 19th). I'm still great friends with three of his co-workers (who are also partners in the company) and they've had BIG problems with his lack of communication and listening skills over the years; he tends to get angry easily when issues of insurance, higher wages, etc. are brought up by his co-workers, so they want out. But, they have no other place to go; I've listened to these guys complain about their working conditions for the past three to five years.<BR> <BR>So, where's this side of the OM that no one's ever seen except my wife? How could one become attracted to a person if they act that way in social settings? He doesn't have better physical traits than I; he's had one girlfriend for as long as I've known him and hasn't dated anyone other than her. He's married to his job. She likes that he works hard and she gets to work with him...and, that he has his own company (i.e., is a self-made introvert...I mean, 'man'). He's got more money than me, but not accroding to his annual salary...haven't seen his savings account or anything; a single guy living in a small apartment with one girlfriend in 7 years SHOULD have a lot of money saved up. <P>My questions and statements are rhetorical, of course. I don't have the answers, probably my W or the OM don't have the answers to all of the questions either. His 'advantages' are baffling, though...<P>theo

Hi all, <BR>In my case the OW was right there, a customer at work who was just so helpless. I was home with kids, carpool, activities and he worked nights and weekends. (car dealer) Not sure how I could have filled his needs when he was never around but now I realize why. I don't know of any affair other than the one that broke up my marriage and he is still with her. Planning on marrying her in a few months. The posts on this thread helped me and I see that even though this "relationship" lasted almost three years and might beat the stats and end in marriage, it may not be the heavenly situation they think it is. I figured if it lasted this long it must be the real thing but now I am not so sure. She was there to break up his marriage and then was there to see him through the divorce when he neded her most. See how she set that one up? Now that the divorce is final (5 months), they are planning to marry. Am I wrong in thinking they had a relationship that lasted because they had a crisis between them (their own doing) and they were there for each other? Once the dust settles and real life filters in to their fantasy, it will all fall apart? I am over "him" but maybe not the situation. I know I may still be bitter but venting like this helps. Watching him go through another divorce might help even more.<BR> I was here holding my kids together (God only know how) while he went off and running. Divorced the kids too in my opinion. They would just get in his way and he wanted to be free. This woman was there to open bank accounts, put a 200,000 townhouse soley in her name (his money) so he wouldn't have to show it on financials, and most importantly, she was part of the lies and deceptions and was perfectly happy with him not being with his children. Now that they plan to wed, they want the kids with them. Can you imagine???? I just let them go and part of me sees that as his way of looking for problems with her. I mean...why now?????<BR>I know the odds are against their marriage lasting. What do you think?<BR>BUT>>> I have learned and grown from sites such as this. I know for the next time what to do and what not to do. I hope I get another chance, but not with him.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by better4it (edited April 29, 2000).]