I have had this feeling for a long time that my husband of 3 years cheated on me awhile ago. He'd tell me he'd be home at 9 PM and not show up until 2 AM, he went to bars all the time, and flirted with other women in front of me. His friends also started to look at me differently and they weren't as friendly towards me. Then we were at a party and this woman told me that he had slept with someone that he works with. When I confronted my H, he denied it and said that it was just a rumor, that he gave the girl a ride home one night and that one of the people that he works with saw him and blew it up into something more. It just made me doubt him and it made all my fears seem more real. How am I ever going to know if he really did cheat? All my instincts say that he did, but should I trust him when he says that he didn't?<BR>Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Hi Starla22<P>Could you give more details of your relationship, as I see there is nothing on your profile then we might be able to help out, but welcome you have come to the right place for help, if he only gave her a ride once I don't know, maybe he is telling the truth but tell us more please then with more facts we will be able to understand and have a better picture of what has happened. Sorry that you have to be hear though<P>Jenny<P>------------------<BR>Where have all the cowboys gone ?<BR>Paula Cole<P>

Well, back when I think that all this happened, we were fighting quite a bit. I was always mad at him for not coming home when he said he would and for always going to bars and out to parties without me. Whenever I would get upset, he would get mad right back because he thought that I should have unconditional faith in him and not "control" how he spends his time. At the time, we didn't have any kids, but now we have a baby (not planned.) Things are going really well now, he comes home when he says he's going to and he doesn't go anywhere without me and our baby. It's a very drastic change from how he used to be. <BR>The thing is, if he did cheat on me, he would NEVER confess because he knows how strongly I feel about it.

Hi Starla....<P>Sorry you are having these suspicions. Your story sounds similar to mine.<P>My H would tell me that after work, he would be home at a certain time. However, he wouldn't be home until 1-4am. He would go to the bar after work with his single friends and friends with troubled marriages. He wouldn't call me and I had no transportation to find him.<P>He also told me that there was this woman that he saw there twice, and that she gave him a ride,back to his car, since he had gotten a ride from one of his friends.<P>I thought my H would never cheat on me. I thought that was the very last thing he would do...Well, unfortunately, he did. He ended up having a 2 month affair with that woman that gave him a ride back to his car.<P>Although, during those 2 months, I suspected something wrong, I wanted so much to believe that my suspicions were wrong. I should have went with my instincts. Maybe then, I could have approached this differently, and those 2 months that he was involved with her, wouldn't have left me in limbo and so tortured.<P>The affair ended when it was exposed, and we have been in the recovery process for 6-1/2 months. But, like I said, I wish I went with my instincts and didn't have such "blind" trust in him.<P>I'm glad that your H doesn't hang out in the bars anymore. There is no good reason for a married man to be going there alone. If he wants to go, you should be there with him.<BR> <BR>I hope that your H hasn't cheated on you. Can you possibly talk to him and tell him your concerns? Maybe he will understand why you are feeling so insecure. Let him know that you would rather be told the truth, regardless of how painful it can be.<P>Best of luck to you, and I hope that your suspicions are wrong....

Starla--<P>"Things are going really well now, he comes home when he says he's going to and he doesn't go anywhere without me and our baby. It's a very drastic change from how he used to be."<P>Okay...that's the good news! I'm very glad, for your sake to hear this. My H did the same thing. He had a rough time settling down into understanding that he needs to keep me informed, and do what he said he was going to do, WHEN he said he was going to do it! lol<P>We also had many fights over issues like this--him going to bars & concerts, not calling, or calling and not showing up until hours later anyway, and the double standards. I have wondered if my H cheated during that time. He's still quite adamant he did not. My instincts used to say oh yes he did, but now I'm able to step back and view everything a bit less emotionally. I don't think he did; he was running defensively away from our fights. Maybe your H is doing that too.<P>I do think it's a good idea for you to talk about it with your H. I'd suggest keeping it calm, even light if possible...the less emotionally charged a discussion is, the more likely he will listen and respond to you. Praise him highly for keeping you informed now, and mention gently that you did have lots of fears and concerns in the past. Hopefully, he'll let you get it out of your system by talking about it and provide you with with honest responses.<P><BR>

So if he did cheat, you would still want to move on to a fulfilling marriage and forgive him, right? Why not go ahead and forgive him, and move on to healing? That is hard, its exactly where I am at.<P>What are you doing differently now, as a result of your instincts? Does it help? Have you read all the material on the site - Basic Concepts, Surviving an Affair, His needs Her needs? It is a big help.<P>And no lovebusters is the best thing you can do.<BR>

Thanks for all the advice guys. It's nice to know that there are people that have been in similar situations, although it's also unfortunate.<BR>No Trust - I completely agree with you about married men spending a lot of time in bars. I think that occasionaly, it's fine, but not the daily visits that my husband was doing. In one week, he would often spend $150 at the bar. Crazy! <BR>Lucks - I thought that if I gave it some time that I wouldn't be so emotional about it, but the more time goes by, the more convinced I am that he cheated. When I look back and try to figure out if maybe I was just being paranoid, I see things that I didn't see before. Last week, I was going through some pictures and I found pictures of him and a lady that he worked with (not the one the rumor was about) at a friend of ours birthday party. I had not been invited because it was a spur of the moment, leave straight from work type of thing. I remember very specifically asking him who all ended up going, and her name wasn't on the list. So, seeing those pictures made me even more suspisious. <BR>I have talked to my husband a few different times and he just gets angry and walks away. I always wonder if it's because he feels guilty. <BR>Once, I wrote him a letter instead of talking to him, so that I wouldn't get upset and yell. In the letter, I wrote that I was confused and hurt and that I wanted to know the truth - Have you ever been unfaithful? And instead of talking about it, or writing me back even, he just took a red pen and wrote, "No. Have you?" at the top. So, I am unsure of where I should go from here. I know that he would never agree to counseling, so that's out too. It's really very frustrating.

TnT- That's just it - I'm not sure that I ever could forgive him if I found out that he cheated. And if I found out now, that would mean he lied to me in the beginning, and now, when our communication has gotten so much better. I don't know that I could handle that, or that I would want to. <BR>Even though our relationship has gotten better, there is still this issue that gets in the way every once in awhile. I think that if he gave me a chance to ask as many questions as I want, and he answered them to my satisfaction, then I could move on. But I have so many unanswered questions that I just can't get past my suspisions. And, he is unwilling to even talk about the subject. So, I feel stuck.

Starla - I hate to say this, but books on the subject all tell us to trust our gut instincts on this. And this has been confirmed a number of times by stories people have told on this forum. When we know someone as intimately as we do a husband or wife, I really do think we can "tell" when they're being unfaithful. I know MY W could tell in a minute is I was unfaithful, and I confirmed my own suspicions about HER infidelity by taking them seriously enough, despite her denials, to do a some snooping. (Sounds like, from the photo you discovered, that you've started this process as well.)<P>Also, from your description of your H's behavior, it does sound like you have a right to be suspicious. And I'm one of the ones here who believes we should act on such suspicions rather than taking a spouse's denials at face value. (Plus guilty people typically get very angry when accused of doing something they've actually done!)<P>It is very painful, I know, to be in a situation like yours. But I think, from my own experience, that it's MORE painful not to know the truth! Regards and blessings,<P>--Wex

OK, so say that I go with my gut instinct and believe that he cheated on me. What do I do next? I know that he will never admit it to me. The OW could be standing in front of us telling me everything, and he would still deny it. So, how do I go about repairing trust - if that's what I decide to do - when he continues to lie to me?

Hi Starla<P>If you are certain that he is cheating then start Plan A. Get totally involved with him and on the side TAP the PHONE. It is easy and cheap. Go to Radio Shack and inquire about a tape machine to tape phone conversations, tell them it is for business and that 1 party is aware. You need concrete evidence to open H up. Once you have H admitting to the affair then you two can start repairing.<P>Very few if any cheaters admitted it before being caught. As long as you have suspicions then it will drain your love bank to a point where you will just leave him. Catch it early enough and the rebuilding is easier.<P>One thing to start right away is work on your self confidence. Build an aura of strength and confidence. Act like you did when you first met your H. Do not get weak and do not follow him around for attention. Do not act depressed (so hard to do I know). Be strong. Start your own daily routine to show you are independent.<P>Living in suspicion SUCKS!. It eats away at your self respect and dignity, turns you into a useless human being and then who wants that. You need to be strong and do the opposite of what you feel like doing. Instead of waiting for him to come home, go out with your girlfriends. Join a gym. Do something with your time to build your self confidence.<P>Good Luck<BR>_____________________________________________<BR>"Better to die on my feet than live on my knees"

Starla,<BR>Cheaters deny, omit, and they lie. My H confessed after 8 months...then began to lie again throughout the next 7 months, swearing he would always try to tell me the truth. I'm just beginning to work through that. If your H cheated, he will have lied, he would have had to, unless he never spoke to you. TNT is right. You may never know. <P>Ways to explore how to go forward are 1) Decide what you would do in worst case scenario. Can you see yourself going on with your marriage? 2) Decide what the desire of your heart is for your marriage/life. Can you see your life without your H? You say his behavior has changed. Are the changes you see in him "good enough"?<P>Not knowing is awful, knowing he's betrayed you is also awful. <P>People can & do forgive. I have.

Starla....<P>What I can suggest is getting yourself a copy of the book, "Surviving the Affair." That book was like a bible and lifesaver to me. It helped me understand the concepts of an affair and how to deal with a spouse who had been unfaithful.<P>Also, if your H won't go to counseling, then try to go by yourself. There were many times that I had anxiety attacks, felt extremely insecure, resentful, etc....going to a therapist really helped me.<P>Keep in mind that people who have affairs lie. Lying and affairs go hand-in-hand. My H lied about his affair for 2 months. I guess he thought that he was trying to protect my feelings....but he was wrong. Finding out he had been lying to me only made it worse. After the affair was over, he still lied to hide details about the affair, but I found out anyway. Again, it made it even more worse.<P>Well, keep hanging in there. You sound like a very strong person. Get yourself a copy of that book and keep posting. There are many in this forum who can support you.<P>

Thank you guys for all your advice. I really want to make this marriage work, especially now that we have a son. You all have given me a lot to think about.

I am sure you have heard "Where there is smoke there is fire". That doesn't mean he cheated but it means that there was something there that people could see... even if only a passing attraction or your typical "office flirting".<P>Some of the advice has been right... people will NEVER admit they have cheated until they are caught and I think the reason for this is that they hold the belief you don't have enough information to be sure.<P>So you can stand there and accuse them of cheating as often or as fiercely as you like, they will reciprocate with making you feel completely guilty for even suspecting them.... then when they are caught out where is all that righteous indignation?<P>You have to ask yourself a few questions... ALL of you.<P>There are 2 factors :<P>A) Did I cheat?<BR>B) Would I be upset?<P>So we get 4 possibilities :<P>A-Yes, B-Yes<BR>------------<BR>Yes I cheated and Yes I would get upset for being accused... Why? Because your partner is close to knowing the truth... so you fight as hard as you can to keep it covered. You "think" by being angry it will make them back down or feel guilty. Ask yourself.. if this were you, would you act any differently?<P>a) Is my partner prideful?<BR> Yes - Could be telling the truth<BR> Find a way to approach this topic<BR> without getting pride involved<BR> No - Its likely they cheated<P>A-Yes, B-No<BR>-----------<BR>Yes I cheated but No I am not upset you accused me. This is a real nasty one. If I were to feel this way I would be very withdrawn or not really care about the relationship... or I would be a nasty person and so my partners feelings wouldn't matter. You should know your partner well enough to know if this is the case.<P>a) Does my partner have a nasty side?<BR> Yes - They probably cheated<BR> No - Are they trying to make it right?<BR> Yes - Could be telling the truth<BR> No - Probably cheated<P>A-No, B-Yes<BR>-----------<BR>I didn't cheat and I am upset they accused me of it. Obviously your reputation means a lot to you, you pride yourself not only on being faithful but by being "seen" as faithful, especially to your partner. Again this is something your partner would know deep down about you... "Is my H a prideful person?"<P>a) Is your partner prideful?<BR> Yes - Could be telling the truth<BR> Make up a situation where he was<BR> seen with someone. If he answers<BR> "Never happened" - Honest<BR> "It was just a lift" - Dishonest<BR> No - Why are they upset? Dig more<P>A-No, B-No<BR>----------<BR>I didn't cheat and I am not upset you accused me. In my opinion this is the mind of someone who truely cares. Ok they have been accused of something they didn't do... but it is more important to them their partner feels better than they were actually accused. These people would ask why their partner thought they had cheated and take steps to make sure those things didn't happen<P>a) Are they trying to make it up?<BR> Yes - Probably telling the truth<BR> No - Are they often unphased by things?<BR> Yes - Could be telling the truth<BR> No - Dig more, could be lying.<P><BR>I know its very mechanical but its something we each have to go through to work it out... believe it or not there is no such thing as "Illogical"... there is only our inability to see the logic the person is using that may be different to ours.

Blind Trust is a Fool's Trust.

Starla--<P>Some more thoughts on your situation. <P>1. You could ask the girl whom your H supposedly just gave a ride home what happened. (lovebuster, major display of lack of trust, places male ego heavily on the line. plus, she'd probably lie if there was more to it but her reactions may assist your gut instincts). Or, you could talk more with the woman who told you this at the party. That might be a bit less of a no-no, if you presented it like you trusted your husband, how on earth do rumors like that start anyway.<P>2. You could make a pact with yourself to just forget about past suspicions, and put all your efforts into enjoying your life NOW with H...since he's made such great strides, and forgive any POSSIBLE transgressions. Perhaps he DID have a wild side pre-baby. Hmm. Ok. So what would you do about it if you found out something now? <P>I understand (REALLY I do) your need for total honesty. But you may never find the key to a confession from him. What if something happened, but he's realized now how precious his life is with you and your baby and he's made a promise to himself that nothing like that would ever occur again. He might confess IF he felt your relationship was secure regardless of what happened, but that's a pretty big gamble. And you've apparently made your feelings known that affairs are unforgivable. I bet you're right, he won't budge.<P>3. Try, over time, having conversations about how happy you are that he's so honest with you, and how wonderful it is that he's letting you into his life/how much you appreciate it. DO tell him that your instincts (due to circumstances) in the past had you wondering about unfaithfulness. Describe to him your feelings, in a confiding, close way. Touch him during the convo. If you can talk about it while resting in the crook of his arm, he's in protective/comforting mode anyway...that might help. Try to keep accusations out of it, you're his FRIEND and he has no reason to withhold info.<P>Here's something that happened to us recently. My H is a bartender; I have an office job during the day (imagine our schedules, ack). H needs a feeling of freedom, I need dependability. We sometimes take 2 steps forward--one step back, in compromising! We recently agreed that during the week, he can spend time with co-workers (bouncers, managers) when he gets off work in the wee hours of the morning. They sometimes play pool after the bar has closed, or go out to a 24-hour restaurant for breakfast. I won't expect him home at any particular time. IN EXCHANGE for knowing that he will come home right after work, or call me and tell me specifically what's going on, on Friday and Saturday nights. Those are the 2 nights I am able to stay up later to spend time with him. Last Friday night, I woke up around 2am (allergies, ugh). At 3am, I realized hey, he's late. I knew where he probably was, so I drove over to the restaurant hang-out and waited in my car, parked next to his. In about 10 minutes, he came out, saying bye to his buds while noticing me sitting there. He came over, a bit anxious looking, to talk to me. Very sweetly, I might add, lol (BUSTED!). I remained calm. Asked him how his night was. He said "work was okay. I was just having breakfast with 2 of the guys, didn't have a supper break." (oh yes, I'd already scoped who was there) I was all concern, "well good, I'm glad you ate...matter of fact, since you made plans of your own, and *I'm* rather hungry myself now, I think I'll make a run to the grocery. See you at home soon." He got my underlying meaning, but I was so nice about it he didn't know what to say, other than, "ok, I love you, see you back at home soon." Later, we talked about it...he apologized. I said that wasn't necessary, I understood that he thought I was probably asleep and no harm done, but what concerned me was that maybe our agreement needed to be discussed again. He asked what I meant. I said well, you may need more time for yourself. How about you only need to come home early on Saturdays, I don't want you feeling 'hemmed-in.'" He said "no, I'll come home early on Fridays and Saturdays, those are 'our' nights." I said, "That's fine, but the point is, I thought that WAS the agreement, and you changed it." He started to protest with his justification of his actions--he knew I was tired, long night at work, just stopped in for a little while, etc. I said, "Now that's fine; I just want to know whether to plan on spending time with you or not." He got the point, and I was sooooo nice about it (not always the case!) that we survived the exchange without a full-blown argument. Progress!<P>I really think it all boils down to good communication, to solve anything.<P>------------------<BR>Laura<P>"I cannot care a little for you. I love you only just enough to love you all the way."~~Rod McKuen<BR>

I know exactly how you are feeling. Absolutely. It is all the same questions I was asking myself. And the feeling that maybe you are imagining and crazy - and being accused of it as well.<P>My husband adamantly denies. Denies completely. Claims I am crazy, suspicious, paranoid, don't trust anyone, has run around to all of our kids whining about my "MENtal instability", calls me obsessive, threatened his secretary never to talk to me, has physically abused me when I got close to some evidence, verbally abuses me because he needs to protect his lies. Has threatened to take me to a mental hospital, and told me he is documenting everything because if I accuse him one more time he will take my son away from me. Has told me to get out, has hung up on me, left me stranded in the middle of no where, called my co-workers to tell them I'm crazy, YOU NAME IT.<P>I could choose to be stuck like you, leave, or work on my marriage. I was at a point where I was so stuck - that I got on my knees and prayed for God to show me the truth or take me home. I have called my parents who are in their 70's in the middle of the night, so upset. Why? because that gut instinct is so strong. I finally decided that I would hire a PI and cash in my Roth account to do it. And I told him that I wasn't going to fight with him about this anymore, because I was sure some day the truth would come out.<P>He knew at that point I was serious, and would find out. I copied of parts of this site, and left them in his truck for him to see. I did everything I could to demand honesty, and never and still don't get it.<P>So one fine poster said to me one day, Decide. Decide if he cheated, and what would you do. I decided. <P>I decided that I would believe he cheated, and I am no longer stuck. I don't care what he says about the matter, that is what I believe, and now I know what I want to do.<P>I want to repair my marriage. The first thing I did was learn to bite my tongue. It is very hard, and I'm not perfect at it. But the changes I began to see in our relationship gave me the motivation to keep trying.<P>I am sure my husband ended the affair when he realized that I was going to find out. Pretty hard to find out if it happened in the past.<P>First thing I would do if I were you is stop the lovebusting. And then I would drop the subject, and learn all you can on how to restore your marriage. And if snooping isn't getting you towards discovery, stop. Decide he has, and what will you do.<P>Prayers are also the best thing for you, and if you need those don't be afraid to ask.<P>God Bless.<BR>Connie<BR>mncon99@yahoo.com

I think that I am just going to go with my instinct and believe that he did cheat on me in the past. <BR>There isn't any way that I would be able to ask any of his friends, or the girl that was supposedly the OW because we live 2,000 miles away now. So, I guess all I can do is move on. <BR>My H has changed since the baby and I don't believe that he would cheat on me now. So, I am going to try to put thoughts of his past unfaithfulness aside and work on our marriage. I guess that's all I can do. And since we have a baby, it's probably for the best. <BR>So, is it a long hard road, or does it get better after time?

TnT, I had no idea our situations were so similar. I guess I'm lucky, then, that my H is clueless, narcissistic, and a conflict-avoider...at least he doesn't give me verbal abuse, he'd rather drop the subject.<P>One question: Since you've decided that he HAS cheated, do you think it's still going on? My H is home every night, but he leaves for work at 6:30 AM, and I SUPPOSE it's possible he does something before work...but I doubt it. I try not to obsess about that. It's just that every time she comes back into my life it kicks up again. I was just wondering if your H's OW is still a factor in your life.