Right off the batt, I'm sure everyone will say no. But here's the deal: we were never happy together, and while I thought I could tough it out and get happy, she decided to cheat to make herself happy. Now, we've both decided we want to make a new start, but I can't shake the feeling that I will feel better; less angry; more even; and even renewed in my desire to rebuild the marriage (or build it from scratch, as is the situation here), if I at least go smooch someone else. I'm not talking about intercourse. I don't even have a desire to do that. But I know this nice person who I'm very comfortable with who I think it would be nice to kiss a little. What are the pros and cons here? Is it a huge mistake? Or is there a possible therapeutic edge to it, like I think there could be?

OH PLEASE!!!!<P>I guess at my ripe age of 38, this seems a little juvenile. I'm sorry. I need to get off my computer now because I'm having a lousy day (life) and am getting a really short wick!!<P>Sorry for the reem. God bless anyway.

Okay, Actus. I just got through answering your post about men's and women's feelings about affairs, and here's this post. Again, I know where you're coming from, man. I recognize the thoughts, though for me they were fleeting. Are you, like, my evil male twin, Skippy?<P>I know what you're thinking. I've been there. "I wish someone would like ME enough to have an affair with me. Spouse doesn't love me. I deserve love."<P>Now that you've voiced your desire, go look yourself in the mirror, picture yourself as the person who actually did anything with that hot little number you're talking about, and ask yourself if that is the the face you want to look at every day for the rest of your life.<P>Ask yourself how you would feel if your W had just "kissed a little."<P>Ask yourself if you think it would stop there, or if you both would keep on, tit for tat.<P>I can't think of any pros here, Actus. But I see a whole mess of cons. Rein yourself in, man. You can't change what she did, but you can be the best person YOU can be, and this is NOT going to help.<P>Now, calm down and find yourself a constructive plan of action, Actus! --HBC

According to my H, it is perfectly understandable the way you feel. But, two wrongs do not make right. period. no if ands buts about it.<P>It would be a case of tit for tat. this will never solve anything.<P>do what anyone who wants to cheat should do.<P>GET OUT OF THE CURRENT RELATIONSHIP FIRST!<P>mercy <BR>

You're right. Right off the bat, I'd say "No."<P>Thinking about it a little longer . . . I'd STILL say "No."<P>The thing to realize is that NOTHING justifies an affair. A revenge affair might quell you're desire for vengence, but it will NOT make anything better. It will, IMHO, make it worse.<P>I'm telling you, if you DO it, you WILL be sorry. I understand the feelings. I understand the desire to get back. But, as Mercy said, two wrongs don't make a right.<P>Be the bigger person here.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

Naw, you really don't.<P>Think again, ok?<P>Lori

this is mercys H<BR> IF you hurt from what she does that tells alot, help her out don't join her <BR> love goes above the call of duty and I am speaking from what I know.<BR> GOD loves you share it with your wife any time she will let you. it is hard but it works. BE there for her and she will come back to you it takes time it didnt happen in one day and it will not fix in one day.<P>GOD BLESS<BR> mercys H <p>[This message has been edited by mercy (edited April 10, 2000).]

I read you post, but I really didn't have to. All I needed was the caption.<P>If you have to use the word "cheat" then there is no way you should do it. My W has cheated on me both with me not knowing and with me knowing and it is the cruelest thing anyone could do to a spouse.<P>Wait until the marriage is settled or wait beyond that because many time divorced couples can get back together. Your W may at anytime come around to notion that she wants to work on her marriage. Why would you spoil that opportunity?<P>J W<BR>

to add what everyone else said...<P>If you do cheat, you'll also lose the moral high-ground. Right now, you are in a position to say "see what my wife did". If you go do the same, well, you've just made it easier for her to justify what she did and alot less likely that anyone is going to feel real sorry for you. My ex had a revenge affair, and I can't say it phased me all that much. I think it really pissed him off that I didn't go into hysterics like he did. I thought it was pretty stupid. It took a little while, but he did finally find something that would hurt me alot, and that was to leave me less than a week after I found out my mom was diagnosed with cancer. So, in the end all he did was prove that he was weak, and a hypocrite, which is what I thought before I cheated. Now that we are divorced, I get to say he cheated too, which makes my life a little easier. <P>This is your chance to prove you are the bigger man. don't blow it.

I don't think this is about losing the "moral high ground" but more about your own self respect. It's not a game where one person vies with another to see whose better, this is your marriage and when you're trying to fix the marriage problems, you certainly don't want to add a whole host of new ones. You will not respect yourself after doing this, believe me. It will take a long time to come to terms with your actions. My husband was unfaithful to me after my affair and he is still trying to forgive himself. <P>IMO, I think you need to focus on going forward with your wife and work on those issues that both of you are struggling with, together. I don't think evening out the score will do anything but exacerbate the problems you have already. This would be like adding gasoline to the fire, and really doing a number on your own self respect, I can't stress that enough.

This is to THESTUDENT, who posted a couple of lines above this. First of all, I've found in reading these posts, that when the betrayer decides to post something, it's almost always off the mark. Bottom line, unless you've been cheated on, without provocation (meaning your spouse didn't cheat on you first) you can NEVER understand what it's like to be betrayed. I've had suicides in my family, and though it's almost embarassing to say so, this has hurt me worse. So when you try to evoke some sympathy by telling us your husband left a week after your mother got cancer, you tell me one thing: You never really felt sorry. You never really understood what you did to your husband. And that's why he never forgave you. There's just no comparison between what he did, and what you did. None. Bottome line, and I know this isn't the popular thing to say, but I think it's true: YOU CANNOT CHEAT ON YOUR SPOUSE! That's just it. I don't care if your husband is beating the hell out of you every hour on the hour. You can't cheat. I seriously think revenge cheating is different. It's almost like you've been given license. And as for losing the upper hand. . .Hell, I don't want to see who can say they are on the higher of the two high roads, all I want is to feel better. Selfish? No, I don't think so. Marriage is supposed to bring you your greatest joy. When your spouse uses it as a weapon to bring about your greatest sadness, I think all bets are off.

Dear ActusReus: It sounds like you are full of anger. I would suggest before you involve someone else in your quest to feel better, that you get some help for that anger. Picture this, you involve this other person, they fall in love with you thinking that you love them too, but you don't, it's just your rebound reaction. You have not only hurt your spouse, but this other person as well. Do you think it's fair to hurt this other individual because of your circumstances? Can you honestly say that this individual is not going to feel strongly for you? Is your love for your spouse totally gone? Are you ready to let your spouse go? Are you ready for a divorce? Remember what you do has a rippling effect as you have already experienced from your spouse's actions. If you feel the marriage is over and you want to move on, then by all means move on, but don't drag anyone down in the process. Communicate your intentions to your spouse so they have a chance to work with you or prepare for their future. You both need to look at what went wrong in the marriage. In regards to the husband beating the wife, I guarantee you in my case and my case only, the husband(after the first time) would be missing. I hope that is not what you do.

Actus:<P>Please tell me exactly how a revenge affair is different. Is it because your motives are different? Is it because it's only fair? Why exactly IS it different.<P>There is NO such thing as a license to cheat. If you and your wife want to get into the "swinging" life, or if you married for convenience and have an understanding that you will see other people, then fine.<P>However, as soon as you make a decision to betray your wife, <I>regardless of the motive</I> you've crossed the line.<P>I don't think TheStudent intended to set you off by her reply. I believe she was attempting to show you that, right now, you're in a less culpable place than your wife.<P>Y'all may not have been happy, but at least you didn't take that forbidden step of cheating. If you decide to have a revenge affair, you WILL lose that "edge." (I hate using that word, because it's not accurate, but it's the best I can come up with right now.)<P>I think The Student was trying to show you that you will probably do MORE harm than good by having a revenge affair because it will lower you in your wife's eyes. If she's sorry for what she's done, then a revenge affair will only serve to lessen her respect for YOU.<P>Besides, do you REALLY want to drag a third person into your marriage? Will you be using this other person simply for sex and to make your wife upset? If so, you better make sure this third person doesn't mind being used that way.<P>Please, try not to take offense at what's said here. We all have the best of intentions for you. We all are speaking from the voice of experience when it comes to affairs.<P>I, for one, can CERTAINLY unerstand WHY you feel this way. I wanted to have a revenge affair too. I wanted to hurt her the way she hurt me. But, in the end, I could never bring myself to do it, because I wouldn't want ANYONE to have to go through that kind of pain, and when it comes down to it, I especially don't want HER to feel that pain because I love her.<P>If you want to rebuild your marriage, you'll have a MUCH better start on it if you DON'T have a revenge affair.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

Actus, stay on the high road. <BR>The mere fact that you are asking if one should means you know what you should NOT be doing! <BR>Might feel good for a minute or two, but the years of pain? And you are going out to look for it? Put the energy in your marriage, spend the time with yuor wife and the rewards will be greater than you imagined!!! Follow Plan A. (((hugs))) cl<p>[This message has been edited by cl (edited April 11, 2000).]

Actus,<P>If you would read some of The Students posts you would see that she is both the betrayed and the betrayer. So she has been in the position you are in. A revenge affair is only going to make you feel better for a few minutes, if that. Believe me, if we thought that would make our marriages better, I'm sure we all would have done it! We do know how you feel. <P>Mitzi

Hi.<P>I noticed in your profile that you're from Moscow, ID...interesting place.<P>Nope...you don't have a license to cheat.<P>Cheating sounds good now, but in the morning, you won't feel so great. If you choose to cheat on your wife, regardless of your situation, you won't be able to look yourself in the eye for a very, very long time.<P>Yes, I know you're angry. Yes, I know that you are probably starved for affection and that smooching is sounding really great right now. <P>BUT...<P>Don't even go there.<P>Jill<P> I accidentally hit "print" (no clue how I did that...must be late). So, now I will have SEVEN pages of this thread at my very fingertips...how irritating...LOL <p>[This message has been edited by Jill (edited April 12, 2000).]

You said in your earlier post that your marriage is suppose to make you happy. I don't think you are right about that. Your wife is not responsible for making you happy. You are responsibe for your own happiness.<P>That is not to say that you should not find joy in being married. But it does mean that you are responsible for working to improve your marriage if it goes sour to make it a happy marraige again.<P>There is no justification for cheating. It is hurtful and destructive. You have a choice here. Dedicate yourself to improving your marriage with your wife or end your marriage. There are no other options.<P>Acacai

AR,<P>My first husband cheated on me with over 20 women. I didn't cheat on him. I do know what it is like. The reason why you believe that betrayers responses are off the mark is because you only listen to what betrayed say. You have your own filter. I haven't said anything different than other betrayed have said. However, I do like to make a point of highlighting the hypocrisy of so-called betrayed who are looking for an excuse for their own behavior. Since I've been on both sides, I feel very capable of being objective.<P>FYI,<BR>I was very sorry for my infidelity. I confessed voluntarily and apologized to him everyday for a year. Was willing to quit school and did everything he asked and more.<BR>He told me I should kill myself because I was a worthless slut, damaged goods, and a mutilation. Said this, and similar things more than a few times, like on a weekly basis for a year. He waited, and chose the exact right time to leave when it would hurt me the most. He thought having a revenge affair would hurt me, but it didn't, because I'd been through it before and already knew it wasn't MY problem. Unlike him, I did not plot and scheme to hurt him, believe it or not. What I did, I did out of weakness and ignorance. Before my affair, I honestly thought he hated me and would be happy to be rid of me. Still no excuse, though. I could have just divorced him. What my ex did seemed cold, calculated, and malicious. So when you ask the question about having a revenge affair, it does appear to me to be the same. That is why I'm being so hard on you.<P>So after a year of grueling abuse by him after my confession, and the same before my affair. I said previously that I don't feel sorry for him now, but rethinking, I beleive I do. We had an opportunity to learn from my bad choices and make our marriage stronger and better than before. Lots of people on this website have done just that. However, he chose differently. That is his perogative, but I think he will find that finding someone new is no guarantee that he will not be hurt at some point. It is how each person deals with the pain of life, and learns from their choices that makes the difference.<P>I do respect that you feel like sexual betrayal is the worst thing that can happen to you. I used to feel the same way until worse things happened to me.<P>You also answered your own question. Basically, it doesn't matter what the other person does, there is no excuse for cheating. <P>I understand very much how my ex felt, because it had been done to me before. I never thought myself capable of doing such a thing, yet it happened. Fear, pain, ignorance, add it all up and what do you get? Self-destructive behavior. Infidelity, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, violence. It is all the same. A cry for help from a desperate person. I came very close to following my ex's advice (killing myself, that is) because of my guilt. Had the gun loaded, ready to go. I don't expect your sympathy or your pity, though. I do hope you will reconsider before jumping to conclusions about all betrayers... <P>I know this is hard for you. Probably the hardest thing you've ever had to face. What I learned from my first husband's infidelity is that his decision was not a reflection of me or my worthiness. Albeit, there are probably things you could have done differently before your wife cheated, but it was still her decision. You have a choice now too. You can do something positive and constructive that might lead to an improved marriage, or you can go into destruct mode. Whether you decide to divorce or not, you need to accept responsibility for your part in the marriage.<P>Lonestar,<BR>How's it going? Thanks for seeing through my abrupt manner. <P>Mitzi,<BR>thank you too for remembering...<P>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited April 12, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited April 12, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ActusReus:<BR><B>Right off the batt, I'm sure everyone will say no. But here's the deal: we were never happy together, and while I thought I could tough it out and get happy, she decided to cheat to make herself happy. Now, we've both decided we want to make a new start, but I can't shake the feeling that I will feel better; less angry; more even; and even renewed in my desire to rebuild the marriage (or build it from scratch, as is the situation here), if I at least go smooch someone else. I'm not talking about intercourse. I don't even have a desire to do that. But I know this nice person who I'm very comfortable with who I think it would be nice to kiss a little. What are the pros and cons here? Is it a huge mistake? Or is there a possible therapeutic edge to it, like I think there could be?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The UNEQUIVOCAL ANSWER IS <B>NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!</B>. Take it from someone who has endured 8 affairs. Revenge is not the way to go. Besides revenge belongs to God. The best thing to do is to love your W the way God wants you to love your W. You will feel much better if you treat her with kindness because it is like heaping hot coals on her head. She will either succumb to God's love which is manifested through you or get farther away from Him. You can't make her chose to get closer to Him<P><P>------------------<BR><B><I>God Bless,<BR>Rob</I></B><BR> regilmor@swbell.net

Dear Actus Reus, <P>NO you're not justified. This is a messy solution you want to use. The cure could be worse than the disease (meaning the pain). The guilt is ongoing. Now, on to the OP. Why would you drag someone you cared about into the middle of your kitty litter box of a marriage, use her to feel better and satisfy some temporary needs and (maybe) get back at your wife for hurting you? UH-UH, no, you'll give lawyers a bad name.<P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess