I am in major need of help and some answers here. This will be a little long as I am completely new here and need to give some back-ground info. Please wade through it if you can and help me out even if you think it isn't what I'd want to hear.<P>My husband and I have been married 3 years. I am 23 and he is 29. We have a 2-year-old son. Our marriage was rushed because of pregnancy although we did love each other very much and he had asked me to marry him before the pregnancy. I stayed at home with our child and never went to college as a result. He was through with school and had a degree which enabled him to easily take care of us and allow me to stay at home. Things were great up until the last year, when we began to distance from each other. Because of our son, we rarely if ever did anything together (one of us had to stay with the baby), and due to a myriad of little incompatibilities we bagan to treat each other more as roommates than as lovers or even friends. We fought quite often and barely saw each other. He would go out with people from work and stay out until 5-6am at least twice a week at a woman from work's house (he insists her male roommate was always with them and that she wasn't interested in him - later I find out that she asked him to sleep with her). I went out with my only female friend to the bars and dancing regularly. <P>Eventually we realized we were miserable together and that we didn't want that kind of environment for our son in the long run. We decided mutually on a divorce and he moved out of our home. Since he worked and the divorce was amicable, I went to the lawyer alone to file. The lawyer drew up the standard papers, and informed us of the Texas state law that requires a 60-day waiting period before the divorce would be considered final.<P>During the first few days of legal separation my H and I discussed over again the reasons for our divorce and he ended up telling me that I had failed him in his opinion as a wife - that I didn't live up to my end of the bargain. He felt that I didn't keep the house up enough, didn't cook enough, didn't have sex with him enough (if any woman out there is able to have sex with a H that barely talks to her otherwise please let me know - I need the secret), and didn't do a good job as a mother. This hurt me terribly as I believed I was doing my best - especially where my son was concerned. I felt rejected, hurt and confused. In the meantime he was doing and saying things that a husband who still loves his wife would do - more so than he had ever done the entire time we were married (which I realize wasn't THAT long but that isn't the point). He bought me things (clothes, flowers) on a daily basis, spoke of dating exclusively once the divorce was final ( which is just plain weird), and just generally tried to move closer to me rather than separate himself from me as he should have been doing if he truly wanted the divorce for which we had just filed.<P>In the midst of my confusion and feelings of hurt and rejection I began to move closer to the ex that I was with before I met my husband. Over the next 30 days or so of our legal separation I ended up being with him sexually one time and regretted it immediately - not because I felt that I had cheated on my H but because I was not ready for that sort of thing and felt cheap in general. Afterwards my ex and I weren't sure what was going to happen but we agreed to just take it much more slowly and do things one day at a time.<P>45 days into the 60-day waiting period my husband revealed to me that he did not want to go completely through with the divorce and that he wanted me to call the lawyer and call it off if I was willing. We talked at length about what we were going to do to make the marriage work, etc - and agreed that we should see a counselor. I agreed to call off the divorce and commit myself to working through our problems as long as he was willing. In addition he began to ask me questions about my activities while we were separated and I lied to him telling him that nothing had gone on as I felt that it really was none of his business. I feel that we had ended the marriage when we filed the papers, and he had moved out which signaled the start of new lives. He didn't believe me because he knew that I had been speaking to my ex again, and felt that something must have gone on.<P>He proceeded to install a secret key logger program on our home computer that logged every keystroke I made so that he could find out what I was writing to other people and get my e-mail passwords undetected by me. Upon our reconciliation I had agreed never to contact my ex again and to solidify it for me I wrote the ex an e-mail stating that I was sorry - that I knew we had started something while my H and I were divorcing, that I had begun to have feelings for him again, but that I had decided it was more important to keep my family together if I could. It was an e-mail of finality that said I was not going to be speaking, e-mailing, or seeing him ever again. Of course my H was now able to read this because of the nice little program on my computer, and he accused me of lying to him about what had happened between my ex and I while we were separated, as well as lying about the fact that I said I would never contact him. Never mind that the purpose of the e-mail was to state exactly that. I still denied that anything happened between us, still feeling that he didn't need to know because it had happened during our divorce. He continued to disbelieve and finally resorted to getting into my e-mail account and e-mailing my ex posing as me in order to get the info he wanted out of him (which was that I had indeed had sex with him).<P>He is now treating me like a leper although he is continuing to go to counseling (we are only on our 2nd session). He is behaving as if I've betrayed him in the worst way and as if I've hurt him monumentally with what I've done. He can't stop asking detailed questions about the experience I had with the ex and he continually makes cutting remarks and has even said that I am a slut. I am trying but I just don't see his point of view. I feel that he hurt himself by going to the ends of the earth (I feel his behavior was also a little psychotic) to find out the info that is hurting him so badly. I feel that I did not commit adultery but I am having trouble finding info that tells me one way or another. I AM upset about what happened but not for the reasons he wants me to be. He wants me to beg his forgiveness for my infidelity and for hurting him but I feel he hurt himself and I don't feel I've committed an infidelity. I am so confused and I'm at the end of my rope. I am miserable and want out so badly but I feel obligated to try to get through this. I can't even feel my love for him anymore.<P>Did I commit adultery? Should I be begging his forgiveness and I just don't get it? Can anyone help me with this. Please just tell me what you all think he's driving me crazy. Thanks for reading if you got through it - and pray for us please!

Monen,<P>Welcome to the Marriage Builders board, <B>NSR</B>, who is usually greeting newcomers is currently vacationing, but you can find his general welcome by following the link <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders</A>.<BR>In this welcome you will find a lot of links to relevant information about the Marriage Builders concepts, please read as much as you can here and participate in the discussion forums where you will find a lot of support from people who have gone through infidelity and marriage crisis in general, and who will be able to provide you with lots of information, support and help to get on with your marriage.<P>What happened in your marriage is unfortunately not al that uncommon, having kids often leads to spouses getting estranged from each other, as all the attention goes to the kids and the parents forget to spend enough time together. <BR>The scenario you described could have been taken from our marriage before our infidelity crisis, where we simply didn't have the surplus energy and enough motivation to meet each others needs and ended up spending more and more time by ourselves, and when we were finally together we usually got into fights, basically withdrawing more and more from each other. We do get along much better these days, after having recommitted to our marriage and found solutions (babysitter) for our two kids 18 mos and 3 yrs, so that at least a couple of times a month we can go out and spend an evening as adults without the stress of the kids.<P>As to the affair with the ex, there are several opinions on this board as to whether it constitutes infidelity or not, but mostly the consensus seems to be that the effect is pretty much the same as infidelity if the separated spouses try to move back together, and must be dealt with in the same manner. <BR>What probably upset your H, was that he found out about this on his own, and you hadn't told him when he asked. I suggest that you read the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Four Rules for a Successful Marriage</A> found on this site. Which will address some of the issues that seems to cast a cloud on your marriage.<BR>I don't think that you should be begging his forgiveness, instead you should take a long talk about your marriage, and where each of you strayed from the other, and finding ways to get closer to each other again, try to do so in an non-lovebusting environment, where you each listen to the other's points and discuss some of the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html" TARGET=_blank>Basic concepts of the Marriage Builders philosophy</A>. <BR>After all it took two people to get your marriage to the state it was when you separated, and it will take both of you to commit to rebuilding your marriage again.<BR>But the rewards of a rebuilt marriage can be enourmous, and the marriage can be even better than it has ever been, ours and other's in recovery can testify this. But it takes time and effort from both of you, and this is where the Marriage Builders Concepts is a great help, since they provides a framework that will give your marriage the best chance of surviving and blossom.<P>I pray for you and your family and for the restoration of your marriage.<BR>

Just remembered this thread that you might find relevant:<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/002263.html" TARGET=_blank>Reply to; Is it an afair if...</A><BR>

The discussion of infidelity during divorce is a tough one. I would suppose that talking with a pastor or your counselor would be the best. It is going to be difficult to change his or your mind about such an emotionally charged subject. There are some things that you have to settle within yourself. Do you have answers to the following questions?<BR>Why do you say you feel 'obligated to get through this'?<BR>Do you not love him anymore?<BR>How do you feel about your ex now?<BR>What about the incident hurt you so much?<BR>You need to explore your answers to these questions and get your feelings sorted out about what you really see happening 6 months or 1 year from now.<BR>Good luck and keep posting if you need help.

Monen:<P>It could be that what you did while you were separated doesn't concern your husband as much as the fact that you didn't disclose it to him when you two decided to get back together.<P>Instead of focusing on whether or not you're in the right or in the wrong about sleeping with your ex while separated, why not try apologizing to your husband for hurting him and lying to him? <P>Good luck! --HBC

If you look at the poll today - 87% said yes!<BR>I doubt that helps you but it is something.

Preparing to be tarred and feathered here....<P>I have to say that I don't think it should be considered infidelity. You truly believed that you were divorcing. I guess it depends on whether or not you want to look at it from a legal standpoint....<P>Sure... he wants you to beg his forgiveness. By the way he is acting it sounds to me like he is going to milk it for all it's worth considering the name calling... etc. As long as you're the bad guy, he has all the control. <P>No, you didn't tell him what you did while you were seperated. And I'm sure that he is upset because you hid it from him, that much is obvious. But has he confessed all about his temporary freedom? I don't think anything that either of you did during that time frame should be considered critical...<P>Sure.. go ahead and apologize to him for hiding it from him. I hope it works... I guess it depends on what you are willing to live with....

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lacee:<BR><snip> You truly believed that you were divorcing. I guess it depends on whether or not you want to look at it from a legal standpoint....<snip><P>I guess it depends on whether or not you want to look at it from a moral standpoint.... (legalism is the easy way to justify immoral behavior)<P><snip>sounds to me like he is going to milk it for all it's worth considering the name calling... etc. <snip><BR>Milk it? Have you considered the fact that he may truely love her and be feeling the pain of her infidelity? <P><snip>But has he confessed all about his temporary freedom? I don't think anything that either of you did during that time frame should be considered critical...<snip><BR>Interesting, so the theory is 'what about what he did?'. That is an interesting way to bring about healing - attack the accusor. And to some people seperation doesn't mean 'temporary freedom'. If you truely believe that you are divorcing at least have enough repect and couth to wait the 60 days before jumping in the sack with your next lover.<P><snip>I guess it depends on what you are willing to live with<snip><BR>Willing to live with? That is an interesting way of putting marriage - what are willing to tolerate.<P>These are interesting comments. Def. stuff to think about.<P>

Lacee:<P>FYI, I agree with you for the most part. I really think the main issue here is the complete honesty while they were married. (That's one of the MB concepts, but I don't know where it is right now.) And I agree that he's not being too nice about it, but I can maybe cut him some slack because he's in pain, though I think he would benefit from a few lessons on how to communicate negative feelings.<P>So if y'all want to get out the tar and feathers, that's fine, but make sure you have enough to go around.<P>--HBC

The question that some of these feeling are riding on is the question of - is the time we (as people) title 'separation' still marriage? If 'seperation' means married but living apart then wife owes husband apology for infidelity. If 'seperation' means not married waiting for legal stuff to be sorted out then wife owes husband nothing. If you choose the former then apologies and some understanding are in order - do it, eat a little crow and move on. If you choose the later then when you get back together you should convince him to get remarried to you. And in dealing with this it begs the question when is marriage marriage? When the feelings are sufficient? When you have a piece of paper? The opposite should hold true - when is a marriage not a marriage? When the feelings are not sufficient? When you are not holding that paper anymore? We all have experienced times when we didn't feel married to our husbands but does that make us divorced? I am afraid you can't have your cake and eat it too. There are waiting periods in each state for just such reasons. You were not divorced according to the state for 15 more days. Surely you could have waited 15 days.<P>Now for the husband. I would normally give him some time to accept, come to grips and make it past infidelity (provided wife apologizes). But cutting remarks and hatefull reactions are not what brings healing and closeness. He needs to find some other way of dealing with his anger and frustration. Encourage him to get some counseling and talk things out. Agree to let him vent his pain or uncertainty but you should both agree to cut it off if the venting turns angry or hateful. Time to step down from soapbox. Comments?

Well, I'm not sure what to say about this. It seems like neither you nor your H made yourselves clear about what the "rules" were after the separation. <P>Personally, I would not beat yourself up too much over this. Your H is as much at fault as anyone here. My guess is that he hasn't been squeaky clean either. My ex also verbally abused me terribly after my confession, but all the while was planning a week long vacation with a woman he worked with. Friggin' hypocrite.<P>I agree with Lacee that your H seems to be "milking" this. What about your feelings? There is absolutely one thing I've learned through all of my experience, and that is that each of us are responsible for our own actions. What you did certainly did not help things, but your H is playing a part in this too, and also not helping matters. As long as he is beating you up over this (literally or figuratively) he doesn't have to concentrate on the things he is doing that are hurting the relationship. Nothing you have done justifies name calling, degrading actions on the part of your H. <P>His actions behind your back seem pretty sinister to me, as well. What was his point? Was it the point to dredge up your secrets so that he can have something to hurt you with? Or did he do it so that you can restore your marriage? Personally, I think it is the first answer. Maybe he wants some extra leverage in a future divorce (either emotional or financial). My ex-H worked it to the hilt, while doing some of the same things he accused me of behind my back.

Well thanks everyone so far for your replies, some of them have been helpful but I'm afraid that those responses by "thenewbie" have been less so considering I'm 99.8% sure that they are from none other than my husband (who I've told you still monitors everything that I do on the computer as if he's entitled to all things). I say this because this person also registered today, with NO personal info and is only posting on MY thread.<P>In response to some of the other replies, I have apologized to my husband for keeping things from him and for the fact that he's hurt by what happened while we were separated. However this was not a case in which we filed for separation (with a chance for reconciliation), it was a case in which we filed for flat out DIVORCE and I went my way assuming my marriage was over. This hurt me considerably and I made mistakes during the waiting period that I wish hadn't happened not because I felt I was cheating but because I felt it was too soon and that I had sold myself short as far as giving it away is concerned.<P>I do love my husband but because of his viewpoint on this matter and because of the way he has treated me as a result I feel very distant from him and it's virtually impossible to feel that love. I do feel that it would be hurtful to learn this information and that it may be hard to be close with me again because of it - however he insists on being extremely upset with me for what I feel are the wrong reasons.<P>I don't know how to get past this short of abandoning my feelings on the issue and just rolling over under his viewpoint. I suppose the counselor will help but I'm not sure how.<P>Thanks for your further comments on the issue if you have them I do check all the time.<P>For "thenewbie": If, by some miracle, you are NOT my husband I apologize but I'm not seeing that anytime soon.

It appears to me that people that post have (maybe not purposfully) def. slants to their advice. If the advice is 'don't worry about it' you find that often it comes from someone who cheated on her husband (or visa versa). On the other hand if the advice is 'do worry about it' it often comes from someone that hasn't cheated. If the advice is 'your husband is milking it' then it is from someone whose husband milked it. I don't recall her giving a time frame. Did this happen a year ago? If so then the husband is milking it. If it happened last month then the husband is not milking it. Let us try to give sound, thought out advice and not just 'two cents worth' based on your situation. I have found that if you can find someone that did the bad thing like you did then it isn't as bad. What we need to do is try to stay away from that. If it is wrong then say it is wrong and give advice on how to make it right. Don't give advice like - I bet he isn't crystal clean. That doesn't solve the problem - it would only exacerbate it. If you feel that he did wrong then look for it. If it doesn't matter to you then don't look for it. But if you want to stay with him then find an amiable solution - don't just act like a turtle a start chanting 'what about MY feelings'<BR>Now as far as sinister actions - what lengths would you go to find out if someone is lying to you? Do you go through your childrens rooms? They would consider that sinister but you would not - because the truth will help more then the lies. Now if he threatened you or went through your parents garbage or got a drivers license in your name that would cross the line. But posing as you to your lover to get the truth -please. Sinister? I wouldn't like it either if I were cheating and wanted to keep it quiet. Where do people stand on private investigators? Are they sinister?

Thank you to both of you HBC and thenewbie. <BR>It is interesting to me to hear the different types of opinion in a situation like this. It helps me to learn.... <BR>Yes... I have plenty of comments or you may rather call them opinions... First a definition... <P>sep*a*rate [1] (verb) -rat*ed; -rat*ing<BR>verb transitive<BR>First appeared 15th Century<P> 1 a : to set or keep apart : DISCONNECT, SEVER<BR>verb intransitive<BR> 1 : to become divided or detached<BR> 2 a : to sever an association : WITHDRAW<BR> b : to cease to live together as a married couple<BR> 3 : to go in different directions<BR> 4 : to become isolated from a mixture<P>Obviously, this is what happened. This is what was understood between the two of them. And then... H decides that he doesn't want to anymore (after she has been with ex) and W is in a mess because she had no hope at that time for reconciliation with her H.<P>As far as your response to my saying he was milking it.. I dont believe that she was cheating on him and neither did she believe it at the time. Yes, I am sure that he is hurt by it... but... he needs to look at her side of things... <P>You call what she did "Immoral behavior." You scrutinize her for being with someone else, during their separation. Something that she has already admitted that she wasn't ready for. A moment of weakness... someone to reach out to... someone who was most likely being caring toward her...<P>She said she regretted it... what more do you want? What more does her H want? Should she stand up in public and announce it to the world? Should she wear a scarlet letter? NO! She was doing nothing wrong at the time. Now... suddenly it becomes wrong because H wants to get back together. You cannot put blame on anyone in this situation...<P>Her H's "Cutting remarks and hateful reactions" are just what I am referring to when I say... "how much she is willing to live with." and I was referring that to mean during this time reconciliation... YES! YES! YES! He needs counceling... and so does she! <P>Now, besides working on their marriage, she has to deal with his verbal abuse and if you think that is an easy thing to get over... you are wrong! And FYI, it is sometimes the accusor who is accusing because of guilt of their own. Lord knows I've caught myself doing the same thing!<P>H needs to take a step back and look at the overall picture. Is he going to throw this in her face every time they have an argument for the rest of her life? Is he going to use this as amunition against her later... in a pending divorce situation, if that were to happen?<P>You know... I read her original post again.. and it seems to me that he was blaming her for everything wrong in the marriage. Housekeeping, motherhood, etc... But then he stays at another womans house over night many times? (How many women here would allow that?) But yet, everything is blamed on her.<P>Then there is the fact that he wants to date her? Not be married... but date her when they divorce? Not committal tendencies? That's what it says to me. Now if that's not having your cake and eating it too, I don't know what is!<P>Now, she is resenting him for the way he is treating her and she is totally confused. <BR>I feel badly for her, she is obviously in a mess that is going to take a lot of talking and counceling to work out. But he should NOT be taking this out on her. He needs to vent to the councelor...<P>I agree that sometimes it is well worth it to eat a little crow.... But it seems as if he wants her to eat it every single meal...<P><p>[This message has been edited by Lacee (edited May 01, 2000).]

Well<BR>She knows me too well - only 3 years and she recognizes my style. Busted. After some discussion with her I will refrain from posting and reading. She has stated that she needs a place to figure things out without me horning in. This is true and I will give her space.<BR>But, I do love debate and especially about emotionally incendiary subjects like this one. Of course I do have an opinion - we all know it by now. But I will miss the discussion/debate - I don't get much of this type of stimulus at work. Thank you for keeping my day interesting with your thoughts and comments. Good luck to you all and especially my lovely wife - I hope that you find the support that you need to make it through our difficult time. Hopefullly I will find mine as well.

Well.... well..... well... what a twisted little thread this has turned into.<P>I suggest that you BOTH stay here... I think you each need to get advice from others that have been through what you are going through... (Although I do understand Monen's need for her space)<P>I am stepping back out of this one... although that doesn't change my opinions ONE bit...<P>The point here is that you "thenewbie" need this forum as much as "Monen." You can pretend not to be here all you want. But hopefully you will learn from others here and apply it towards working out your marriage. I suspect that you will continue to be a "Lurkie-lew" as so many others here are.... <P>I had a question in my last response... it was...."I wonder if the roles were reversed, would you still feel the same? H being with OW during the separation?" <P>Then.... I read your profile to see what was going on with you... it said you were female. So I went in and edited my post and deleted that question. I guess my intuition was right on after all. I did feel that you were male. <P>I hope that you two can come to an agreement somewhere and try to be openminded and sincere about working out your marriage. Good luck to you... BOTH of you...

Newbie,<P>I just read the post where you confessed to being Monen's H. Ick. That is all I have to say. What you are doing is very, very damaging. Do you care? Or do you just want to hurt someone? <BR> <BR>Monen,<BR>I hope you guys can figure this out. There is alot more I can say, but I don't want to add fuel to the fire.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited May 01, 2000).]

I've been reading and posting for well over a year, but mostly just reading. Some of the most interesting threads, in my opinion, were those in which both the betrayed and the betrayer took part, offering their own perspectives on what happened and what needed to happen to make things right again.<P>I hope that BOTH of you will continue to use this forum to help in your recovery. I only wish my wife had been willing to participate back when we were going through our own trials. Sometimes I printed out threads I wanted her to see, but I'm sure she would have gotten so much more by becoming an active participant. We've now been divorced for nearly a year now -- I may have learned a lot from my reading and the discussion here, but it did nothing to save my marriage. Good luck to both of you.

Newbie & Monen,<P>It's good that you are both here, though it might complicate somethings, I believe that it is the best for your marriage to become successful. I have a couple of things that I would like to say to both of you, and I hope that you won't take offense to any of them, since they are meant to help.<P>Newbie,<P>I understand parts of where you're coming from, it's not easy to come to grasp with your wife having been intimate with another person, but remember that you left her little doubt that the marriage was over. This was a mistake, but an honest one, and one that she's even sorry for. However, her "affair" with the ex isn't so much a problem with infidelity, but a problem with getting intimately involved with someone else too soon, in other words a rebound relationship.<P>So, IMHO, you have very little reason to use this affair to put a guilt trip on your wife and make her suffering even worse. Instead you should be more supportive of your wife, that you obviously want back. But if you want her back, you should approach this differently...<P>Back off with the controlling behaviour, do not try to make your wife stay with you out of fear or plain bullying her. But do it with love and respect! And most important of all be HONEST with your wife, sure she slipped when she wasn't honest with you when asked whether she was seeing someone while you were separated, but you haven't been completely honest with her either. You posing in her thread as someone else trying to seem like you're giving objective advice about your situation -- not just dishonest<BR>but also disrespectful.<P>Furthermore, yes I do think that there is little need for privacy in a marriage, especially a marriage in problems, there is also little need for powerplay and abusive behavior... You seem to want to know what your wife is doing on the computer, but are you allowing her to check what you're doing on the computer? I doubt it but I might be wrong. And nobody likes to live as if they are being constantly under surveillance as if they lived in a "Police State", which is definitely a lovebuster of rank! So back off a bit, will you.<P>Monen,<P>I feel for your situation, you're in a difficult situation right now, and you're also vulnerable. If you do love your husband, you might as well take advantage of him finding his way to this site, and go over some of the concepts provided here. And most importantly talk openly and honestly about your marriage, and see if you can come up with a plan to make it work, you might also think about making a joint counselling session with Steve Harley, which I think at this point would be a good thing.<P>If you guys don't work something out fast that works for both of you, I fear that you will each dig your heels in and fight each other from own personal trench, building resentment and anger, leading nowhere but to a final divorce. But both of you now have the chance to learn and grow as individuals and make a much better marriage that will satisfy both of you.<P>If you haven't already, do take some time to read: <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html" TARGET=_blank>Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts</A> Fill out the Emotional Needs and Love Buster Questionaires and see if you two can come to some sort of agreement that you not only can live with but enthusiastically agree to.<P>The important lesson here is that both of you are responsible for the state of your marriage and should recognize the behavior past and present that has threatened your marriage, identify these destructive behavior traits and eliminate them in a way that you both feel good about.<P>I wish the best of luck to both of you, and may you find happiness again together.

If y'all don't mind an oldtimer stepping in here for a second, I would like to shed some light on this discussion:<P>First, it appears that NO ONE who has responded to this post has brought up one of the fundamental principals of Marriage Builders that Dr. Harley espouses. Specifically, the concept that <B>an affair is what the betrayed spouse <I>thinks</I> it is. </B> Nothing more -- nothing less.<P>A legal separation is <B>not</B> a divorce. It is a legal separation. In the eyes of the law, the parties are still married. I agree with a previous poster (I believe it was TheStudent) who said that clearly the rules of the separation were not contemplated by the parties here.<P>If I may get up on my soapbox for just one second, it's my opinion that too many people these days use legal separations as a way to hedge their bet. They get separated, sow their wild oats, and if they don't find somebody better, they settle down, dissolve the separation, and stay married.<P><B>I'm not saying that's what happened here.</B> Just an observation I've noticed in my life.<P>At the risk of sounding like I'm lecturing, this particular scenario is PRECISELY the reason that sex while legally separated is a bad idea unless it's mutually agreed upon by the parties.<P>I recall a conversation similar to this several months ago. I remember talking to someone who was contemplating getting involved with an old flame before the divorce was final. In that situation, I stated that it was still infidelity to get involved with that person before the divorce was final, because you just never know what MIGHT happen, and you don't want to get into a situation you might regret later.<P>Well, here we are now with the EXACT scenario I described to that person. I am certain that Monen and Thenewbie both truly intended to get their divorce. However, the circumstances changed, and now they have a whole new problem to deal with.<P>My point with all of this is not to be an "I told you so" jerk. Very sorry if that's how I've come across. My point is merely this:<P>The commitment and sacrifice that come with marriage are sacred. They mean something, even if you're in the process of divorcing. You never know what's going to happen, and for that reason, it's best NOT to get involved with someone else until the divorce is final.<P>Now -- let's turn to the merits of the discussion here: Is sex while legally separated an affair? The answer is <B>YES</B><I>, if the other spouse looks at is as one.</I> The answer is <B>NO</B>, if the other spouse doesn't believe that it is.<P>In Monen's case, that clearly seems to mean that her actions constituted an affair in the eyes of her husband. Really, whether it IS or IS NOT an affair is irrelevant. The real question is: "Now that you both don't want a divorce, what are you going to do to fix the marriage?"<P>Here are my suggestions:<P>1. Get professional counseling. It's invaluable.<P>2. Thenewbie - don't focus on the "affair." The fact is, y'all were separated and the issue of sex wasn't discussed. You're not totally blameless here, either. You asked for the divorce. You moved out. You can't reasonably believe that she wouldn't start moving on with life.<P>3. Monen - put the "old flame" behind you. Sit down with Thenewbie and TOGETHER, you map out a plan of recovery. That includes, no contact, geting counseling, following the Policy of Joint Agreement and the Policy of Honesty.<P>What's done is done. You can either let it destroy your marriage or use it as a life lesson and a stepping stone to building a better, stronger, and more committed relationship. It's not THAT hard if you choose to forgive and work toward a better life. The only thing is that it takes time and patience to heal the wounds of infidelity. Anyone can do it, but you've got to commit to it.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P><p>[This message has been edited by Lone Star (edited May 02, 2000).]