I finally went to sleep at midnight, woke up three times and gave up and came down here at 5 am. I need to move on. I need help. I need to know that I'm not the only one drawing the conclusions that I'm drawing.<P>It's been three months since "D-Day I, The Physical Affair," a month since "D-Day II, Revenge of the Internet," and five days since "D-Day III, Revelation of the Phone Sex." Every time I turn around it seems there is another sequel, prequel, or equal. <P>H says "there is no more to find out" but he said that twice before.<P>My biggest stumbling block is that H & I met on the phone 13 years ago. He and I didn't see each other but once the first 10 years we knew eachother. We each knew the other dated, but we always talked on the phone (different states, just like phone sex woman). We talked about everything from Constitutional rights to sex. We were best friends but I wasn't what he was looking for in a mate (wrong religion, wrong profession, wrong city). <P>In 1992 I told him it was time for us to move on and we didn't talk for quite a while. It seems he got married in 1993. Around New Year's 1995 he called me again out of the blue. He didn't mention his marriage until May when she came and took all his furniture. He said she had been living with her parents since December. Truth?<P>I have the feeling I was the other woman.<P>There. I've said it. Now I'll let the tears come. I am no different than the people I am finding out about now.<P>I know first wife was not a nice person (no one I've spoken to liked her--not just H). I know that she almost destroyed H's knee with a frying pan and humiliated him in public. But I also know that the reason she gave for leaving was that he was taking up with other women.<P>One of whom was me. Only I didn't know it.<P>Yesterday he sent me a copy of an e-mail he said he sent to "all" of his internet women. It was a good-bye e-mail as per my request. He had sent it to himself and forwarded me a copy so I have no way of knowing who he sent it to. I asked how many (thought that might be a non-LB). He said "seven or eight" people. It was yesterday, for crying out loud-WAS IT SEVEN OR WAS IT EIGHT? <P>I asked how he decided to send it to people. He said he just went through e-mail addresses and picked out ones he thought he should delete...On all of the accounts I saw there were no more incriminating addresses. At least not that I saw. He has more stashes than a drug smuggler.<P>He is away on business throuh Saturday. I know he invited someone to dinner with him before I blew his latest adventures out of the water. He says he invited her because he knew she couldn't make it. I never saw her turn down the invitation.<P>I am just another replaceable part. I am supposed to be the most important person in the world to him and all I am is one of many.<P>I feel so sad. I just feel sick.<P>He says he wants to be with me and only me now, but he said that after each revelation. He is saying nothing different this time than last. Either he was a really good liar the first two times, or he has been perfecting his story...<P>Does anyone see a way to make this marriage work?<P>Frank (aka PleaseHelp) said in the last thread that I initiated that I should focus on what I did to create the environment that allowed the affair to happen. It seems to me that what I did was not monitor everything every minute of the day. I have no desire to live in a police state in my own home.<P>I'm out of ideas except one. And I don't want to do that. I need my self respect, but I have a little boy who needs his daddy.<P>Thanks in advance. --HBC

Wow...from what you are describing it sounds as though your H is in need of some serious help. I don't think your marriage stands much of a chance without your H getting some serious therapy. It appears that his compulsion has been going on for some time. You can't blame yourself. Has your H been to counseling for his problem? Does he realize that having dozens of women, married or single, is not the norm? I can appreciate how absolutely horrible this must be. Since your H has told you he wants only you, maybe now is a good time to suggest him getting help. If he agrees and keeps going, maybe then he will be able to commit to your marriage. I hope so.<P>Prayers,<P>LS<BR>

Thanks. LonelySoul. I agree that he needs counseling, but he has steadfastly refused to get any.<P>What do I do? Insist, though that's a lovebuster? Plan A? Plan B? The big D?<P>I need some insight here It looks pretty bleak from this angle.<P>Thanks. --HBC

Hi HBC<P>i don't have much to offer in the way of advice (i'm in the boat with you now), i'm kinda competing with the same thing your h has women he can't touch (sorry about the PA), and my h has his *right hand* (if you know what i mean), just wanted to offer my support to you and hope you get through it, <P><BR>p.s. you could hit him in the other knee with a frying pan, that's all the therapy i can offer <P>mrb<BR>

You say he won't go to counseling, how about you? Are you in counseling? Maybe he would be willing to go together? Or to one of your sessions.<P>So now you have an assurance that he is not seeing other women. Don't know whether you can believe it. Okay. Next step. He should be willing to submit (bad word) to your checking up on him as a way to rebuild the trust. He should work to earn your trust.<P>He says he only wants to be with you. Do you think he is sincere? Has he shown any remorse for what he has done and the hurt he has caused you? That is a problem with my wife. No remorse. The only thing she feels bad about is that "I don't get to see the kids enough." Not even that she has hurt the children.<P>Remember, this process is as much about us as the other person. That has been operationalized (as we say in academia) only in the last couple of days. Do the best you can with you. Free your mind and hopefully he will follow.<P>I hope that this helps. You have done so much for me, I thought I would make a feeble attempt to return the favor.

I think its important that your H realizes he has a slight problem; perhaps then, he will be receptive to counseling. I don't think he is going to change on his own; not if this particular compulsion has been on going for a long time. You suggesting counseling is not a lovebuster. You can attempt to talk to him in a nonthreatening way by sincerely telling him how concerned you are. You can be supportive without issuing ultimatums, but he has to acknowledge that the problem is there. If he makes light of it and refuses, then I quess plan B is in order. I know my H agreed to counseling; however, he only went because he figured it would please me if he went. He told me he didn't need it, but he'd go, but he didn't know what for since he thought everything was fine. Unfortunatly, our marriage is in the process of D. I have done everthing but turn myself inside out and stand on my head. After exhausting all my options and hanging on, I realize I can't do this by myself. <P>Prayers!<BR>LS<BR>

Thank you all for your replies. Sorry I haven't gotten back to you quicker--as is uusally the case as soon as I had a personal issue work sped up. I'm dancing as fast as I can!<P>The short version of this post is that I think I have to wait for H to figure himself out before we can be a strong couple. I think I need to re-read and re-work my Plan A and decide a bottom line of what I will do and when.<P>Now for the long version...<P>Thanks for the support, Mrs.RaBull. Believe me, I have wondered whether a well-placed frying pan would have an effect... <P>GP: Your advice is far from feeble! (Though what part of academia says "operationalized"???? ) <P>In answer to your questions, I am not currently in counseling. I made a half-hearted attempt to find a counselor after D-Day I, but I did not immediately find one I liked and gave up the hunt. To be honest, I'm not real thrilled with counseling on the whole: I see it as a means to an end and too many people I know in counseling seem to have made it a lifestyle. I am also afraid that a counselor would advise me to leave and I don't want to leave. Not yet.<P>I do have good news on this front: this evening H agreed to talk to a counselor with me! I need to reread he sections on how to find a good couples counselor--I have a feeling that H is not going to want to shop for one. <P>Do I think that he is sincere when he says he only wants to be with me? Well, he keeps saying it. And he immediately gives up whoever I find...of course, I keep finding more layers to the onion...and he keeps saying he wants to be only with me... He seems to feel very bad when he sees/remembers the pain I'm in, but he keeps right on doing what he's been doing. <P>Ugh. The more I look at this the more futile it seems. I cannot change him. I can't figure out what part of me needs changing to keep this from happening. After I found PA I figured out a plan: sharing more in his hobby, making sure we set aside time for intimacy, making sure I told him how proud I was of him. I could see concrete things to do to make things better. It was going to be hard, but I had a plan.<P>Now I don't see the situation so clearly. I guess the old plan is still valid, but it only addresses part of the issue. <P>Lonely Soul: Thank you for your insight. I keep having visions of me "turning myself upside down and inside out" and still finding more affairs. Perhaps there is hope with him being willing to go to couples counseling. It's start.<P>Thanks for hanging in there through another long post. I'll try to shorten things up from now on!<P>I really appreciate the advice. --HBC

I, too, have problems with people that make counseling a career. And I'm a social worker!<P>Couple of things about counseling. The research shows that it does not matter if you go to a psychologist, MFCC, social worker, or any other professional. Several studies have shown that the most important factor in your improvement is that you like your counselor.<P>Also, you may look into someone who does short-term, task-focused therapy. Again, most of the research shows that short term is just as valuable as the old lay on the couch psychotherapy. Make sure that you know what you want. You may not know how to get there, but that is what you work on in therapy.<P>Be ready to work very hard. IMHO, the therapist is only there to help you, not to make the decisions for you. And the one hour per week is not going to do it. Homework is key.<P>I'll get off my soapbox now. Good Luck.

I agree with grandpabri about the counseling; it is important you feel comfortable with the counselor. <P>I think your H is probably very sincere when he says he wants only you...he most likely does, but he has this other compulsion that he is fighting. This is why I think he needs to slay this dragon before you two can work on the marriage. Look at it as if he had a gambling addiction, or drinking, etc. He most likely wants to stop, but doesn't know how to, falls of the wagon, and starts again. Is he compulsive with other things as well? If he is obssessive/compulsive, a psychiatrist may be a better choice than a counselor; just something to think about it.<P>Take care....prayers.<BR>LS<P>[<BR>