I just read Sad in St. Louis's post and couldn't believe there was anyone else a similar situation! For me, though, it took H only two days away from home before he wanted to come back and work with me on restoring our marriage. I should know today whether OW decides to keep the baby.<P>Our problem is that H and I long ago decided that we didn't want kids (but we've only been married 5 years). However, he is going through a mid-life crises, and right now thinks a child isn't such a bad idea to carry on the family name - as long as he doesn't have to live with it! I'm having a problem because I thought his affair was going to be behind us. A child is going to be a constant reminder. However, I have told him that I will help him care and support the child. I also told him when he mentioned classes that I didn't want him to go to Lamaze with her or be present at the birth. <P>He thinks the mother won't want me to have anything to do with the child. But I'm supposed to let him go visit the child in her home??? I don't think so! But this will be his only child, and I can understand that he would want to be father to him/her. I just hope she will decide to do what is best for the child considering that H will only be a part-time father.<P>Sorry to ramble. . .I think I'm sort of in shock. I'd love to hear from anyone who has been in a similar situation.

<small>[ February 27, 2005, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Childless,<P>Unfortunately, I think that children resulting from an affair is more common than many people realize. It feel very sad for these innocent children. My H & I have 3 children of our own. The OC resulting from his affair is now 9 months old. <P>I hope that the OW has the courage to give the baby up for adoption. I believe it would be best for the child to be raised in a 2-parent family. If she chooses to keep the baby, then you and your H need to decide what is best for you as a couple. It doesn't matter what the OW wants. I definitely would not tolerate your H being by her side during the labor and delivery. <P>I would be happy to talk to you any time. Our support network of women in this situaiton seems to be growing lately. It's wonderful to have the support but sad to see so many new faces.<P>Take care,<BR>Audrey

Childless: <P>Gad, I think if I see one more person on this forum with this horrible nightmare problem, I am going to go screaming naked through the woods. I am so very, very profoundly sorry you are here. <P>Audrey and I share the same birth month for the OC, so we share time lines. Audrey's advice was right on the money and under absolutely no circumstances should your spouse accompany OW to lamaze (sp?) or be in the delivery or labor room with her. Spouse should not witness the birth or have anything to do with OC unless you two have entered into a Policy of joint Agreement on each and every issue. After all, if you are going to be generous enough to share your life with the OC, then you get to call the shots. <BR>The OW has absolutely nothing to say about whether or not you can see and be with OC if your spouse is paying child support and married to you and the financials are effecting you. She has NOTHING to say about it if she wants her support checks. So what OW wants is a moot point. She cannot have it both ways.<P>If your spouse wants to be involved with OC and you feel you can adjust and welcome the OC into your life, he is one he** of a lucky man and absolutely should acquiesce to all your desires surrounding the issues with regards to OW and OC. It's the LEAST he can do.<P>Jenny lurks and posts here and will post to you soon. The OC in her life is close to 2yrs old now and she and her spouse are working an outstanding recovery. Jenny is very wise and kind-a lot nicer than me. My anger gets in the way of sound advice much of the time so listening to Jenny, Audrey and others here will give you support, comfort and guidance-and we are all here for you and for each other in our small forum within the forum.<P>Read the recent posts from Texasgirl.<P>Prayers<P>Catnip =^^=

My husband's illegitimate daughter is 4 yrs old. I've been married 20 yrs and he had a long term affair for 5 yrs. with a woman in Brazil on business trips. I have known for 11 mos. The pain and shock have lessened, the obsessing has lessened, my prayer life has increased in meaning and depth, the wound has healed slightly. With that said, I find the presence of the OC rips open the healing each time my husband wants her to visit from NY (out-of-state). <BR>I have done a lot of homework in these past 11 mos. Let me lay them out:<BR>1. Insist on a paternity test. It can even be ordered on the umbilical cord blood. There is more than emotions in this decision. There is the future child support payments (mandatory, or his wages can be garnished until the child is 18). There is the distribution of his estate on the event of his death.(10% of men claiming paternity are found not to be the biological father)<BR>2. Get a lawyer to determine the laws concerning illegitimate children in your state. Most laws have very strong laws protecting illegitimate children. We as the wives have no rights in this matter usually.<BR>3. My marriage therapist gave me excellent advice. He said,"In your marriage you have been the one to save everyone and take care of everyone. Don't do it this time. For the first time in your life you must not take on any responsibilities for your husband's mistake. For the sake of your marriage he must disconnect from this child and release her to the life she must live with the mother and hopefully a decent stepfather. The biological father should assume a minor role if he hopes to live a fully restored life with his betrayed wife.<BR>This gave me such freedom and permission to let my husband suffer. He has suffered a lot. I don't wish it on him as vindication, but he is realizing that his daughter must get on with her life. She's 4, starting preschool in NY, making friends, the OW is engaged. His heart breaks that he can't keep "both balloons up in the air". <BR>I told him he must leave unless he can agree to only 2 visits from her in a year. He's agreed. Now when she visits I let him experience her full force,ex. wetting the bed, refusing to brush her teeth or take a bath, temper tantrums in the mall. I saved him with our own kids from dealing with these things. <BR>He and I are going to make it, but sometimes it is pure hell on the heartstrings. Gotta' go. My prayers are with all of us living in this hell on earth. Peace lover.

Hi, and hope you are doing well under the circumstances. Our OC is 6 years old and we have never seen her. He pays child support. A lawyer drew up support agreement, we never had to go to court. Hehas visitation outlined yet we have never demanded are been offered it. The mother also did not want me involved with OC, yet I am stay at home mom with our children. If the child cam to visit, she would be under my care because he would not take off time for her when he does not take it for our children. He will not make our chilren feel that she gets special treatment. If she got married and the husband wanted to adopt the OC there would be not objections. Sad, yet that is the way it is. Read my post, child by Ow by H. As you can see you are not alone. Keep your head up, remember you are special and do not let yourself get bogged down by this. Vent here. Good luck, Texas girl

childless,<BR>My heart goes out to you and everyone else in our situation. The lady who first helped me out at this board, "Devastated", is also childless but recovering; hasn't been here in long time. I hope all the different posts on this help you.<P>Catnip,<BR>You are just too kind, Girl!! (What's the icon for BLUSHING?!) I'm too overwhelmed by all the newcomers' messages (here and at Recovery Board) at the moment to feel very wise. I'm just one of many struggling to Do the Right Thing(s).<P>Bless us all...<BR>Jenny<P>

(Left my password at work. I decided to take today off, so re-registered since I can't get to that email address from home.)<P>Thanks for everyone's comments. They *have* helped. Of course, it's helpful just knowing I'm not alone in this situation.<P>OW has decided to keep the baby. I feel this woman is not too stable, and I'm afraid she's going to use this to get closer to H. I also feel like the marriage is almost back where it was last week. H doesn't know how he really feels about OC and how he's going to deal with it. I emailed him several of your comments to give him some food for thought, and he read Dr. Harley's article on the subject with no prompting from me. Unfortunately, he thinks he needs to work this out on his own. I have made it known how I feel. So we'll see if he takes my feelings into consideration. If he doesn't, that will just tell me he's not committed to our marriage. If he's not committed to the marriage, I probably will file for D. I've done everything I can - it's up to him now. <P>Most (all?) the other posts seem to come from people who have other children. I guess I'm going against the grain in that I don't think I want to deny H access to his only child. I've even offered to adopt it. I can accept his child, but not the OW.<P>There have been good things that have come out of this EA. H has been talking more and been more honest in the last couple of months than he has *ever* been. But he's afraid we'll go back to our previous pattern of yearly discussions on the state of our marriage, followed by a few months of good times and then back to the same old routine. I've told him that I have changed my attitude (thanks to MB and other forums), and *I* will do everything not to fall into that pattern again. <P>Thanks to you all for being here. I'll let you know what develops.<P>Sue (Childless)

Childess:<P>I should tell you that my husband and I do not have children together. We are a blended family and I raised his two children for him along with my son from previous marraiges.<P>It has always been a heartbreaking source of pain that we could not have children of our won together. Something that will always tear me up. The fact that some stranger was able to conceive, carry inside her and give birth to and raise my husband's child is something I will never be able to resolve within me. I still obsess. All I can do is try to concentrate on my marriage and try to move forward. <P>The one thing that made it tolerable for me that I was unable to have my own husband's child was that we had such an amazing marriage and were completely faithful to each other. It was sort of my 'consolation' prize. Now that is gone forever.<P>It's a bitter pill...it truly is the worst possible thing a man can do to his wife. It even far surpasses and affair-that's bad enough because that alone changes the landscape of the marriage forever and changes you, too. It takes people YEARS to recover from an affair. But, a child from an outside party invading the marriage is too horrible to describe. And it lasts FOREVER-the support, the contact, the other things that can pop up to interfere with your life-is there always.<P>I have been struggling with the knowledge since January 1999. In early August, on the spur of a moment, without thinking about it, I jumped on a plane and flew to NY and made an unannounced visit to the OW. It was horrible to see her huge with the OC. It tore me up inside, but, I didn't cry in front of her. We talked for six hours. I needed to know if it was my husband's (it was, I knew that in my heart but needed confirmation) and I needed to know what she was going to do with it-if she was going to do the right thing or keep it and ruin all our lives.<P>She gave birth 8-19-99, filed paternity against my spouse and dragged us into court in NY, 1900 miles away, on a trumped up Order for Protection against me, for visiting her unannounced I suppose. <BR>While we visited she was as anxious and curious to talk to me as I was to her. And it was very amicable. She probably thought about it later and out of spite she decided to nail me. OK. If that's the only satisfaction she gets out of this, then fine. Take it.<P>I hope your husband will acquiencse and honor your feelings/wishes. Our priest informed us that the only and first responsiblity we have is to each other and to our marriage-that all we owe the OC is finanicial support. It is only if down the road I can handle more that anything else will be included into our lives.<P>You are in my prayers. I am so sorry you are here and that you are in this position.<P>Catnip =^^=

Childless,<BR>It sounds like we are in a very similar situation. My H also does not know what he wants. H will not end it with OW but tells me he is not seeing her. H told me OW still is hoping we divorce so she can have the "picket fence" but he sort of resents her since he thinks OW "trapped" him. OC is due Oct 28. H moved out in November to "work out our problems" by himself and has spent the last 5 months hanging out with all his friends (all single), having an affair and has assured me he wants to make our marriage work but will not take any real steps to prove it. H told me at least 2 times he will do anything to make our marriage work and then does nothing. I had filed for divorce prior to knowing about the OW but since I found this sight, I have some hope. I also believe until God gives me the peace, Plan A and no divorce is my path. I think I will change it to a legal separation instead so I will be protected incase he continues to sit on the fence and I find and end to my patience and ability to deal with this. My prayers are with you too. It hurts worse than anything I have ever experienced, Im sure you (all) can agree. It has been a Godsend to find this board and to hear I am not alone-it sounds like you feel the same way. (I have been divorced before and it took a long time to heal...I did not do all that I could to keep my first marriage and I know the pain of divorce is real...that is why I will take on the heavier load to try to reconcile (and also because Jesus died as an ultimate act of reconciliation...for the OW also...and I want to try to honor Him before I really throw in the towel.)<BR>Kris

Thanks for sharing that, Catnip. It must be very difficult. I guess I'm "lucky" in that have I never wanted to conceive. So that part of the whole ordeal doesn't bother me. And H doesn't have a very strong sense of family, either. He and his sister haven't talked since his affair began. He thinks she told me about it when she did not. And he thinks she should have stood by him no matter what. I've told him that she only told me after I already knew. And *he* was the one who dropped the bomb on her by bringing OW to her house unannounced! So I'll just wait and see what he figures out for himself. <P>Sue (childless)

Yes, SISL, we are in a similar situation. However, I do know that my H is not seeing OW outside of work since he moved back Sunday. And OW is out of a job as of May 21. So the work distraction will be out of the way.<P>My H is also hanging out with male friends - most of whom are single and almost 20 years younger than he is. He *had* to get into motocross last year, so it has pretty much consumed him. Unfortunately, when he bought the bike I told him I wanted nothing to do with motocross. OW's ex was also into motocross and that's something H and OW have shared. I've tried to become interested and we do talk about it now. But he still considering his riding time "his" time. I sent him Dr. Harley's recreation article, and he didn't take it very well. But we are attempting to develop mututal recreational activities.<P>This is also my second marriage. In the first, I was the betrayer. I vowed I would not commit the same mistake in this marriage. But I have made other mistakes, and I do accept my part in the breakdown of the marriage. This is the first time, though, that both of us *at the same time* were willing to work on making the marriage work. This child, though, is mucking up the work. <P>Good luck to you, Kris. Keep us posted.<P>Sue (childless)<BR>

Childless, <BR>I think it is admirable that you are willing to include the OC in your life, especially when you have chosen not to have children of your own. I'm glad to hear that you and your H are both willing to work on the marriage right now. It's not easy to do given the complications.<P>SISL,<BR>When my H confessed his affair and the OW's pregnancy, I was devastated. I'm not sure what I would have done if he had not shown his committment to the marriage at that point. I am sorry that your H is waffling. I'm glad to hear that you slowed down the divorce to try and work things out. I hope that your H gets off the fence before it is too late.<P>Take care,<BR>Audrey

I just had to comment because I have a friend going though a similar thing. First off, I think it's great that your husband is griefing at the thought of just giving up his child entirely and is willing to be at least a part-time father. In an ideal world the mother would give the child up for adoption to a 2-parent home. But if that doesn't happen doesn't the wellbeing of the child come over every other person's wants or needs? First off, I agree...going to lamaz classes with her or attending the birth is out of line. But, why can't he be the same kind of father to this child that he would be if he were in a divorcing situation? Most divorced guys don't "hang" with their ex's but they do stay very involved in their childs life which really does benefit the child. For those of you out there that do have children with your husband. How would you feel or more importantly, how would your children feel if your husband left you for another woman, had a baby with her and then decided to NOT see your children again because it hurt his new wifes feelings? A little different isn't it? You see, my ex is very involved with a woman that refuses to let him see his kids. She wants him to raise her kids, period. He feels he's justified since he pays support. I'm sorry but children don't care about support, they care about their father and they don't care how he came to be their father. A choice he made when he chose to "stick it in". It takes a truly kind heart and a real love for your spouse to except his or her child when it was produced from an affair. K's wife is one lucky woman. Making a parent chose between a spouse or their child seems like pure and simple evil to me. But, if there has to be a choice of either being a father that has totally abandon his child or a father that see's the kid 1-2 times per year ONLY, then they child is much better off having the totally absent father. A dad that see's the child 1-2 times per year is not a father, they are a stranger. I know when I was small I couldn't imagine my parents sending me off to see a "stranger" once or twice per yr. That's easing the parents guilt and damaging the child.

BonnieSept-<P>The only evil one (pure and simple) is the OW for keeping a child she cannot afford, support, or provide a two parent family.<P>A priest told me that our first and foremost responsiblity was to each other and to our marriage. The only responsibility we have to the OC is financial. Our marriage is twenty years of shared history and deep involvement. I have been through enough and right now there's little left for anyone else. I have not been feeling very generous over the past few months. When the OW hit me with a bogus OFP, all my charitable feelings went out the window.<P>She should not have kept it. It was evil of her to keep it, pure and simple. And the scenarios are NOT the same for Betrayeds and OW's as you described. You're talking apples and oranges.

Wow! <BR>I'm new and still reading to see where I fit in and all, but I had to speak to this issue.<BR>This thread makes my skin crawl & just about stops my heart!!!!!!<BR>I thought the WS's said & did some cold things, but, NEVER, in my life, have I ever heard anything as sociopathicaly HEARTLESS as the what these (supposedly christian!!??!!)<BR>BS's are ranting in this thread. OMG!!!<BR>How can you encourage ANY man to abandon an infant,(hey... he started it's tiny life k?), AND THEN call the child's Mother An "EVIL *****" because she will not do the same!! Children are gifts from God, ALL CHILDREN!! (Yes, ladies, Even OC.)! Nice try cat-nip, with that spiel about OC DESERVING better than a than broke, single mom, (Your compassion breaks my heart!). What a hypocrite!!! <BR>I wasn't really *buying* Harley's claim that faithfull spouces behavior in the M contributes to an affair occurring...but I think I can see why that's true in some cases. The self-rightous indigation, with NO TRUE regard for a HUMAN LIFE, is appalling and has NOTHING to do with God's love.<BR>

childless,<BR>continued best wishes to you.<P>BonnieSept, I just have to say that you are WAAAAAY off-base here. Divorce and adultery are not the same thing!! It is CRITICAL to the survival of the marriage that certain boundaries be kept between former affairees. NEVER can they be allowed excuses for a continued relationship or trust will never rebuild. I cannot say the same of divorce; I DO think your exH IS immoral to give up on his children with you, children he knowingly had, has a prior relationship with and an emotional responsibility to. In divorce, the kids came before a second wife, and the wife knows that going into the relationship.<BR> <BR>In adultery, the marriage came before the affair, and any children! I TOTALLY support St. Louis in keeping her H away from the XOW's state and limiting the time and money spent on this child outside their marriage. It is my position that in the case of affairs the H's resposibility is limited to child support, with emotional support ONLY TO THE EXTENT IT DOES NOT HURT HIS PRIMARY FAMILY!<P>To "girlfriend", whose post I did not see the first time, if you are a Biblically-based person, perhaps you'd like to look up the case of Sarah and Abraham in Genesis, in which God tells Abraham that Sarah is right to send away her handmaid and the child Abram had with her, that God cares for "widows" and "orphans". Essentially, the Bible is saying Abraham's primary responsibility is to Sarah and their son together. Though the "OC" in this case is later at Abraham's funeral and considered an heir, we see that the XOW/OC presence is not welcome in the early years of recovery. You sound young and untempered by the many trials of life.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Jenny (edited May 05, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> For those of you out there that do have children with your husband. How would you feel or more importantly, how would your children feel if your husband left you for another woman, had a baby with her and then decided to NOT see your children again because it hurt his new wifes feelings? A little different isn't it? [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What these wives are experiencing is totally different. This is NOT a DIVORCE situation, but an INFIDELITY situation. I used to feel the same way as you- how can you make a person choose between their family and their illegitimate child that they didn't want? I am tired of supporting and defending THAT family. When the H chose to walk out, he walked out on the whole family- whether it is childless or not. He has an obligation to fix that or leave that before he has any obligation to a cheap whore who wasn't thinking of the best interest of another human being. <P>It is right that the H get his share of responsibility for sleeping around, but we are letting these women off way too easy. Why does the father's responsibility to a child that can wreck his family and the rest of his life have to supercede what is best for his existing family? What about the best interest of THOSE children?<P>Now, my feelings would be totally different if the H WANTED the child, but I think in these cases, the OW chooses for him. They both decide to lay together. SHE decides if they have a child or not. Not every pregnancy produces a child. Not every OW KEEPS the child. She has the freedom to make those choices, the man does not. His choice starts and stops with doing the deed. She has many more.

Girlfriend, you are way off base. Everyone here is concerned about the OC. Yet their primary concerns are their own children Of The Marriage (not The Affair) and putting their marriage back together. My husband did want another child. When he got involved with OW, he was running away from family and responsibilities. He epiomised the Male MLC. She made him feel young and carefree, with her he had no responsibilities. When she got pregnant, after assuring him she was on the pill, he felt like she betrayed him. Ironicallly, he had told her I was pg just 4mos before she came pg. He was trying to end it with her. Then here we are 7 years later and she is still carrying a torch for him, out of the blue she writes him a loveletter telling him no man can ever be to her what he was/is. I would accept the OC if mother was not part of picture. The OW could have given my H's child to us to be raised w/her half-siblings, yet her mother chose to go it alone.

I agree with Texasgirl, my husband also was running from responsibilities. OW also said she was on the pill when the PA started but she got pregnant pretty quick. (OW is 21 with a 6 year old-got pregnant with loss of virginity-now she'll have 2 kids, 2 different daddys before shes 22. sick).. I would take OC in a heart beat if OW would give it up (OW freaked when H mentioned this-he was out of line, too early to bring it up to her). H told me of affair the day after he asked her to hold off the abortion he had convinced her to get. My first reaction was "thank God you arent having that blood on your hands too". The mistake is not the OC, God formed that baby in his/her mothers womb and knew that child at the beginning of time. The mistake was the affair.<BR>Kris