1 1/2 years ago my husband had an affair. We went through counseling and I have read so much that I am now a walking self help dictionary! I thought we were making progress until last November he finally said, " I haven't loved you for years. Sometimes I think since we got married." My response has been lets work at that. I thought we were but he keeps doing things (like stay out all night (about 4 times since November)disrespect me, lie,etc. Well he finally left last weekend for a week ( he will be back next Sunday) Said he was suffocating here with me and the kids. He has been coming by, but I am lost. I have prayed so hard about this. I keep reaffirming that now, God has it. <BR>He has told me little about where he is (emotionally) expect to say he has some deep resentments about me. He clarified some of them but he refuses to forgive. I have asked for forgiveness and told him he needs to let go of the resentment,or at least give me the opportunity to make amends. I wonder if his "loss of love" is real or if he has harboured so much discontent,illwell,guilt, resentment,etc that he cannot get beyond it. I have told him as much. I have also told him that while I can be at peace with whatever choice he makes, it is NOT okay,nor will it ever be okay for him to divorce me. I believe very very strongly in marriage and in mine. I will not tell him to leave nor will I tell him its okay. I would accept it if that was his choice. <P>SO, my quandary is this: I have worked through over and around every love buster I can think of, and made personal adjustments galore, but it still comes down to a one-sided relationship. I can't fix it by myself.Please advise. I do not want to hear "kick him out, however. To go, is his decision alone. <BR>

If you've been working a lot at things without seeing any progress (or maybe even the reverse) I think you should consider "doing an 180" as described by Michele Weiner Davis in the Divorce Busting book. "More of the same" as Michele describes it has a tendency to push the person you're trying to change in the opposite direction.<P>scandinavian

If you have been working on it for this long and he still has not modified his behavior then you may have only one choice. It's not divorce but a temporary separation. There are many books that describe a "strucured" separation. If you won't kick him out, then you leave.<P>My wife had the EA and we're about to separate for the summer (I'm moving). I have been in Plan A for over 2 months and the counselor has encouraged our split. It's meant to give us each time to think and time to experience what it's like without each other. It's not Plan B since we will still have contact (part of the structure). If you do this, you will most definately find out if his "loss of love" is real.<P>Sometimes, you have to break something completely before you can fix it.

Hi IKD -<P>First I want to Welcome you to MB - you said that you have read up and such, but I am unclear if that included all the Harley principles......<P>There are so many "relationship" books out there and some often contradict others. I guess the important thing is to pick an approach and give it your very best making adjustments where they may fit.<P>What approach have you been doing since 1 1/2 years ago? Anything specific like MB or DB?<P>You mentioned love busters and changing your wording (let's work on that, etc....) so that shows that you are working on your communication skills which is great!!<P>When you discovered the affair - did he admit all and want to work things out? Was he active in the process or did he simply stop the affair and not tell you or work with you on the problems that led him to it?<P>Since he started up in Nov with what you have mentioned - why do you think he is like this? What does your gut tell you?<BR>Do you think he is involved in something again? Could it be the same person or would it be another?<P>You mentioned resentments, etc. and his holding on to them, as well as your asking for forgiveness and his inability of doing so.......all you can do about that is to make sure you have changed whatever he is resentful about. Let him see that you have permanently removed whatever it was from your behaviors on a consistant basis. <P>Why do you think he feels suffocated? That would be a good thing to figure out if possible.....<P>It is very hard to guide you with the little info you have given....perhaps you can tell us more of the particulars and we can help you to decide if a different approach is needed.<P>So, fill us in some more and hang in there.....there is always hope and as long as you do your best you will get through this fine.<P>Sending you some BIG HUGS, PRAYERS & STRENGTH,<P>Sheba <P>

Thank you so much. Let's start with the affair. It lasted about 5 months, involved lots and lots of phone calls (you should see the cell phone bills :>( and I believe it (now) was caused by his inability to talk to me. He spent a lot of money,did all sorts of stuff during and after I found out. He continues to lie. (2 weeks ago he saw an attorney and told me about a week later-this required a lie again) <P>The suffocating (I believe) is due to the fact that when things get too deep, he puts attitudes,emotions over on me that I don't have,builds on old,old resentments he hasn't let go of and tada you have an inability to breath. <BR>Over the past week I have finally,finally got that this man has never let go of,(let alone forgive)anything. He can call up things like the time I was really angry and was VERY rude to him in front of my mother-roughly 13 years ago!! He still bears grudges against a guy who belittled him in high school (for heavens sake). <BR>So, now I have discussed,lectured,etc about his need to forgive and let go. We cannot go forward without it. I think he has taken this in but who knows(?)<P>He knows that when he returns on Sunday,that I expect 2 things (respect, and the start of list of what he wants from this marriage-no more brief details that explain nothing,like well "You know", or "we don't talk", or worse, "I don't love you". I need answers,specific answers.<P>What have I been doing for 1 1/2 years? Well I have speculated,begged, been nice, angry, and you name it. More specifically, I have worked on being more agreeable. Listening better. I have made myself more available sexually,initiated more,and been more enthusiastic (this was a BIGGY for him). <P>Now, the change is this. I am at peace with his choices. I cannot change him. I cannot make him love me. I can only correct the problems that I know exist. If there is no feedback I must assume all is well(?)<P>This little story will help explain it all. Lets say I make a lot of Mexican food. I try different dishes for you, you respond positively each time. This goes on for years and years, I fix Mexican food, you eat it and never make a negative comment. Finally, one day you say " I hate Mexican food." Not surprisingly, I am shocked and dismayed and look back over the years for some sign that would have told me this. How could I repeatedly cook a meal that you did not like. Why did I not know this?<P>Well the answer is simple. I did not know. Nor should I have. You never,ever,let on. <P>Each of us has a responsibility to ourselves to speak up. If something really is not important LEAVE IT. If it bothers you, you have an obligation to you and the other party to say something. Should you be misunderstood, try again,and again,and again. However, it is always easier(less real work) if I blame you,and resent you for something than if I acknowledge a problem and set about correcting it-this requires work-and honestly-my husband has had years of waiting for someone to do it for him. He is lazy.(Why should I do it if you can do it for me!)<BR>Bottom line: our problem is years of his agreeing with me and not getting his needs met. I took it that if he did not agree he would say something. (NOT A CLUE, until now) Now he is at a point where he must do something. My part (right now) is to be as accomodating, available, and loving as God gives me the strength to be. I believe many positive changes have been made on my side of the table. Now the ball is in his court. <BR>Regards.<BR>LKD

Dear lkd: <P>I'm responding not with advice but to commiserate, some of your story parallels mine. <P>"involved lots and lots of phone calls (you should see the cell phone bills :>( and I believe it (now) was caused by his inability to talk to me." My H's involvement is deeply emotional, he was open about the cell phone bill (we share a checking account, after all) but for the first years it was a "friendship" so it was all supposedly okay. <P>this man has never let go of old grudges (I was copying your post lkd and edited out part of your words - so I'm supplying from memory. ) In counseling my H brought up the most amazing, long ago things, one from before we began living together! But he denies that he hasn't forgiven. (At least we're in counseling; i'm grateful for that)<P> I loved your analogy to the Mexican food. I found out years too late about the things I did or didn't do that my H resented, after he lost all desire for me and realized that he made a big mistake, had doubts before the wedding that he suppressed.<BR>

You said quote "He has told me little about where he is (emotionally) expect to say he has some deep resentments about me. He clarified some of them but he refuses to forgive" Resentment=anger.Anger turned inward and not dealt with = DEPRESSION. This is a man who is depressed,doesn't see it (not many will admit this) and attempts to blame everyone else for his discontentment. Over a period of time these depressed men are soo overwhelmed by being unable to get relief by all the inappropriate measures they choose(affairs,involvement in extra curricular activities to exclusion of everything else,workaholism,alcoholism,drug use) that they can become mean and emotionally abusive. He needs medical help.Maybe you could offer him a kind suggestion in that direction.It's amazing how fast they can start to feel better when they only admit to this and get some help whether meds or counseling.Good luck.