I've only posted a few times. My W of 13 years had a 2 - 3 month affair at the end of 1999. The affair had ended when I found out about it, and the OM is out of the picture.<BR>We have read lots of books, and gone through counselling. Our relationship has gotten much stronger. Sometimes I get concerned that things have gotten better too quickly.<P>One of my concerns is whether or not I should trust her completely. She swears that she would never cheat on me again, and I believe her. But I was so naiive before that I can't help but continue to look for the signs.<P>She spends a lot of time on the Internet. She sends jokes, and talks to friends in private chat rooms. These are mostly local women, but she has spent time with male friends, including an ex-boyfriend. She used to have a password, but after the affair we agreed that she would take off the password, and tell the ex-bf not to contact her. She said I was welcome to check her mail.<P>She has given me no reason not to trust her, but I have checked her mail occasionally. I always did this when she wasn't around because even though she said it was OK, I didn't think she would like it. I never saw anything that concerned me until last week.<P>I found 3 outgoing posts to a guy across the country where the two of them were trying to get into a private chat room. It was apparent that they had done some chatting and were frustrated because of some computer problems. One of the weird things was that all of the posts were marked "forward" to indicate that she was responding to his e-mail, but his e-mails had been deleted. This is very unusual since she never deletes her mail, and had not deleted other mail from that day.<P>Even though there was nothing to indicate something was going on, I felt chills almost like D-Day. I've read so much here about how Internet affairs can occur. I didn't know whether to confront her or watch to see what happened. I decided it wasn't fair to keep it in, so I brought it up that night (no LBs). She said nothing happened. They were playing a game with others, chatted a little in the game, and decided to go to a private chat room. After we talked, she sent him an e-mail not to contact her.<P>Sorry this is so long, but I just don't know what to do. I want to trust her, but I just don't feel like I can trust her 100%. She says she can understand how I feel based on how it would have looked to me. But she is upset that I don't trust her. She says she is just an open person, and it wouldn't have mattered if it was a man or a woman - she was just having a conversation. <P>She also feels like her efforts to build trust (wayward's Plan A?) have been wasted. She is a reactionary person, so now she says she will not go on the computer, will not talk to men unless I am there, etc. I feel this is overkill, and she will end up resenting me. She has been distant since this came up, and I don't know if she is upset about the trust issue, or if something was really going on. <P>How do you know when to trust again? Do you check up on your spouse during the process? Do you tell him/her that you are doing it? Is this an LB? I know the forgive, but not forget issue, but do you ever fully trust again?<P>Thanks. <P>

<BR>In my humble opinion, it's innappropriate for a woman and a man who aren't married to each other to have any kind of private conversation - lunch, dinner, water cooler, telephone, internet chatroom, or otherwise. If it's a situation she can't share with you, it's dangerous. If there are circumstances that require this to happen (on the job, for example), the conversation should be kept to required topics only.<P>I know this may seem extreme, but it's the way I've lived my life for 20 years.<P>On the bright side, though, she offered to quit. Personally, I'd take her up on it without argument. My wife reacts the same way you've described and I've learned that once she makes that extreme call, the conversation is over. That's her signal that she's ready to be done.<P>You've got some other good things going on, too. She says she won't do it again. Perhaps it might be helpful to ask her what she's doing to make sure it won't happen again.<P>To try to answer your question of whether or not you fully trust again: I know I won't. I check, but it's less frequent now. I'm much more aware of what's going on around me, and when things don't smell right, I check where I can. Sometimes I find something, sometimes I don't. I've learned that if I do find something, I keep it to myself rather than let her know how to hide better next time.<P>Sorry that I don't have better advice. Sometimes I feel like I landed in a parallel universe that's different from the one I started out in, and I'm still trying to learn the quirks about this one.<P>Good luck to you.<P>Slightly Sane<BR>

Hi Gettingoverit -<P>I would have to agree with o2bsane on letting the last discussion lie....<P>As you both go through the rebuilding, there are bound to be times when each of you will "overreact" about this or that.<P>IF you are proceeding in the correct manner - these times will disappear. As your interraction improves and a new and stronger bond adheres - the trust will establish itself. <P>You can't force it or dwell on it. You have to go by instinct and then communicate your feelings with your wife. She must do the same. <P>Have you introduced any of the MB principles into your rebuilding? The POJA would be a very good tool for this, as well as countless other, situations that may come up. I strongly suggest that you try to implement as many of these MB tools as possible for they can only help you and your wife stay on the right rebuilding path - TOGETHER!!!<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba<BR>

getting overit, I was just wondering if your W discussed the "pull" to the chat rooms and "friendships"? <P>Have you been to counseling?<P>I know for me, I don't need to know all the details, but I would like to know what exactly we WEREN'T talking about when I though we were talking all the time.<P>I hope if my H and I can begin rebuilding our relationship he will look at the needs questionairre. I have always wanted to be the one to meet his needs....I just thought I was (at least most of the time...it's hard when you have three small children and he works 10 hr days with OP) . <P>From what I can tell from this board, the trust thing is the hardest.... I think whoever said you won't trust 100% again is probably right. That in itself is probably the hardest thing about the affairs.....<P>But like all things, time lessens those negative feeling....we remind ourselves that we are all capable of error....but I do believe that for a relationship to stay strong...we must protect it. That was definatley where I went astray... I underestimated the rules of protection. I won't again..in either this relationship or another.<BR>

My answer to your trust question is No. Don't trust your W 100%. Even Dr. H says that in his book.<P>After your W's recent affair, your W should expect that you don't trust her 100%. It is also inappropriate for her to be in private chatrooms or e-mailing with people of the opposite sex.<P>Even my H says this, "Because of what I did, I don't expect you to trust me completely." <P>My H and I also had a speedy recovery, although I sometimes wonder if that is why I still have so much resentment. Things happenned so fast.<P>Pre-affair, I used to trust my H 100%, but after his affair, I now know what he is capable of. If I have any reason to suspect anything (and I don't for the time being), then I will check.<P>I've already been through the wringer with his affair once. I won't tolerate another one.

Thanks for all of your responses.<P>Sane: I also have always tried to stay away from all types of one-on-one situations with females. W is friendly with everyone, and has never made a distinction between male and female friends. Yes, it does seem like we have landed on another planet.<P>Sheba: she has read SAA and HNHN, and we have worked on some of the principles. She really just wants the affair forgotten though, so she tends to resist getting into anything that reminds her of it (i.e. these books). It concerns me that we will fall back into the same old patterns.<P>Tootrusting: we have been to counselling and things went very well. We have each identified our needs, and are making some progress. <P>NoTrust: the speedy recovery has scared me too. I'm afraid that we really haven't solved the problems, but just glossed over them. It also makes you wonder if things improve so quickly and easily, why would she feel the need for an affair. Not trusting her is one of the hardest things for me, and it really hurts her.<P>Do you tell your spouse that you don't trust her, and that you will be checking up on him/her? Do you check in front of her, or do it behind her back? Doing it behind her back seems to violate the Rule of Honesty. Doing it in front of her seems like an LB, and lets her know where to hide things.<P>I appreciate any additional feedback. Thanks.<P>

I have a tendency to believe that a too speedy recovery doesn't help in the trust area. I can understand a betrayers want to 'move forward' or 'let the past lie'. They may feel they did something hurtful or wrong and who wants to dwell on that? But the problem lies in if the recovery is too speedy the betrayed feels brushed off. I cannot trust my wife yet and even though our recovery is taking weeks so far sometimes I feel like she is pushing to hard and I feel my feelings are being brushed aside.<BR>I think it is normal for you to have a trust issue for a while. And I think checking up on her is normal too. But you should be aware of how often you do and for how long. It should wane as you start to trust her more - and you should start to trust her more eventually (she is your wife). I'm not saying it has to be next week or next month or even next year; but be aware of how long you do and make sure that you are stiving to make progress. Each time you run your checks on her and she passes you need to make sure and give credit. Maybe every time she 'passes' you should buy her flowers or something.<BR>I am afraid that the 100% thing will never happen (I would love to hear differently from someone). I used to think my wife would never sleep with anyone but me. I personally hope that one day I can see my wife talking to another guy and not think that she wants him but I worry that day will never come.