You may not want to read this if you are totally devestated by the actions of a husband who has betrayed you.<P>I am in the process of breaking off all contact with a woman who I am convinced that I was in love with as much as the human heart can love. Let me assure you, terms like "fantasy" "dream world" and others....have no effect on me whatsoever.<P>I never meant to be in this place. It just happened. Period. But I can tell you how it happened...and never in a million years would I have thought I could have done this to my wife. <P>Figure in about 20 years of a decent marriage and family, good Christian lifestyle; add to it demanding work schedules, 3 kids with multiple activities and obligations, wife going back to school, and just for good measure, add a husband hitting the "midlife" time who feels like he has been spinning his wheels...and just beating himself up constantly for any number of reasons, and you have a recepie for a very vulnerable man.<P>The marriage was placed on the back burner and the fire nearly out, when all of a sudden, by "chance" he meets someone on here, of all places, who he "connected with" in a very special way. Never have we tried to justify our relationship. We were not looking for "someone". We just met. We fell in love. We have already caused our spouses undo pain for a brief meeting we had several months ago. They thought we had broke off contact. We did...but not for long.<P>We became like two people whose hearts became so attached, that to seperate us would be like cutting off our air and blood supply. Do not underestimate the very real sense that this is what it feels like. I would never in a million years want my wife to know how I feel about this friend. <P>Do I hate my wife? No...I have no ill feelings for her at all. Neither of us saw this coming. I don't know how to find my way back to her without her help. How can she really help me without knowing the extent of my turmoil? How can I ever bare my heart and soul to her regarding this? I just can't!<P>I am in 'limbo'. I don't know where to turn. I shared on an earlier post the feeling of going through withdrawl by using this analogy. Perhaps it will help you understand what we are going through.<P>There is a scene in the old movie "Poseidon Adventure" (sp?) where the folks that were trapped in the overturned ship had to swim quite a stretch under water through some unknown corridors.<BR>This withdrawl is much like that...you take a deep breath, go under, then begin your trek through the dark unknown. You don't know how long this will last...where you are going...and as you begin to fight for air, you panic and because you don't know where the next air pocket might be, you hastily go back to where you "knew you could breath" which is with the other person..and you breath deeply when getting back there...strengthening the bond of dependency that exist between the two of you.<P><BR> I suppose we deserve this torment and pain. I'm not looking for sympathy. I just hurt like hell right now...<P>What do I REALLY want? At this place and time that I am in? I want to close my eyes, then open them...and spend the rest of my life with this friend. I don't think that will happen. <P>I will not leave my wife, nor will my friend leave her husband. We both know that would be totally fruitless and destructive. We just both are struggling with the helpless place we are in...our minds screaming at us to turn and walk the other way back to God and to our spouses wholeheartedly, while our hearts scream back in defiance wanting nothing less than to be with the other person.<P>To all of you broken and hurting wives whose lives have been shattered by men like me...please hear me....I (we) never intended to hurt you like this. And I don't think any reason or explanation will ever erase the untold pain we have caused you. <P>Perhaps the words of Jesus, hanging on the cross, may make sense ...when he prayed: "Father, forgive them, they don't know what they are doing."<P>May God help us all.<p>[This message has been edited by NoMas (edited May 15, 2000).]

I know that in my case the man I am involved with is now divorced and did leave his wife. He did so after a year without any contact with me and after much counseling. Basically what happened is that he realized that exactly what you are afraid of is true, there was never going to be much of anything better in his marriage. It was what it was. She wasn't bad and he wasn't bad but love is a strange thing and sometimes it's there and sometimes it's not. So his kids were raised and he was faced with a lifetime of emptiness with a good friend. He searched his heart and just knew that even if I wasn't there for him he couldn't stay. And he didn't. It was hurt his wife or suffer himself I guess. And his wife once she knew the truth and knew that this was really deep down how he felt didn't want him to stay. They were able to part with a lot of sadness but not with hatred thank God. This is the risk in having affairs. Sometimes you really do find out that there is something better, much better for you out there. If you never go there you'll never find out. Sometimes it's just a fantasy but sometimes its true. Now you have made the same mistake we did and you have gone there. Now you must decide. But I would first spend a lot of time in therapy by yourself and with your wife. <P>Del

You know something, NoMas, I can't help but read your posts because three months ago I could have been you. What I don't understand is how you claim to be so in love with this other woman but know you must stay with your wife. On more than one occassion you have stated that you are convinced that she is the perfect one for you. I'm not slamming you for this, but why do you want to stay in a marriage to a woman you obviously don't love? Why does your friend want to stay married to a man she doesn't love? How can you possibly put your marriage back together if your spouse doesn't know there's a problem? Do you feel obligated to stay married because you have so many years invested? You mentioned being attracted to someone at work before this EA of yours started...who is to say something like that won't happen again if you don't get to the bottom of your marital problems or if you don't feel love for your wife? I am truly trying to look at this objectively. I know everyone is different and there are some women and men out here who would take their WS back in a heart beat no matter what. I know there are some, like me, who if I knew my H was in love with another woman, I wouldn't want him back. Addiction, love, whatever you want to lable it...if your heart and soul are longing for another, I wouldn't want you. I don't think you get extra points for being a martyr. I think if you are serious about breaking things off with the OW and recommitting to your marriage, you better be honest with your wife. I'm not saying you have to give her graphic details of your feelings, but she has no idea what she's in for or up against. Is that fair? <P>As you know, <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NoMas:<BR><B>You may not want to read this if you are totally devestated by the actions of a husband who has betrayed you.<P>I am in the process of breaking off all contact with a woman who I am convinced that I was in love with as much as the human heart can love. Let me assure you, terms like "fantasy" "dream world" and others....have no effect on me whatsoever.<P>I never meant to be in this place. It just happened. Period. But I can tell you how it happened...and never in a million years would I have thought I could have done this to my wife. <P>Figure in about 20 years of a decent marriage and family, good Christian lifestyle; add to it demanding work schedules, 3 kids with multiple activities and obligations, wife going back to school, and just for good measure, add a husband hitting the "midlife" time who feels like he has been spinning his wheels...and just beating himself up constantly for any number of reasons, and you have a recepie for a very vulnerable man.<P>The marriage was placed on the back burner and the fire nearly out, when all of a sudden, by "chance" he meets someone on here, of all places, who he "connected with" in a very special way. Never have we tried to justify our relationship. We were not looking for "someone". We just met. We fell in love. We have already caused our spouses undo pain for a brief meeting we had several months ago. They thought we had broke off contact. We did...but not for long.<P>We became like two people whose hearts became so attached, that to seperate us would be like cutting off our air and blood supply. Do not underestimate the very real sense that this is what it feels like. I would never in a million years want my wife to know how I feel about this friend. <P>Do I hate my wife? No...I have no ill feelings for her at all. Neither of us saw this coming. I don't know how to find my way back to her without her help. How can she really help me without knowing the extent of my turmoil? How can I ever bare my heart and soul to her regarding this? I just can't!<P>I am in 'limbo'. I don't know where to turn. I shared on an earlier post the feeling of going through withdrawl by using this analogy. Perhaps it will help you understand what we are going through.<P>There is a scene in the old movie "Poseidon Adventure" (sp?) where the folks that were trapped in the overturned ship had to swim quite a stretch under water through some unknown corridors.<BR>This withdrawl is much like that...you take a deep breath, go under, then begin your trek through the dark unknown. You don't know how long this will last...where you are going...and as you begin to fight for air, you panic and because you don't know where the next air pocket might be, you hastily go back to where you "knew you could breath" which is with the other person..and you breath deeply when getting back there...strengthening the bond of dependency that exist between the two of you.<P><BR> I suppose we deserve this torment and pain. I'm not looking for sympathy. I just hurt like hell right now...<P>What do I REALLY want? At this place and time that I am in? I want to close my eyes, then open them...and spend the rest of my life with this friend. I don't think that will happen. <P>I will not leave my wife, nor will my friend leave her husband. We both know that would be totally fruitless and destructive. We just both are struggling with the helpless place we are in...our minds screaming at us to turn and walk the other way back to God and to our spouses wholeheartedly, while our hearts scream back in defiance wanting nothing less than to be with the other person.<P>To all of you broken and hurting wives whose lives have been shattered by men like me...please hear me....I (we) never intended to hurt you like this. And I don't think any reason or explanation will ever erase the untold pain we have caused you. <P>Perhaps the words of Jesus, hanging on the cross, may make sense ...when he prayed: "Father, forgive them, they don't know what they are doing."<P>May God help us all.<P>[This message has been edited by NoMas (edited May 15, 2000).]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

I agree with the above posts. As a betrayer myself I know exactly how your feeling and how painful it is to feel like you have to stay in a marriage where you feel no love. If you really love this other woman you are not being fair to your wife by giving your heart and soul to another. She deserves to be loved in return. Just sometimes you do meet someone later in life that you love so much that you'll never be able to let it go and live a normal life with your spouse ever again. I knew that once I fell in love with the om I could not have made my marriage work regardless as to if I ended up with the om or not.

NoMas,<P>OK, you caught me in an ugly mood. I am experiencing a great deal of frustration (being the betrayed spouse is no picnic either), so pardon me while I take it out on you instead of my W. Apologies in advance.<P>If you feel THAT strongly about this OW then do you W a favor and divorce her. Commit to SOMETHING. Either do what feels right but you know is wrong, or do what feels wrong but you know is right. But DO SOMETHING. Don't leave your poor W in the dark - uninformed AND unloved, while you wring your hands over the tragedy of your situation. <P>You think you are suffering now? Wait until you have gotton off the fence and really made a permanent decision and have to live with the permanent regrets (there will be regrets either way). <P>Deciding to not contact is not the same as expunging your heart of the feelings for OW. If you feel in your heart (as you apparently do) that OW is indeed perfect for you, then your marriage is over. You cannot hold those feelings in your heart and have your marriage vows mean anything. You are committing a fraud on your W. STOP IT! <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Figure in about 20 years of a decent marriage and family, good Christian lifestyle; add to it demanding work schedules, 3 kids with multiple activities and obligations, wife going back to school, and just for good measure, add a husband hitting the "midlife" time who feels like he has been spinning his wheels...and just beating himself up constantly for any number of reasons, and you have a recepie for a very vulnerable man.<P>The marriage was placed on the back burner and the fire nearly out, when all of a sudden, by "chance" he meets someone on here, of all places, who he "connected with" in a very special way. Never have we tried to justify our relationship. We were not looking for "someone". We just met. We fell in love.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>"Never tried to justify your relationship"? That's what those two paragraphs are all about! <P>I <B>believe</B> that you feel terrible about finding yourself in this position. It truly reads like a Shakespearean tragedy. But here you are! Now what? You can go back to your marriage, but not with these feelings in your heart - not with sincerity. Don't insult your W by martyring yourself for the marriage - it will be a hollow relationship and she would have every reason to end it for that alone.<P><B>But it is the ultimate cowardly betrayal to love somebody outside your marriage, but then, by indecision or insincere devotion (i.e. your heart filled with OW), cause your betrayed spouse to end the marriage because you didn't have the guts to.</B><P>I truly feel sorry for you. In some perverse way, I am glad I am on the betrayed end than on the betraying end - I don't know how I would live with myself. You found something that your heart has connected with, but you can't have it without causing untold grief and becoming something that you probably abhor. I am so, so sorry.<P>Forgive me for the offensive things I have just said to you NoMas - they weren't aimed entirely at you.<P>------------------<BR>But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.<BR>Galatians 5:22-23<p>[This message has been edited by 2sad4words (edited May 15, 2000).]

Delphi...<BR> You say you are involved with this man now. Is marriage a part of your plans? How would you define your level of happiness for both you and your friend?<P>Lonely...<BR> You ask why stay if my heart and soul are with another woman? Because, deep down, I believe in the institution of marriage. I know how God feels about divorce. I know how destructive it is on our society and on children and such. My goodness...just read the post of devestated lives that are "bleeding" on these threads. Regardless of the fact that I "met someone" who I believe is so compatibale...so "right" for me, no matter how strong and true this belief is, I forfeited the right to ever know for sure when I made a vow to God and my wife years ago to "forsake all others".<BR>Just because I "fell into a ditch" does not mean I have to stay here. I don't believe it is God's will for me to leave my wife and kids for this other woman. And no, I don't believe it was God's will for me to get this involved with my friend. Believe me, I have cried many a tears of complaint to God in recent months begging Him to somehow make a way for me to have this desire in my heart. When I do....I picture a little child at WalMart screaming and fussing and demanding a toy that his mother says he can't have, regardless of how much he cries and screams.<P>I don't see myself as a martyr by staying in the marriage. Deep down, I have to believe that the marriage can be healed and restored. IT is just so hard to move in that direction when your heart is not in it. Also, I don't think that my friend nor myself have got to a place where we don't love our current spouses. I believe we both do. We just have not demonstrated it very well. <P>Someone said earlier to me that I had crossed a rather painful line...of 'regret'. THat should I follow my heart and pursue this other friend, I would always regret the pain I caused my family. On the other hand, if I stay with the marriage and make it work, deep down, I will always have a regret of wondering what life would have been like with this other person.<P>Given the place I am in, I cannot for the life of me, imagine a more perfect match or person to be with than this one I met. And it just kills us both that we allowed our hearts to become like this...knowing all along, that we were never free to belong to anyone else, but our spouses. Yes...this is the painful consequences of infidelity.<P>Some would suggest and even advise us to follow our hearts...so that we would be happy. Both of us know, that no matter how much bliss we might experience with each other...living out a dream we have shared and talked about for months, neither of us could handle the guilt that would come with it. <BR>

2Sad...<P>I think we both posted at the same time...let me respond to you.<P>First of all, no offense taken all. <P>Second, I was not trying to justify my relationship with my friend with those two paragraphs you pulled down. I was simply explaining how I got there. Like Harley says, there are no excuses for what I have done, but there are reasons.<P>Third, just because I believe I found someone who could very well be more fulfilling to me in numerous ways, does not mean that I should have her. Nor does it mean that my current marriage is without hope. I simply state the depth of my struggles and feelings...feeling one way, but needing to do another...which I believe is doing the "right" thing by making my marriage work. <P>Hopefully, with time, those feelings of love and such can be restored in my marriage. Actually, I believe that the deceptive forces that work here...would convince me that I can never have a good marriage again compared to what it "could be" with this other person. But I know better!<P>IT is a "tragedy" and a classic case of conflict...where emotion and logic meet head on. <P>Maybe I have been posting too much lately, but I have no one in the world to go to and share my heart these days...for various reasons I cannot go into here. So here I am. Sin and all.

You get no sympathy from me! You can either turn to your spouse for your needs, or turn to another. You made your choice, and probably didn't think about the consequences. <BR>At the time you were only thinking about YOU, what YOU needed, what YOU wanted, and only of YOUR feelings. Even though you didn't intend to hurt your wife, you knew that it would and you did it it anyway. You're probably thought you had to "follow your heart" and had to do it. Anytime you allow an interest with another person to cross over the line, that relationship will seem like the best thing that ever happened to you. Of course it will, there's no pressure of responsibility and no expectations. But a marriage has both of those things.<P>Your affair will always look better than the marriage, in your mind there's everything to gain in something new and exciting. Real mature love, takes effort and work, constant effort and work from both. So if you didn't turn to your spouse and now find yourself in this dilemma, you have only yourself to blame. <P>Your burning desire to be with this other woman, will eventually face the light and you will see it for it really is. Someday it too will will have the responsibility and expectations of marriage, then what? Back to square one, again? Stop the cycle and face your issues head on. <P>Take time to spend time by yourself. You will probably want to see both the OW and your wife (or the OW more than the wife), but it will not be fair to either one of them. The best is no contact with either for a stretch of time to do soul searching, find yourself, and revisit your values. <P>You don't have to be in limbo. Just for your information I have been both the betrayer and the betrayed in my relationship. And, I know both ends hurt, and I also know that you will only hear what you want to hear from others. I wish someone had taken the time to sit me down and gave me a good talking to, maybe my relationship wouldn't be in such a sad state. <BR>Learn and don't repeat the same mistake! Sorry, if I came on really strong. You know what the right thing to do is! Your wife is going to have unbelievable pain and hurt the OW will have less history with you and her pain will not be as deep. She has no real connection to your life except for the affair.<P>Your decision is to decide how you will move forward. Do you keep the memory of the relationship with your wife, do you turn your back and move forward with the other woman and never look back, or move on without either woman.<P>Sorry for coming on so strong. Love is a choice you make and everyday you remind yourself of that choice and make it happen.

NoMas,<P>Thanks for not taking my comments too personally.<P>Let me share with you what it feels like on the other side.<P>When I think back, I realize that every email, ICQ, electronic card, phone conversation, gift, and church youth group activity that my W participated in with her OM (also a youth group leader) - every one of those things involved a decision on her part to betray me. That hurts .<P>She too considers herself a good Christian. She did these things knowing all about sin, lies, infidelity, etc. from the biblical perspective. That hurts .<P>She has been angry, bitter, sullen, etc. She has apologized, but she has not been deeply repentent, swearing her renewed devotion etc in the way that our friend Jill so eloquently wrote in her post a few months ago. That would be a healing balm, but it is absent. That hurts .<P>She doesn't like to discuss her feelings - gets angry if I ask. So I have to try to draw conclusions - a dangerous game. If she is unable after almost a year to tell me she loves me, or to be intimate with me, my conclusion is that OM is still in her heart. That hurts .<P>A person can only take so much rejection. I don't know how your marriage can survive if you have such strong feelings about this OW. I know from my situation that the wounds will not close because of my W's continued emotional distance. She too feels bound by her vows. If that is the only reason she stays.......THAT HURTS .<P>You are very good at expressing the depth of the pain that you feel. I hope I have conveyed the pain of the other side as well.<P>------------------<BR>But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.<BR>Galatians 5:22-23

I am just kind of a bystander that likes to read these post. It is evident that there is an abundace of pain here on these boards.<P>Let me say to "2Sad" and "kuuipo", I don't think "NoMas" is looking for sympathy here,nor is he looking for someone to encourage him or justify him leaving his wife and kids to go be with someone that apparently, he cares very deeply for.<P>Sometimes, it seems like many of us peer over the ledge of this horrible valley and watch people wallow in their misery and sin, we fail to really see what it is they are struggling with. Obviously they are hurting, in need, and "off the path". How else would they have gotten where they are to begin with.<P>NoMas quotes an interesting passage of scripture where Jesus prayed for his tormentors..."Father, forgive them they don't know what they are doing"<P>Perhaps many like NoMas really were vulnerable and deceived to get where he is today. Who of us have never been deceived, or "without sin" qualifying us to "throw the first stone."<P>NoMas...<BR>I believe this person you have grown fond of, is very special indeed. Not one of us bystanders can judge what was in your heart at the time or question the reality of what you felt. Not suggesting you made the best choices here, either. But did you not at one time, have these kind of feelings for your wife? Don't you suppose your friend had similar feelings for her husband? Can you imagine what kind of world this would be, if God answered prayers like you probably prayed to "make an exception this time?"<P>Imagine every marriage that hit dry spells...if God would excuse a divorce because someone more appealing came along? IT would be total chaos.<P>I want you to know how deeply I can appreciate your predictament. You see, I too, find myself in a similar place as you right now. I have struggled for some time, trying to make the right decision, based on what is "Truth" and not on what I "feel". It is a deeply painful struggle. I wish I had some clear cut answers for you to help you find your way back. <P>I will refrain from posting anymore here. I just wanted you to know...that I hear you. You are not claiming to be "right" in your affair. You are not looking for sympathy. You sound like you are just wanting to be "happy" again. You found someone who seemingly has made you happy. I too, would find that difficult to let go of, especially if I had been searching for that for some time.<P>Could it ever work out for you to have this "perfect" person you met to be your wife, and in a way that could bring honor and glory to God, instead of heartache and shame? <P>I guess only God knows. But He did say that "all things were possible". <P>For now...seek Him. Do what you know to be right before Him. Who knows what he has in store for you...<P>Remember this...in closing....<BR>The world would convince you that you have to get things you don't have in order to be happy.<BR>True Happiness...is wanting what you already have.<P>God Bless you and all the others here.

NoMAS..<BR> My sympathy for your pain. After reading the replies on this thread, I realize you are not trying to justify, so much as just state the pain you are in..and much of this reminds my of my H (change 20 years to 18 years, and the background is very similar; he also felt our love was gone, and this was the perfect person for him, in tune with his heart & soul).<BR> I know my H was in incredible pain for months, yet stayed to work in our marriage...which seems to be what you are doing. I respect that. I hope you will find your marriage can be strengthened and improved, as we have. I truly, truly hope that you and your wife will be able to get back to a loving, deeper relationship.<BR> I do think you are handicapping her and the chances of rebuilding by keeping your love affair secret. She cannot really know your soul if you shut this off. Sharing this with her will be quite painful, but holding it secret does two things...it tends to magnify the specialness of the affair, and it robs your wife of the chance to understand you and support you.<BR> Think about it.<P>Hang in there---<BR> Kathi

Two years ago I might have advised someone to follow their heart, to believe in the possibility that maybe you had made a mistake and hadn't found your true love the first time, that sometimes love just dies and its better off left dead. I've read too much now to ever think that again. <P>We all have multiple potential partners who could fulfill most of our needs. There are a select bunch, but still a bunch of people who we could be attracted to.<P>Love doesn't just happen... It is cultivated. The miraculous love that you feel now didn't happen because you both just happened to be in the right place at the right time and it was fate. You made it happen. You planted the seeds, you watered the garden, you kept the sunshine going. The same is true of your relationship with your wife. Lack of cultivation caused the love to wither a bit.<P>The thing is now, you both need to make a decision to replant the seeds. It's not hopeless, and even though you are suffering now you can and will feel the same joy you feel for the OP with your wife. I'm watching it happen in my own little garden.<P>I read that you feel that with school your wife just isn't going to have enough time to take care of the things you need. She will find all sorts of sources of energy to meet your needs if you are meeting hers. Honest!! I can be in the middle of a highly stressful moment and find the energy to go home, make my husband dinner, ask him about his day, play a boardgame with him, get a little frisky etc... It's so much easier when he comes and gives me a hug, tells me he loves me, asks me about my day, offers to help around the house. Joy begets joy. It's contagious. Sometimes not immediate, but it does happen. <P>I know you don't want to right now, but cultivate the love with your wife. Do it as an experiment. It might help you through the withdrawals.<P>Anyway, I here what you are saying NoMas, and I appreciate the fact that you were able to boldly let those of us who have been on the other side get a peek at what might have been going on in our spouses head. My little gift to you.... You've got the power to make positive things happen with your wife. You just have to believe in yourself.

My qustion for everyone is this: Why not take the effort that you are putting into hiding and making affairs work and put it into seducing your wife or husband? Why not just cut the OP out of your life - make a concious decision to not see/speak/write them? If we take on the outlook that we did when we all first got married (everything I do is for my wife/husband) then we wouldn't make selfish decisions like affairs.<BR>But anyway, so what is wrong with starting to feel those feeling and then putting your efforts toward your wife/husband?

thenewbie,<P>You make it sound like it's a very simple thing and that you can turn your emotions on and off at will and direct them to whomever you want whenever you want. Maybe you have that kind of control, but I don't know of anyone else who does.<P>If I hear one more person say "Just do it" or "Why not redirect that energy to your spouse" I think I'm going to scream. You can't give what you don't have. It might be possible to feel love towards your spouse again after feeling the type of love that NoMas is talkiing about. I don't know - I'm in the process of finding out. But I do know one thing. It's not as simple as you make it sound. I never thought I'd be in the position that I'm in. But here I am. Digging your way out of a hole like this one is a long, slow, gut-wrenching process. If I could just snap my fingers and make it happen I would. I think anyone would. It's just not that simple.

2Sad...<BR> <BR>I thank you for sharing your "side of the tracks". Sometimes, I think it is the cold and painful reality of that pain that you express that is the one thing that keeps me from "going over the edge" and following my heart. Don't ever stop sharing that.<BR> <BR>You bring up a valid point on the issue of "repentance." There is quiet a distinction, I believe, from "being sorry" and being truly "repentant". <BR> <BR>We can "make" ourselves "be sorry" or "feel sorry", but I would think "repentance" goes much deeper. <BR> <BR>I can honestly and shamefully admit, that I am "sorry" for what I have done, to my wife, my God, this friend of mine and her husband. But I know I have yet to expereince genuine repentance. That involves a "change of heart". And I get so frustrated looking for that "button" that will "change" my heart.<BR> <BR>I am at a point where I feel incapable of "making myself repentant". It must be a "God thing."<BR> <BR>Not sure if I read you right....does your wife consider her self to be an "active Christian" or DID she consider this before her affair. (I'm not quiet sure of your profile and have not figured out how to read them when all I see is a number that comes up)<BR> <BR>I know the scriptures speak of the "deceptiveness of sin" quite a bit. Deceived people don't know they are deceived.<BR> <BR>Are you and your wife reconciled now? Or just struggling to get things back together?<BR>Do you have reason to believe things are totally over with the OM and her?<BR> <BR>Again...thank you for sharing your pain here. It helps...in a peculiar way.<P>Kam & Beth...<P>For the life of me....as much as my wife should know the extent of my condition, I just don't know that I will ever be able to share my heart with her on this one. That sounds sad..and unfortunate, but it was such a shock for her tot think I could even be attracted to someone else, that to think I actually had "feelings" for someone else would just devesate her. It looks as if I will have to work things out without her knowing all this.<BR> <BR>My fear...is that I am lacking in the "desire, motivation, and energy" department, to where I can muster up what is needed to get to work. I read here where people that have broken off contact for months on end, even up to a year, still have very strong feelings for the "OP". When they are just the click of a mouse or phone call away, for the life of me, I don't know what it will take to keep us from contacting each other. <BR>If there be any benefit to these posts, maybe they will warn others that are too close to that "line" to get back!<BR>

Kuipo and others, you cannot just turn to someone else to have them meet your needs and have it work. You can try all you want to seduce your wife or husband and put every effort that you can into the marriage and it might still not work. My advice to you NoMas is to put a year of real work into your marriage. Do all the things people here are suggesting you do. Tell this woman that you must do this for your own peace of mind and you don't know if you will be back or not. Then at the end of the year if you still do not feel for your wife as you should, then you can leave knowing you did the work and the soul searching. Yes we are planning to marry. We were intimate and we regret it. It was only five times but instead of making things better it of course made them worse. It made them worse because then we had the physical as well as the emotional need for each other. It devistated us. If you had never met this other woman you mabye would not know that there could be more. But then you might have always felt an empitness that you didn't understand. That is how it is for both of us. We both felt this empitness and didn't understand. Now we do. You just cant' turn to someone and say be my lover and my soulmate and my true and best partner and have them just turn into that. We both feel that our spouses never were these things. He has no children but I do so I can't regret my marriage. But knowing him now as I do I know I didn't really ever ever know what a real relationship could be. But a big price has been paid. A very big price. Yes we will marry, but only after we finish our premarriage counseling and feel both ready and we are not there yet.<P>Del

How did you get with your spouse in the first place? Didn't you have feeling like that for him/her? All these little butterflies in your tummy that you have for your current didn't you once have them for your spouse? Don't you respect the committment that you made to him/her/God?<BR>Maybe it is because I am a guy that I can redirect my feeling/energies toward my wife. I am not saying it isn't difficult but not screwing around on my wife isn't the toughest thing I have ever done. You just don't do it. Why can't it be an absolute thing?

Oh No Mas,<P>Does it help you to write this all out? Gosh, I sure wouldn't think so... <P>I just want you to know that I look for your posts, and that I have understanding of your situation on many levels... you are very brave, I think. <P>You didn't ask for my opinion, but I'll give it anyway... you need to make a 100% decision about your wife and your friend. You can't do it half way or it won't ever work. You will be resentful and bitter. You need to choose either/or... not 'try' to end it with the OW and 'try' to love your spouse the way you should. You have to do it all the way... and lord knows it's the most difficult thing you'll ever do.<P>Best wishes, No Mas... sincerely.<P>

2sad, I had to stop at your first post and make a comment. <P>I really commend you on your reply. You really said it, taking a stand, without making yourself the "better" half.<P>I totally agree with you... to all the betrayers, if you really found your "soul mate", hey go for it. Do not do your spouse any "favors" by staying in the institution of marraige. I know as the betrayed I REFUSE to stay under those circumstances. I would NEVER MAKE my s. stay if he really found "true love".<P>Hey, I'd help him pack. In fact, I told him so. (and I mean no disrespect at all). I told him that I was under the false assumption that he was who he said he was and that he was happy, since he never said otherwise, but If he was so unhappy then I would not stop him.<P>The betrayed spouse would also like to find a companion. I mean, I have not even looked. I've just been home, taking care of the kids and house while my H was working side by side with his "soul mate" these past two years. I will NEVER stand in his way. <P>I will NEVER make him feel guilty, or destroy his relationship with his kids. I just needed to know so I can start to find someone who is on the same "wavelength" as me.<BR>

NoMas: Well you are making a decision and that's to break off contact with OW. Now you're next step is to focus on your marriage. I know, I know. Easier said than done. I am there myself. But...we made the decision to move on. Outside of the OW, do you love your wife? Does she still twinge your heart strings even if just alittle? Is there some sexual attraction to your wife? Can you look at her in the face and say I don't need you anymore? If yes to the first 3 and no to the last then you still have feelings for her and leaving her for an OW may be a disasterous mistake. I know that spouse aren't perfect. I know I have one. But, neither are we. We, when making this type of decision need to be sure beyond a reasonable doubt, that the OM/OW is what we want and we are willing to dispose(for lack of a better word) of our current spouses. I think I have said before that the OM that I do love has his faults. Would I be willing to relearn another persons behavior, personality, way of doing things and expectations? I don't know. I will admit that I am comfortable with my spouse despite his demeanor. He is a good hard working individual, good father, perfectionist, helpful and good grandfather. I know his likes and dislikes. I stay with him not because I am comfortable, but because in my heart I still love him. When he is affectionate, which I can count on my fingers the times, he still ignites a spark in my heart. There are alot of things we need to work on and it is a long hard road especially with an individual who does not express emotions well. I have to leave for the day, but I hope to hear from you tomorrow. Hang in there and think about what I said. My love to you.