BC,<P>No one is trying to chase you away from here. Everyone who responds to your Posts is trying to HELP you. We don't want to see you in the same rut day in & day out.<P>You have made progress. Don't give up now! Continue to post. You will receive the support that you need.

Let me second NoTrust...<P>I rarely reply to you, bcs I do not have a lot of insight into your situation...but you are in my thoughts and prayers...<P>Kathi

I third that.<P>bc I posted to you in your thread again. I promise, no matter what you decide to do I will support your decision. When all is said and done this is <B> your </B> life. Only you know how much you can take.<P>However much that is we will be here for you.<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>Hepatitis C, educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://hepatitis-central.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://hepatitis-central.com/</A>

Please don't go BC!<P> I read everything posted to you and try to get it. I don't know why some of us have such a hard time " making the connection"<BR> Speaking for myself, I wonder if it is due to low self esteem, stubbornness, if I really don't love him enough, if I'm just selfish or what. I get tied up in knots just preparing to try and speak to him. His reaction or lack thereof freeze me every time. I feel I am getting stronger, then his cold look, his not speaking, his activities with OW drive me back to square one. Maybe I am not capable of this. I just don't know. I think I am making progress, then I think I have only managed to drive him further away. <P> So, I know this doesn't help you, but know that you are not alone. Some of us have a harder time getting our act together. Maybe I never will. I'm praying for you.<BR>Lora

I am sorry I feel the way I do. I thank everyone who has given support and advice. I realize we have all been down the pathway from h*** in our own way. It is just now everything in my life is dismal. Maybe I am just feeling sorry for myself. <P>My parents think I am crazy for putting up with what I have, my sister doesn't talk to me because she hates my H so much for what he has done, my MIL is sticking up for her son, my rheumatoid arthritis is nearly crippling me and I have just given up.<P>My H robbed me of who I was a happy, friendly, successful, intelligent, loving person and turned me into someone I can't even love so why should he. It may be that I am too thick to think that there is a reason WHY he did or does what he does and that if only I would have done something differently he wouldn't have cheated. Deep down I know there isn't one thing that I actually did that caused this and I am willing to accept my part in a possibly unhappy marriage, but HE is the one that just decided it was over and found someone else. And the icing on all of the cake is that he still can't admit what is going on when I have all the proof in the world and neither can she.<P>I probably am better off without him and someday his alcohol abuse will get him into trouble again (he already had one DUI) and only then maybe he will see what he has done to his life and our marriage.<P>Maybe I need some time away from MB seeing my every move or sentence is so predictable. Believe me if I had my way I would pack all my stuff and leave but I would only be setting myself up for financial ruin. Believe me my H cannot control his spending when he has money. I am worried about my future if it is to be one without him and my credit. Dumb excuses compared to the emotional turmoil I am in Maybe but it is very important to me.<P>So again I apologize for not being able to take your advice even though it is good advice. They say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger well I am not so sure.<P>It is raining outside and I feel as blah as it looks. God help me through this nightmare for I am afraid of where I might end up.

bc,<P>(((((bc))))) Honey I have been exactly where you are at! I wanted to leave my H several times but I loved him and was afraid. I didn't want to be on my own and risk losing everything. I became severly depressed but didn't realize it. I stayed away from friends and family as much as possible. My H took my happiness away slowly before I even realized it. I was an emotional wreck, just as you are now. <P>I had to learn on my own just as you do. I wanted my H back even after he left until he had been gone for a couple of months. I know how you're feeling. It is extremely hard to let go. I know it was for me. And if my H hadn't left, I would probably still be with him and miserable. If I had it to do all over again, I would have left a lot sooner. I am happier now than I have been in 10 years. I'm starting my first job next week and financially, I'm not doing too great but I don't have to give him beer money! <P>As for your house, with my house, I can get my H to sign a form to release him from the debt. His name will be taken off without me having to buy him out and the house won't have to be sold. f you do decide to leave your H, go to your lender and ask if you can do this. It will not hurt your credit to do this. It will just take your name off of the house. <P>Take care, bc,<BR>Mitzi

Mitzi,<P>If only it were that easy to just take my name off the mortgage. The house is worth double what the mortgage is so if I took my name off my H would be getting one h*** of a deal. I currently have another call into my lawyer but he hasn't called back yet. <P>In a way I do feel like just packing up and leaving but wouldn't that be a sign of my weakness? He got home this morning from work at 4:30am and was already having a beer and then went to bed. Not a very good sign.<P>I tried to be very rational this morning and asked him to either deposit money to pay the bills or pay them himself. I know I know again about drinking and the bills enough said I will stop.

Thanks NoTrust for keeping our BC out here and talking......sorry I missed yesterday!!<P>To you, my dear BC....you aren't going anywhere!!!! I'll track you down, woman!!!!! LOL!!! You need us and we need you....got that? Good! Now let's get down to business......<P>I can see more of yourself coming through....I am going to talk about the post you wrote here and then follow me back to your thread and we'll talk about what you wrote there, OK?<P>BIG HUGS are always a good beginning - so accept these for they are the first thing I would give you if I was there in person!!<P>"I am sorry I feel the way I do"<P>We are sorry that you feel that way too!! That is why we are trying to help you feel differently!!!<P>"...now everything in my life is dismal. Maybe I am just feeling sorry for myself."<P>Yes, everything does seem dismal when we don't know why this has happened and what we are supposed to do about it. It is more a situation of being devastated and overwhelmed than it is of feeling sorry for yourself....although you have to be aware and nip in the bud any signs of wallowing in self-pity. That is not healthy and certainly only adds more weight to load you are already carrying.<P>"My parents think I'm crazy for putting up with....,my sister doesn't talk to me because..., my MIL is sticking up for her son, my rheumatoid arthritis ..crippling me and I have just given up."<P>Your parents and your sister love you and don't want to see you hurting anymore. They are reacting to the situation from their own pain and anger over seeing you in such distress. They may think that this will help make you stronger, but infact it just zaps more strength because you now have to feel like you also have to walk on eggshells with them as well as your H....<P>Your arthritis - well, I can't help too much on that. I am also going through some physical pain while in this and I just follow my own methods of what works to ease the flare-ups. Do you have treatments or meds that you need to do to get some relief? Are you neglecting to take care of yourself properly? THIS IS NUMBER ONE on the hit parade of what to do......<P>"Just given up".....no you haven't BC!! You just feel trapped and paralized. <BR>Why do you say this anyway? What is it that you have given up on? Your marriage? Your H? Yourself? Your life? Explain please.....<P>"My H robbed me of......and turned me into someone I can't even love so why should he."<P>Your H cannot rob you of anything!! What has really happened is that your H is messed up and has brought this nightmare into your life. Your world is changing so quickly and uncontrolably that you are just spinning and spinning in the same spot!! Kinda like when you were a little girl and would spin yourself around and around til you got dizzy and fell down.....same thing only he spinned you. Now you are dizzy and fell down!!!!<P>It takes a bit for that "dizzy" feeling to fade away....then you get up and continue on. All your original attributes (happy, friendly, successful, intelligent, loving, etc.) are all still there inside. You are giving your H way to much credit and power over who you are!!! You didn't get your attributes from H - you had them already to share with H. How can HE rob you of them? He can't - it is simply a matter of your burying them yourself. It is an effect of this situation....not something that H did. <P>The nitty gritty at the moment is that you do not love or perhaps even like yourself.....THIS is #2 to work on in the hit parade!!!!!<P>You feel as if "you" are lost forever..<BR>NOT SO!!!! I know cuz I found "me" again and you can too!!!!<P><BR>As far as what you wrote about H and your not knowing the why or what you contributed.....that is not the most important part of this for you right now. You need to get yourself on track first before you could even attempt to figure out the rest of this.<P>He made bad choices for whatever reasons.....His head is confused and you will not say anything to get through his confusion. THEY ALL ACT THIS WAY to some degree!!!!! <P>He is one of the ones who will lie, do what he wants, not admit to anything and blame it on you.....Mine did the same for the most part. SEE, he is not different and you can't make him just like I can't make mine.<P>Oooooh shoot, I just saw the time and I have to jump in the shower for work. Read what I have so far and think of what you can do or more you can tell us of what YOU are feeling about YOU!!! Write it here and I will come back on after work and finish this and see what you (and hopefully others) have added for us to think about.<P>BC - all is not so bad.....we are all on the same road and we must help each other!!!!<P>BIG HUGS and I want you to smile at least once today!!!!<P>Sheba<P>

BC -<P>You posted as I did....<P>I wanted to make sure I told you that you are thinking of too many things at once....<P>Don't worry about what to do with the living arrangements, bills and lawyers, etc. right now, OK? This stuff will be figured out later.<P>The first thing is to get yourself feeling in control of your own emotions enough to be able to make wise decisions.<P>For now, keep things as they are and work on your health and sorting out your own feelings. Accept that you can't change his actions and feel happy that we are here and going to help you figure things out. <P>You are not alone.....<P>

BC,<P>Again, Sheba is offering some words of wisdom. I don't have anything more to add 'cause she covered it all!<P>Just want to remind you that you are a valuable person. We are all pulling for you. You have what it takes to make your life a fulfilling one!

So Sheba,<P>Where do I start???????? If I forget about the financial, lawyers, living arrangements etc. then what do I start with? He is obviously still seeing the OW and lying about it. Do I just go on about my business and life and do the things I want to and try and forget(not an easy pill to swallow) about the OW. This to me means going to all the races and acting like I belong which I actually do more than she does. Will this help my H to see I am interested in our marriage and things we do together. Also give the OW a sign of me not giving up and as she said herself they are only friends so what does she have to be upset about.<P>The big dilemma is when he goes out after for drinks do I go to seeing this in the past makes him feel like I am checking up on him and he has also told me he is on his own and is going to do his own thing and go where he wants to so don't follow. Mainly it must mean going to where she is or can go. Then what? Then I am enabling his alcohol abuse when I shouldn't be.<P>Now what.

Hi Again BC -<P>OK, now this is where I KNOW that you <BR>just want to hear about what to do <BR>that would affect H and/or OW.....<P>This is what we have been trying to <BR>get across to you - what you need to <BR>do and what you can do to affect H and <BR>OW are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.<P>What you should do that would make H <BR>start to come around is ...... <BR>NOTHING!!<P>If that is all you are ever going to <BR>really listen to us about then you <BR>might as well stop right there......<P>BUT, if you want to REALLY know what <BR>you NEED to do right now, then read on <BR>and think and talk with us about what <BR>I say here.....no more ignoring <BR>everything but references to OW and <BR>H.....OK? <P>If you don't get away from such <BR>thinking you will not return to your <BR>old self....we don't want that, do we?<P>The first two things to start with are <BR>your health (#1 mentioned in my <BR>previous post) and your self-esteem <BR>rebuilding (#2 in my previous post). <BR>These two things must start getting <BR>your thoughts and attention.<P>I would like you to begin telling us <BR>about your physical health and about <BR>how you feel about yourself when you <BR>post. This is a step to getting the <BR>rock off of your soul enough to begin <BR>thinking rationally and intelligently <BR>about what the next steps should be as <BR>far as interaction with/without H.<P>To calm you enough for the time being, <BR>I will address what may be a safe way <BR>for you to handle current interactions <BR>with H.....<P>Look BC, this is the situation....your <BR>husband is having an affair, has a <BR>drinking problem and has a lot of <BR>crazy thinking going on in his head. <BR>When he is doing his "thing" you do <BR>not even enter his thoughts let alone <BR>enter into them as far as what is <BR>right or wrong. He is not being like <BR>this on purpose or just to be mean to <BR>you.....he is doing all this because <BR>he is an unhappy person running from <BR>the reality of life.<P>Until HE is ready to stop running and <BR>face his own feelings - you have to <BR>leave him be. You have to stop trying <BR>to pry the truth out of him and you <BR>have to stop thinking about him and <BR>the marriage.<P>What YOU WANT to do is what you need <BR>to think about. If you really want to <BR>go to the races then you go.....BUT - <BR>and I cannot stress this enough - <BR>don't expect that cuz you go H is <BR>gonna care!!!! He might not like it <BR>or he might....doesn't matter!!!! It <BR>is about what you really want and <BR>like. OW means nothing to you so <BR>right now you have to get that through <BR>your head!!! I don't care if you <BR>think that your head is too thick - <BR>you HAVE TO stop making her matter to <BR>you!!!! Otherwise you might as well <BR>invite her into the house and your bed <BR>yourself, cuz you are giving in to her <BR>by playing her game. Do you <BR>understand?<P>As far as going out after the races, I <BR>would not go to a bar at all....I <BR>would ask if he would like to go <BR>somewhere to grab a bite to eat or a <BR>cup of coffee or something. If he is <BR>not interested - then just say <BR>"fine....great race, huh? I will see <BR>ya later!!!" with a big smile and a <BR>happy tone.<P>Do not go if you are just going to <BR>look for H to pay you attention or to <BR>ignore OW or anything like that. You <BR>will only set yourself up for more <BR>hurt. When he is with this "fantasy" <BR>OW and people of like <BR>mind.....remember that you do not <BR>exist. You are reality and he is in <BR>fantasy. <P>Nobody there cares who is more <BR>entitled to be there....heck, they <BR>don't care about their own values and <BR>what's right and wrong so why would <BR>they apply it to you? Don't expect <BR>others to give you respect or show <BR>concern....IT WON'T HAPPEN!!!! They <BR>don't respect themselves and are not <BR>concerned about anything other than <BR>their own selfish wants and needs.<P>Anything you do or say is not going to <BR>matter one little bit to H or OW while <BR>they are together in this "fantasy <BR>Island" of theirs. If you really <BR>enjoy the races and you decide to go, <BR>keep your head high, your mood up by <BR>smiling and laughing and talk with <BR>other people if they are inconsiderate <BR>of you.<P>DO NOT LET THEM SEE that they are <BR>affecting you.....that will make their <BR>bond stronger and your esteem lower. <BR>It's sort of like the bully kids at <BR>school.....did you ever notice that <BR>they are meaner when they are in a <BR>group? <P>I don't think that you are ready to do <BR>this....you need more growth and <BR>understanding of what you are dealing <BR>with before attempting such a big <BR>task.<P>I would rather see you start doing <BR>some activities on your own first, <BR>then after gaining some self <BR>confidence - you can try this.<P>About the financial, lawyers, living <BR>arrangements, etc......<P>I look at it this way, you have been <BR>living with things the way they are <BR>for a while and all that has really <BR>been bad about it are your emotions. <BR>Changing these things now will not <BR>change your low emotional health. YOU <BR>have to do that yourself.<P>Whether H is living with you or not - <BR>you will still be dwelling on him <BR>right? Yes - you will cuz you haven't <BR>stopped it yet. The finances - will <BR>get paid, have to get paid no matter <BR>what game of push and pull you attempt <BR>to play with them. The lawyer - keep <BR>the law out of it until you get your <BR>own head on straight. Your lawyer is <BR>not your or your H's father and will <BR>not be able to make things better for <BR>you by making H be a good boy!!!!<P>It may come to your having to change <BR>any or all of these things.....but not <BR>now. You are not ready.<P>It is up to you BC.....will you now <BR>make a decision to talk to us about <BR>yourself and to stop just posting <BR>about H and OW?<P>If you don't - then you won't move <BR>anywhere with this. You won't get <BR>stronger and you won't get to a place <BR>where you can show H (through your <BR>higher self-esteem and determination) <BR>that you can stand on your own two <BR>feet and return to the woman he <BR>married. I only say this about what <BR>he will see eventually because that is <BR>the only thing that may help him to <BR>turn to you when he comes back to <BR>reality.<P>The longer you resist starting on YOU, <BR>the longer and harder this is going to <BR>be.<P>It is your choice....we are here for <BR>you either way, but can only help you <BR>if you decide to get "unstuck"<P>Big Hugs,<P>Sheba<P>PS - I forgot to ask you....Did you <BR>smile today?<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Sheba (edited May 19, 2000).]

YES, YES, YES SHEBA!!!! BRAVO! What can I say, my hat goes off for you! DANG! If only I could have your great communication skills, I wouldn't make people want to leave this forum!!! BC, please stay, and we can both learn how to dwell on the negative feeling we give our husbands the power to drop on us and let's work on our selves! Lord know's I need all the help I can get!

I hate to say this but it is over with my H. I have come to the point in time and place that I have to call it quits. The continued lies, and cheating became to much for me to handle. I asked my H this morning to look me in the eye and tell me truthfully what is going on. He couldn't do it he just said nothing. <P>Well and I know I may take some flack for this but I needed real proof that he was lying for I so much wanted to believe him. I knew in my gut that they had him and the OW spent the day together at the lake. So my H went to work and I went to the lake. I found all the proof I needed and some I really didn't need to see. It was all there her clothes her underware the bed was all made with her stuff candles everywhere just like there own little "love nest". If I had gone there Tuesday I am sure I would have go more than I bargained for.<P>Now I only feel dirty. He came home this morning and sleep in the same bed as me. He must be in a fantasy land and it completely disgusts me that he has been with her even though I knew in my heart he had. The salt is in the wound and he has only been using me for the past eight months. <P>When he gets home from work it most likely will be the end. I am going to tell him to get out of the house. I will not put up with the lies and cheating anymore while he still lives here. It is not fair. <P>How can the one we thought we loved and they cared for us be so low. This OW is a bar fly, fat, not very good looking, and down right disgusting but I guess he loves her.<P>I will make them pay for the pain I have suffered and the embarassement that I continue to be put through by her and her family. The doormat is gone. sorry for those who don't like that term but it is truly what I feel like. USED AND ABUSED mentally if not physically.<P>My mother said maybe this is the hard evidence I needed to be able to move on in my life. I am sorry that I have given up believe me I have tried very hard to make things work but now he can go and live with the OW if he chooses for 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Then we will see what a nice person she is?????<P>I am feeling sooooooooooooo empty.

((((bc))))<P>I'm sorry for your pain. Maybe seeing what you saw at the lake opened up your eyes?? Perhaps now you can move forward with your life.<P>I really don't understand why some betrayers continue to lie when all of the hard evidence is revealed and exposed. What's the point?<P>I think it just shows how deep of a fantasy they really are in. They continue to lie to their spouse AND to themselves.<P>Just stay strong bc. You can do it! You are a valuable person. Keep taking care of yourself. Put yourself first. You deserve it!

NoTrust,<P>I think you are right that after seeing it first hand it somehow might allow me to move on with my life. I had just hoped and prayed it wouldn't be true but my gut told me different. I couldn't take my H looking me in the eyes and telling me there wasn't anything going on and she wasn't at the lake. I knew in my heart it was all a lie. The thing that hurts the most is the fact he couldn't and wouldn't admit to the truth after everything I knew.<P>Will the fantasy ever end and come crashing down on them both? I hope so that way they too can feel the horrible pain I have felt for the past eight months. How selfish can they be to only think of themselves not to mention it ruined to marriages and has torn her kids apart too. I realize they both had choices but took the wrong ones. <P>I just got out of a long hot bath in a way I felt dirty after seeing what I did. Like my H has made me dirty because of the OW. Kinda sad huh?

I would have taken a nice hot bath too. Maybe it helped to relax you? Who knows when those 2 will ever wake up from LaLaLand. That shouldn't be your concern now. They dug their own ditch...now they can lie in it and deal with the conseqences themselves!<P>Now, what are you going to do? Maybe you should call some friends and go out this evening...

I don't have a lot of friends and the ones I do have have young kids so on a moments notice can't really go out. There is one I could call and maybe she could get away for a few hours. You are right that they made their bed and now must lie in it. I doubt now it will be so comfortable, all the secretiveness and lies will all be gone. Then to maybe the fantasy who knows I am not interested in that right now. Believe it or not and I may get flamed for this I am actually very angry and hateful towards my H right now. Earlier I was contemplating smashing his truck windshield but decided better of it. Already broke and entered once today but it was marital property and just like I can't lock him out of the house he can't lock me out of the lake "loveshack". I just let myself in. If I didn't laugh right now I would cry.

bc,<P>That really peeves me that your H took stupid OW to YOUR lake house.<P>No, I won't flame you. My H & I have been in recovery for over a year. My feelings for our former OW haven't subsided. I still want to punch her in the face (I'll probably get flamed for that one)....and yes....sometimes I still do feel anger at my H. I doubt if I will ever heal completely from it.

NoTrust,<P>This is the place that he supposedly bought for me. Then he has the nerve to take her there and by the looks of things moved in quite nicely. He is at work right now and not sure how long he will be there. I don't know how to handle things when he gets home. I really want to let him have it now that I have all the proof in the world that his lies were lies and so were hers.<P>Maybe if I fling him a pair of her underwear he'll get the message without me opening my mouth. I have so much anger and hatred inside against the both of them right now. She was so smug on the phone the other night knowing that she had been with him but having selective amnesia about everything. That they were only friends and if I had marital problems I should talk to my H. I did tell her that he comes home at night and sleeps with me. Wonder how she liked that even though I only meant that he sleeps in the same bed. and now not any more.