I am still having a depressing weekend. And it's not because I am not seeing by H. He took the girls for friday night...took S to soccer and then to a movie on Sat. and now says he'll be here today....<P><BR>I'm having a depressing weekend because I keep wondering what you possibly gain by lying??????<P>My H is still in deep denial re: the affair. He will say "she's not the problem " and "I don't know" when I ask how long it has been going on, but he will not talka bout it, denies it is anything other than a work relationship to his mom and siblings and when her H has called me with info he denies that too!!!<P>Op moved out last week. TIred of my H's procrastination. SHe moves out on Mother's day...bold isn't she!!!!! When her H called to tell me that and I mentioned it to him he acted like he didn't even know!<P>Now, she works with him...all day....she is his assistant.....they drive together from office to hospitals. Do you suppose I am to believe that she (the one with the really big mouth who talks to her H hours during the day and night and to my H at night on phone ) did not tell him????<P><BR>Do you think he thinks he can pull this off as looking like it happened innocently.<P>At the counselor's last week he told the counselor (along with the fact that he was not going to talk about her she;s not the problem) that everyone knows about the situation because of me..<P>OK, there is another good one...He works with OP all day.....sometimes 10 hours and on weekends....he drives in car with her...she is seen walking the halls with him, at lunch with him (none of this I suspect mind you, because he's never mentioned any problems, came home every night at a reasonable time, sat and had dinner with me and the kids, helped with homework, told me he loved me (and I him) ), then he goes on a 10 day overseas business trip (he calls me from there every ohter day)....with OP and he comes home like he's possessed.....and very grandiose and condescending......and then the lies......<P>Now everyone in town knows that he walked out on me and the kids shortly after the trip......they saw them together....they noticed she lost a lot of weight, started wearing makeup and provacative cloths....<P>Plus there was an article in the paper regarding their trip in which they were interviewed...she says "I talked him into going on the trip" and other things and people in the communnity, one being my D';s counselor, tell me you can see by the article that they have crossed the lines.....<P>I have never known this man to lie...I have always known him to be able to think for himself......He's not even remotedly the same man...<P>Plus, other betrayers on this board will tell their spouses they are happy, or at least they look happy. My H looks miserable...NOt only here, but at work I am told.....in the hospital...he knows this has ruined his reputation....he has lost the respect of his family, friends and colleagues.....<P>Her H tells me they are fighting.....the "mouth" as I've begun to call her because she is always talking to either her H or my H about her relationship with my H......(I don't know when she takes care of her kids) will call her H during the day and say....."I;m getting so tired of his not making up his mind" and she';ll tell her H "we're going to talk, maybe I'll leave with You", then apparently they make up or keep lying and then they are talking again.<P>I have in the past, calmly talked with my H re: the lies. He tells me he can't tell me why he is lying. I have tried to tell him that I will accept whatever he has to say....if it's that they've slept together, or the affair has gone on for years....or he's in love with her whatever....just stop lying.<P>He'll lie in counseling or to me and then call and tell me he is sorry for putting me through so much pain. He'll e-mail that he hopes I'll understand and forgive what he can't explain to me now.....<P>What could he not explain to me now.....that he is lying???? that he is having an affair which I already know about????? that he can't help it......????? <P>I have a distinct memory of him telling our son last year how important it is to tell the truth. He told him no matter how hard it is or how much trouble you think you will get in...you have to do the right thing.<P>Now he tells me everyone keeps secrets...everyone lies....how did he get so brainwashed....<P>I know there are no anwsers to this...I just find it so incomprehensible that someone could lie and hurt another "human being" (that being me and the kids) despite what failings I've had as a wife. (which by the way he cannot come up with anything....it keeps changeing)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tootrusting:<BR><B>I'm having a depressing weekend because I keep wondering what you possibly gain by lying??????</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If it's any consolation, my H is doing the same thing. He's trying to make it look like it didn't happen or that I caused it to happen or that I am just making stuff up and he has no idea why I'd think such things--- but he talks to ME about some of the stuff!<P>I think it's an attempt to retain some dignity. I think these type of guys know what they are doing is wrong, don't want to stop, but want to keep the facade of being a "good guy" to the public. they must not realize how absurd it all seems.<P>I've begged my H for the truth telling him that only when it is out can we truly begin working on OUR problems and healing. Every time he swears that I know everything, there is another bombshell just waiting to go off. <P>I don't know if that ever changes. I used to think my H was the most honest and honorable person in the world. Funny how infidelity changes everything... or maybe it just brings the truth of his character out where it can be seen?

What causes people to lie is that they think they can keep all the "good" stuff and not deal with the "bad" stuff. People DO lie all of the time. Not that it is right. I'm sure there have been times when you have lied about something you consider inconsequential. It is a matter of degree. Ask yourself why you might have lied in the past (even about something little) and you will begin to know the answer to your question. Even with the big stuff (like infidelity) the person has convinced themselves that their lies are inconsequential, or they are simply too afraid to tell the truth. Fear is the source of many evils in the world. People will do outrageous things because of their fear and to avoid pain. Sad.

So sorry you are having such a tough weekend. You can hear it in all your recent posts. <P>I wonder since your h is such a public figure and very well known if he in some way things that his reputation is still in tact. <P>As you know, My h is also a public figure and very well known. He can walk around town as if he did nothing wrong. People still talk to him like nothing happened. But, the second he walks away, they talk behind his back. Everyone thinks he is an [censored]**** but they will not treat him differently. That bothers me. When they are not treated bad by others it helps them justify what they did. In some way I think it makes me look bad because people must be saying to themselves oh she must have been a bad wife or something...However, I find comfort knowing that most people in this town who know OW are appalud that my h is anywhere near her. <P>I can totally relate to the b rainwashing thing as well. My h had turned into OW. When he talks its as if she is talking. She has spent her life being a manipulator and justifing everything she has done. Well, that is exactly what he is doing now...<P>My h also seems very depressed and does not physically look good at all. I told his mother I didn't think he looked good. She didn't comment. In her mind her son is her son and always will be and she will do anything to protect him. She said he told her that he is most happy when he is with OW.<P>OUCH!! THAT HURTS<P>Well, I tell you I don't think he is truly happy. He will never have the life he had with me and the kids with her. Its just not possible. Perhaps in time if he stays with her, he will find some peace but I highly doubt it. <P>Don't kill yourself trying to figure out the lies. I have been lied to so many times. They become a master at it. Almost as if its how they make their living. You can't change that and until he is ready to come clean with you, he will continue to lie.<P>Hang in there. Maybe you need to Plan b him at this point and not be there for him. It sounds like you still see him alot. I don't see my h at all unless my kids have a game. Even then, we don't talk much. It seems to help a little since I don't have to hear any more lies. It also helps not seeing him as much because I tend not to miss him as much. When I do see him frequently, that is when I miss him. I tell you though when you sit back and think about all the pain this person has caused you, you start to ask yourself why do I still love someone that has treated me so badly.... <P>Keep your chin up girl...

tootrusting,<P>It sounds like your H, like mine, is having a hard time staying away from you...do you feel that way or is he just around for the kids? My H has been here a lot, but just got his apartment yesterday, so that will probably change. They just don't know what they want. Their old lives seem so great to them some days, then the fantasy starts again. I wish he knew how freeing it is to start to be honest, especially for himself. <P>As bad as this all is...at least now I know. Sure, I knew it before on some level, but hearing the words from H mouth about what he did was what I needed and thank God, he finally told me everything. The lying is the worst part. I never would have thought that was true, it really surprised me. I feel like I can get over the sexual end of this, but boy...the lies he told...for years, whew...mind blowing stuff.<P>How do you make him be honest with you? I don't know. For me it was a reciept I found for purchases at a grocery store, wine, bread, ect...(yuck). I sat him down at a good time (he'd been drinking) and told him..."Now is the time. I need to hear it all now. You will tell me."<P>The best and worst moment of my life followed as I heard the horrible truth.<P>Now...I don't have to look at phone logs anymore. I don't have to check pockets and reciepts. And I never will again. If he ever comes home and we work this out I have to be in a place in my own life where I can walk past a pile of charge card reciepts and not have the least bit of interest them.<P>This weekend does suck Tootrusting. I feel a bit stronger today than yesterday though and I hope you do too.<P>Keep posting<BR>allison

The secrecy is one of the allures of an affair. Doing something that is Taboo hightens the rush. How many times did we (and now our kids) do something because they know they shouldn't. My wife denied her affair until I suspected enough and did enough snooping to present her with undeniable evidence (e-mails).<P>Once this was out in the open for us, she still refused to talk about it using the same story Tootrusting's spouse did. "He's not the problem, you are" (meaning me). While I was obsessed with the affair, my wife trivialized it. She has provided me with no details of virtually anything regarding it other than a brief timeline (when did she start feeling like this, when did it begin). In my obsession, I too needed to know all and her refusal to answer any questions drove me to near insanity.<P>I have learned that if I ask her something and expect her to lie that I just won't ask. It doesn't make sense to me to "set her up". My "don't ask/don't tell" does seems to have some effect. My wife and I hardly talked at all about anything 6 weeks ago except when necessary. We now engage in converstion over a variety of things (just not the issues between us). I think she feels that we can now have "non-threatening" conversations. Once she's more at ease, we may be able to work up to the hard stuff. As long as I can demonstrate that I will not judge or become defensive, we may be able to crack this wall.<P>Allison: I agree with you that once I knew, as hard as it was to face, I felt better. I did not like playing detective as I too now became a deceiver. The things she wrote to him (some about me) were terribly painful to read. <P>Missy9 is right when she says he won't "come clean" until he's ready. My wife will eventually have to deal with shame of her affair and the pain it has caused all concerned. The trick for me is to somehow continue with my life and still preserve what's left of my love for her. If we begin the path to reconciliation, then we will work on trust and respect.

Hi,<P> My H won't stop lieing either. I get paronoid about it every once in awhile and wonder if I have blown everything out of proportion and drove him to her. Then I remember about the 6 months before I knew, and how he stopped having sex with me during that time and exhibited all the other betraying behavoirs too. <BR> But it is alittle extra cruelity I think for them to have us doubting out own instincts. We have already lost trust in the person who means so much to us and then we are afraid to trust ourselves too.<BR>Lora

As you all know...<BR>...I try and keep a list of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000013.html" TARGET=_blank>Notable Posts/Threads</A>.<P>"This" thread... reminds me of a recent post...<BR>...ask for yourself...<P>Are <B><I>these</I></B> decisions... really decisions to lie...<P>See for yourself... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/002961.html" TARGET=_blank>2Sad...this is REALLY GOOD!</A><P> <P>Jim

My H would lie and lie until I snooped for concrete evidence. Then when I would confront him....he did one of two things.....walk out and come back the next day or say "I didn't want to tell you because I knew it would hurt you more".<P>Usually if I did find something....(my excuse for snooping was that I "didn't" want to find anything....you know, trust again)....He would call me from a pay phone and say he wasn't coming home. He played the cat and mouse game.....I knew I had found something touchy when he didn't come home after being confronted.<P>They play this wonderful game.....lie and lie.....but one day they get caught up....my H is in the evaluations for custody...I am reading more and more descrepancies sp?? in everything he told me....<P>Of course the biggest lies of all.....he still denies the affair and the abuse.<P>Nancy

Hmm this sure was a bad weekend.<P> I just wanted to say..thank you lord..thank you for all of these great people on this board. I also wanted to say thank you..to our wayward spouses. Thank you for all of the good times and memories. I pray that all of our wayward spouses "see the error their ways" and come clean..we all deserve the truth.<P>Good luck everyone