I don't know exactly where I am at this point. I suppose there has been progress, but too often I have gotton sucked into the mess myself via having OP's H call me.\<P>This has not only given OP power over me, but made me so angry I have to spit when I mention her name.<P>I can see by reading betrayer's posts, that even when they have NEVER actually laid eyes on the person, they have this belief that this person is SOOOOOOOOOO good, SSOOOOOOOO wonderful, SOOOOOOO everything. From the outside (the WS)it looks so INSANE.<P>In my H's case the op is a manipulative coworker who in EVERYONE else's eyes is a loony toon on a power trip. My h sees her as this altruistic caring wonderful allgiving person.<P>He has been hoodwinked..She has done it over the past 2 years. She has filtered info to and from his office...she has controlled the conversation, she has played herself as the victim, she has acted like she feels "so bad" aabout me and the kids....<P>No matter that she has "dissed" his wife of 13 years and three small kids by calling herself the office wife to my face, by going after a married man while she herself is married. No matter she professes that whoever doesn't believe in the bible literally is misguided...No matter that she leaves her h on mother's day and has him take the kids. no matter any of these things...she is mother teresa to him.....<P>I did well staying out of the name calling at first, but on some recent discussions I have "dissed" her.<P>My h is not going to hear it...In fact doing this will only hurt....<P>I am telling myself, and I believe..she is nothing......I now have to act like it......<P>He must be "feeling" so good he cannot view her as she really is!!!!!!<P>Plus, now I can see she WANTS her h to call me with info......that is one of her manipulative tactics.....Her H is even more hoodwinked than my H!!!!!! She will call him from work to complain about my H and his procrastination!!!!!! <P>If my H and I ever get together again, I don't know how I am ever going to be able to tolerate his getting over his feelings for her!!!!!!! Especially, when I have warned him gently about other women and especailly her....He would always dismiss it and say, "Ilm never going to leave you" "I love YOu".....HA!

Tootrusting:<P>Please let me tell you from long experience you cannot do anything to change your H mind about the "wonderfulness" of the OW. If it is possible for him to come out of the fog he has to do it. <P>You probably realize that continuing to contact OW's H is counterproductive to your situation. A manipulating OW will use anything she can to get her own way including using exH to do her dirty work for her. <P>Don't let her pull you down to her level. Your concern is your relationship with your H. Take this time to examine your marriage and determine what went wrong and try to correct it...that's really all you can do. Take care of yourself and continue to Plan A. <P><BR>

Yes I know!!! I was doing a good job. I lost it recently due to her H's calls to me.<P>I should have known better. I did get sucked in. I'm OK now.. I am really screening my phone calls. Besides...she is nothing!!! Just something to JUST SAY NO TO!!!<P>Our counselor thinks we won't get anywhere with her in the picture...but I'll let him tellhim that!!!!

TT,<P>I am no expert on this - in fact i am going thru something very similar - H loves me but feels he needs a girlfriend at work because she understands him in ways that i cannot - because I am not in the same environment and I don't know his bosses as well. <P>By talking to her H - you are not only getting information that OW wants you to know so that you will do more LB, but her H probably tells her how upset her and H's actions are making both of you. I know it will be difficult - but please please stop talking to him. Knowing that you know everything from her H, and finding out what her H tells her gives her the upper hand. She is basically writing the entire script on how you should act to LB your H and you are following it. <P>I know this because I cannot stop myself from calling OW's house when my H is on his way home from work each night to see if he is on the phone w/ her. Stupid me - because when i find out that they are on the phone - I start to cry - H gets annoyed w/ me and she goes to sleep w/ a smile on her face because H just has more stuff to complain about me to her and she has opportunity to say yes i see why you are so miserable at home. Meanwhile I've always done everything for him. Even on mothers day when he called me on the second line from bed upstairs to tell me he would like a cup of coffee. I plan A'd and brought it up to him. - he never even said happy mothers day.<P>Sam

Yes I know. I never really called him. I only called him back when he was calling on the cell phone and it went out and we were in the middle of a conversation.<P><BR>I got a caller ID. But the last call was on call waiting early in the AM (he had never called me in the am). THe number wasn't on the box and I thought it was about my daughters car pool......<P>I did call him back after the last call re: OP moving out, just to tell him not to call. I said it nicely and told him we are hearing things third hand....it's not helpful...I wished him luck whichever direction he wanted to take, but I was taking care of me and the kids. <P>I know she is manipulating him to call me. Sometimes she has had him call to try to find out if H is getting near me..ie...hugging or kissing (which he is by the way). I was so p*****. I told h that, though calmly and told him she could call me to ask me herself.<P>That time it actually started a fight between OP and H. In fact many times her h has called I've passed the info along calmly and selectivly and it caused fights between the two. <P>I know this last time she wanted me to know she moved out!!!!!! What she doesn't realize is that I'm over it!!!!!! I don't care what the two of them do...Frankly....this is better.....even if he ends upsleeping with her.<P><BR>My h is feeling so guilty now....I see it...he acts that way around the kids... he will be mean to me and then apologize for treating me badly or e-mail me or call me a few times during the day. <P>He knows how I feel about moving in with her or staying at her apt or having her stay at his.......it will tear him up.....I don't have to say a word..<P>He may be trying to tell himself and everyone else that they are just work buddies....but....we'll see . The faster they get together the faster they'll hit reality......<P>But thanks......I do need to be reminded...to stay where I have been in my head...strong......<P><BR>As long as I keep planning like I have an escape route, then I am ok.......You know, like I could succeed at plan B, find a place of my own, get a job, <P>It's just when he sucks me back in...like telling me he wants to go to counseling and then getting there and starting his "moonie" talk again...that I lose it....I think Hey, we might be getting somewhere and then...<P>he goes into denial and says vague stuff about me...and the marraige.....<P><BR>

she's just slime, and you need to keep up the "indifference" line, for your own sanity. my H's OW is this drunk who sleeps with everyone in every office, and one guy drank himself to death over her, when she informed him she was getting back with my H! then she keeps blaming my H for the whole thing, yet he is just SO in love with her, and they have such a CONNECTION, and he just WON'T give her up, even though she's engaged to some poor other fool. it's just sick, and you have to keep above it all.

lwb, have you tried planB???? This connection thing is ridiculous....I don't want to get people angry...yes you should have connections with the people you love...but can someone explain to me how this connection is this wonderful thing that it will make you give up the connection with your 5 year old D, your 9 year old son, and your mom and your brothers and sister??????

yeah, i don't get it. Im a stay at home mom with 2 tiny babies (2 and a half and 7 months), and for most of my pregnancy he lived with OW without my knowledge, and only came home on the weekend to treat me as his mistress (it was a work thing, he was far from home). i should have plan b'd then, if id have KNOWN!<BR>anyway, at his insistence and for my peace of mind, im going to visit friends for an extended visit and get my head sorted out and him his. he claims OW dumped him and he's now worthless, but i don't know... there's that "connection" and all. ugh.

lwb....You can do it...I am convinced that they will come to their senses....it's just too illogical to not do so...<P>I like the idea of getting away...I am going to do that too. My H has had a very hard time when I was away....I took the kids to his moms for easter and he stayed here....kind of funny for a man who said he didn't feel a connection to the house either...<P>Check out my post about the AHA....<P>I think with these men....we may really have to take ourselves out of the picture.....for them to get it...but you really have to draw the line in the sand and mean it.<P>I'll keep reminding myself that also