Hi to you all<P>I need some advice please.<P>My H had an affair 14 months ago and he only told me on Sunday that he was finally over her, this really hurt a lot but he said he didn't want to seperate but he wishes he was happier so, I got myself ready to do some serious plan Aing and today he dropped a bombshell.<P>He came home from the gym later than usual and told me he was going out with a friend for a few drinks, I asked him why this particular guy cos he has a bad track record for womanising and he is also seperated, they have been friends since they were 16.<P>He said that he was depressed and needed to talk to another man, I asked him why he wouldn't talk to me and he said he has said all he has to say. I got really upset and started crying cos I know he was unhappy and it was with me.<P>He said he loved me to bits but he was not in love with me and could never see himself feeling that way towards me again. I told him I wasn't in love with him either but I was willing to do what it takes to try and make it work. He said we have spent the past 14 months trying and nothing happened. I told him we were not trying, I couldn't cos of all the hurt and anger I felt towards him and he wasn't trying cos he was still thinking of her.<P>I told him about Marriage builders and plan A etc and he said it was bull.... he said he would feel stupid and dishonest and only fooling me and himself if he started saying and doing things he didn't really mean.<P>Where do I go from here? He has gone out now to meet this friend and I am afraid of what the friend might advise him, not that he is easily led but maybe cos he is feeling so low he will just give up and leave, he said there is no point going on and pretending that we are fine when both of us know that we are not happy.<P>Please help<P>Gabrielle

Those are horrible words to hear, so heartbreaking. The only thing I can think of when the WS is so blatantly uncaring in their words and unwilling to reconnect, is Plan B.<P>Plan B can be so effective, yet, with Plan B, there's the chance and possiblity of the WS staying away for good. It's such a crap shoot. <BR>I don't know if you are ready for something so drastic. Perhaps a few weeks of INTENSE Plan A first, so he will know what he'd be missing if he left.<P>I will say a special prayer that somehow, someway, he will realize what he is throwing away.<P>I am so sorry, Gabrielle.<P>Catnip =^^=

As far as I know PLAN B can only be effective if one has done a really good PLAN A before that. And I've heard that 6 months is a good estimate for the duration of PLAN A.<P>I recommend PLAN A.<P>scandinavian

Catnip<P>Thank you for your post<P>I cried when I received it, its good to know there is good people out there who are so willing to try to help.<P>How do I plan A<P>I dont have the harley book, is it in the QA part of this forum.<P>Love Gabrielle

Scandinavian<P>Thanks for that.<P>Maybe he will come home tonight and say he wants to seperate after talking to his friend and if he does its his loss and if he doesn't I will try my best at plan A but I'm not sure what to do to plan A except what I read in the posts like meeting his needs etc but before he went out I asked him what I could do to meet his needs and he said nothing.<P>What hope do I have (none by the looks of it)<P>gabrielle

Hang in there, Gabrielle! I got my H to take the needs questionnaire. He basically answered it that he didn't *want* me to meet any of his needs. So I went ahead and tried to meet the needs of a "typical" man. Believe me - it helped. It also helped me to read the whole Divorce as Friends website: <A HREF="http://www.divorceasfriends.com." TARGET=_blank>www.divorceasfriends.com.</A> It helped me to let go of H in order for him to *want* to return. It is part of a website with some really good information there - not just on divorcing. <P>There's also a lot of good information on this MB site. Read everything you can!<P>Childless

gabriellec,<P>I'd suggest you go to you local library and see if it, or an affliated library, has a copy of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A>!<P>The book's contents aren't online...<BR>...but many of us (including me) post quotes frequently... like... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Plan A: Avoid <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3401_angry.html" TARGET=_blank>angry outbursts</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3402_disrespect.html" TARGET=_blank>disrespectful judgments</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3404_selfish.html" TARGET=_blank>selfish demands</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3403_annoy.html" TARGET=_blank>annoying behavior</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3405_dishonesty.html" TARGET=_blank>dishonesty</A> (i.e. <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>!) at all costs. (page 75 of SAA)...<B>and</B> at the same time, if your spouse would let the you, you should try to meet your spouse's most important <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A> (page 77 of SAA) that is...<BR><OL TYPE=1><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3305_aff.html" TARGET=_blank>Affection</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3310_sex.html" TARGET=_blank>Sexual Fulfillment</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3315_conv.html" TARGET=_blank>Conversation</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3320_rec.html" TARGET=_blank>Recreational Companionship</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3325_hon.html" TARGET=_blank>Honesty and Openness</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3330_att.html" TARGET=_blank>An Attractive Spouse</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3335_fin.html" TARGET=_blank>Financial Support</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3340_dom.html" TARGET=_blank>Domestic Support</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3345_fam.html" TARGET=_blank>Family Commitment</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3350_ad.html" TARGET=_blank>Admiration</A></OL><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><B>WilliamJ</B> was kind enough to post to <B>SDS</B>... a lot of the quotes (I once sent him) straight from the book! See ===><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/003033.html" TARGET=_blank>Need Support problems with OW</A>.<P>Also, please check out the <B>Plan A</B> and <B>Plan B</B> "sections" in my <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000013.html" TARGET=_blank>Notable Posts/Threads</A> post!<P> <P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited May 23, 2000).]

Gabriellec,<BR>Welcome to the world of plan A, I don't know if you remember to much about me but I did plan a from afar for 7 months before I got much of a response then the next two months I got resposnses and now we have been together for a week. But back to plan A. Since when is it a bunck of bull to care about other people or just being nice to them? That is where you need to start. Just being polite sending him cards of encouragement like I know you are down if there is any thing I can do to help you let me know, or I am sorry you are having a rough day, if you need s ahoulder I am here. Things like that. Avoid all confrontations if he wants to go out with his friend let him in fact tell him you hope he has a good time. <P>Now I know you are hurting but at this point in time to let it out in front of him is the wrong thing to do. It just drives him away. DO the little things for him That is the start of plan A. Take that first step. We will be here to listen to your pain, to hold your hand when you are so frustated because he doesn't respond, we will listen to you when you want to scream and we will scream right along with you. We will send hugs to you when he doesn't want to hug you and we will send all our prayers to you to help you through this. You can do this. I know I have done it and so have so many others.<P>{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Definately do not try to tell him who he can hang out with or who he should listen to.. this will anger him and make him feel controlled. You, I am sure are talking to your friends.. let him talk to his. I know you consider the friend a bad influence.. but you know, you might be surprised.. his friend might tell him to stick things out.. that life out there is not as great as it seems... so don't assume the worst!<P>When things seem calm and unemotional try to talk to him again.. tell him about how a marriage can not be worked on when the affair was not over yet. Ask him to just give you and the marriage some finite time period of his choice while you seek out counseling. If he does not go to counseling, you should go anyway for the help that you will need to be strong through this experience. Also, check out <A HREF="http://www.retrouvaille.org" TARGET=_blank>www.retrouvaille.org</A> They have a fantastic success rate on turning around marriages on the brink of divorce.. both people have to agree to go though. Try to do a few things just for fun and not to dwell on what is going on.. sure it sucks... but be strong.. you can do it !

gabrielle,<BR> HI my friend. Sorry I've been among the missing lately. I've had some down times (See my post Signed the papers....) and have mostly been to down to post.<BR> Anyway, the way your H is acting is VERY common. It's just part of withdrawel and will pass. Lori's H told her he HATED her, a week later he came home. <P> Sometimes I think they have to "test" OUR belief and conviction to have the strength themselves. Remember, he doesn't think too much of HIMSELF right now. <BR> I would have (and DID) think Marrige Builders was a lot of bull a year ago. <P> Introduce it to him slowly. Us guys are pretty stupid about these things. <P> He's made a commitment to you. FOR WHAT EVER REASON. Don't have a preferance for the REASON why!! Lori's H ALSO told her that he came back because of COMMITMENT only. NOT that he loved and missed her. SLOWLY the fog lifted and look at them today!!<P> DO NOT let the GARBAGE that comes out of his "In a trance" mouth bother you. I KNOW IT'S HARD!! But, YOU CAN DO THIS!!<P> IT WILL GET EASIER!! <BR> He may well come home and tell you that it's over and he wants out. DON'T cave in!! Be SURE that it can work out because it CAN!! Your H loves you. The love is just buried under layers and layers of fog and pain. Peal the layers away slowly and you will find the man you married.<BR> <BR> I Love you and am here for you.<BR> GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK<BR><P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>

Childless<P>Before he went out last night, I asked him what needs could I meet for him and he told me none.<P>I have looked up the site you recommended and I will read all the material.<P>Thank you<P>Gabrielle<P>NSR<BR>Thanks for all the information, I will check it out.<P>Gabrielle<P><BR>SDS<P>He didn't come home last night and it is now 11am here and he still isin't home. His car is still here and his uniform for work so he didn't go to work either.<P>What do I do now?<P>Gabrielle<P>Nikki 123<P>I live in Ireland so retrouville is not an option for me. I hear what you are saying and I will try not to LB when he does arrive home. He finished the affair 16 months ago but I didn't find out unitl 14 months ago.<P>Gabrielle<P><BR>PLEASE HELP<P>I am so sorry for your pain, I will read your posts this evening regarding signing the papers. Well, he didn't come home last night so I guess this is it. Judging by the way he spoke when he told me he wasn't in love with me etc, he wasn't in a fog Frank he really means it I just know it.<P>He never compliments me or shows any interest other than friendly. I think I would prefer if he told me he hated me with passion in his voice instead of telling me he wasn't in love with me or could never see himself feeling that way about me again with no feeling at all.<P>I will not LB when he comes home. I am going to be strong with this<P>Please pray for me.<P>Love you my friend<P>Gabrielle

Hi, Sweetie - you have mail.<P>You're not hearing anything that most of us haven't heard. Don't worry about it.<P>Read about Plan A. Start w/ Jim's Notable Posts. You can do this.<P>There is hope. It begins with you....you hold the key and the power. Use it.<P>Let us know when you hear from him. And don't panic if it's not good news. His words and actions CANNOT influence yours right now.<P>Love and prayers,<P>Lori

Gabriellec,<P>If you can get any of the books out there, it really helps to read everything.<P>I know I did. My h really was no longer in-love with me, it wasn't just the fog. But we are doing great now, seven months after I started plan A.<P>It can be very hard to do, but the idea is simple. It means you are going to do everything you can think of to make him happy and not worry if it is all one-sided.<P>It sounds like it's a waste of time asking him what his needs are, or telling him about MB right now. First make up your mind you want to really try this, it may be awhile before you get any love back!<P>I don't know your man, but I'll tell you where I started. Even though we have small children, I started looking good when he came home: clothes, make-up. And I started treating him like the king of the house, controlling the kids better, cooking what he liked, trying to be a friend and really listen to him.<P>Only later I found out what he would rank as his "needs", but a good looking woman and a neat house were right up there behind sex.<P>I really wasn't making him feel loved or special. And it took spending a lot of time together, trying not to talk about things that were painful. It sounded fake to me to "have fun" instead of talking about the pain in our lives, but it really worked!<P>Did he come home, dear? I hope this helped a little bit. It takes time, but I think if we could fall in love again, anyone could. But you have to act like your dating, put your needs aside (only temporarily, believe me).

Just checking in on you! I'm with Schizzo (I usually find I am!!!)<P>You ok, Sweetie?<P>Lori

Lostva and Schizzo<P>Well he said he came back home at 1.45pm. He left a message on the phone this morning at 9am to say he had stayed in his friends house cos they brought a few beer home with them. he later rang me at work but I didn't get the message.<P>I didn't row with him which is what he was expecting but I told him it was not on his staying out all night and he said he didn't mean for it to happen.<P>He said he had a good talk with his friend and he said the friend was more on my side than his but remommended he make a decision of what he wants to do very soon.<P>He didn't say he was leaving well not so far anyway.<P>will keep you posted<P>love and hugs <P>Gabrielle