Don't let anyone ever say that it gets better. The hatred the betrayer feels just gets worse and worse. And it makes it far worse if the betrayed still loves the betrayer. The betrayer wants the betrayed to hate him, so he can be justified, and anything less, even civillity, just makes him madder. <P>Plan A, Plan B - it doesn't matter. The betrayer has to hate the betrayed - and it doesn't fade with time. It only gets worse and worse and worse. Now according to him, I am responsible for having less money to spend on the kids, because I won't just accept everything he proposes, including financially, without question. According to him, I am controlling because I do not want to be excluded from the kids medical evaluations. According to him I don't trust him because I want to talk to the doctors and participate in providing background information too. For a while he stopped paying me child support to hurry up my signing of the separation agreeement, but his lawyer hadn't drafted it yet. Over a year elapsed since he filed, and he hadn't completed the legally required financial documents, but I was the one who supposedly was delaying the divorce. I am supposedly self-centered because by saying that he should have said something if he was unhappy with anything in our marriage (and he has admitted that he did his best to hide his feelings) I am somehow putting all the blame for whatever problems we had on him (according to some supposed therapist who says she met him online (or is it the OW in disguise?). <P>And I am fairly sure that the OW is lurking here, - but I don't give a d***. A message to the OW: no matter how much you want me not to, I still love my H. I wish I didn't. I wish I could just turn off my love after a quarter of a century, but it doesn't work that way.<p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited May 25, 2000).]

geez, nellie, your H has more fog on his brain than san fransisco in july. im so sorry this is all still going on for you.<BR>((((((NELLIE)))))))<BR>julie<P>------------------<BR><A HREF="http://www.go.to/wcu" TARGET=_blank>loveWASblind</A>

Thanks, Julie. Sometimes I wish I had never read that the betrayer "comes out of the fog" and at least begins to act more civilly, even if they don't come back - because it is not true in his case. He just gets worse and worse - not so much in person, but by email.

i can relate, on some level, nellie, my H is a psychopath, and i read somewhere that they grow out of it as they grow older...well, H is 51, and there are very little signs of him growing out of it...he just hasn't been in jail, like the typical psychopath. too bad, maybe....

Nellie,<P>You said it....that is exactly what my stbx is doing....wants me to hate him. He told me that early on...said that it would make him feel better because of what he did. He actually begged me to hate him. That is so sad. I think he is mad because we share the same air....and he is so selfish.....he would love to take that from me too.

Julie,<P>I don't know that depression improves with age - perhaps it is just the opposite. For quite a while before my H left, I had become very worried about his memory loss, which I have been told is characteristic of depression. It is not just that he rewrote the history of our marriage, though he did that too, but he has forgotten so much, including things it would be to his benefit to remember. <P>Nancy,<P>Sometimes I wish I could hate him. It would certainly be a lot less painful. Shortly after he left, though, I was somewhere where I overheard a woman complaining about her STBX. I have never seen someone so overcome with rage, and I remember thinking that I would hate to feel like that.<BR>

I'm feeling love and hatred at the same time towards my wife (she will be filing for separation very soon and move into OMs house). I love her and want her back, but at the same time I'm furious at her for what she's doing to me. Based on the Harley's principles I try to avoid showing it to her and love bust. I try to seem upbeat and "don't care", but somehow I feel that that will only make her feel better about what she's doing and feel less remorse.<P>It has gotten to the point where my family has started questioning my sanity since I'm to nice towards my wife. I tell them I have full control, but I'm not sure they're buying it.<P>scandinavian

scandinavian,<P>I don't feel hatred toward my H - certainly anger, but that is not the same thing at all.<P>But I have come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter how the betrayed reacts, or how they feel about the betrayer. Perhaps my H would be less angry if I agreed to whatever financial proposals he came up with, if I were willing to perjure myself in court and say that our marriage was irretrievably broken, if I were willing to let him entirely determine how much involvement I was allowed to have in medical and educational decisions for the kids. Anything less than complete acquiescence is not good enough for him, apparently. I once tried to talk to him about the POJA, and he said that if we had adhered to that, we never would have done anything. The POJA is great in theory, but I think was is necessary to maintain a marriage is more likely the POCA - Complete Agreement to whatever your spouse proposes, without hesitation. <P>

Nellie,<BR>I don't even think if we agreed to everything.....they still wouldn't find a reason to hate us.<P>I think that if we were deaf, mute, and blind...they still would have found a way to be angry at the way we grunted....or couldn't hear him or didn't see the way they looked at us.<P>They will blame and be angry forever, or at least until their fantasy becomes true reality and they see that the grass is NOT greener on the other side.<P>Like I say......if they would have spent time watering their own lawn.....the grass wouldn't have looked better over there.<P>Nancy

You don't really think they hate you, do you? Love and hate are two parts of the same coin. You can't do one passionately without the potential for the other. It's when they just leave you alone that you know they have really let go.<P>I think as long as their actions still bother you, you still care. As long as they still care to bother you, they care too.<P>Kinda of a backward way of pointing out the good side, eh?