Well, went to the marraige counselor and he basically said that my H is unwilling to discuss OP. That he will not deny or confirm any affair, but that they have a great working relationship.<P>Counselor thinks H is just wanting to sit ont he fence....also that I help him do that too much. I agree...<P>I cannot do this anymore. It is not good for me or the kids.<P>I met with him at lunch....told him I cannot see him or speak with him while he is in any kind of relationship with her.<P>He was already coming over here tonight to make dinner with the kids for my BD and I am going away for a few days by myself.<P>So, while he is here I want him to come up with a visitation plan. I am moving out of this house in August and he needs to deal with that.<P>I think we will make a separation plan and get it notorized instead of going through a lawyer. <P>I am going to write a letter reiterating all of the above.<P>He just won't talk about anything. He wont' say what he wants, or needs or anything. He just wants to go on like this...working with OP and living the fantasy of being this noble missionary with her (the one who leaves her own kids with the H she complained about all these years), and having me take care of the kids, and letting him come in and out of the house being involved with them when it works for him.<P>It's not good for them nor me. I realize he will be pushed into the OP. MY H will take the easy route. He will just let himself keep believing her. and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it.<P>You know, he can't come up with a need (perhaps other than groveling). All he can say is I bug him. I say, he can only have one person at a time that doesn't bug him. For 13 years it was me...then he bought into what she thought of him and she doesn't bug him and I do. <P>I really hope it will be worth it for all the pain and suffering these actions have caused me and his children.<P>I did LB I am afraid. The counselor said I needed to tap into alittle anger because I am always defending him and making it easy for him to do what he is doing.<P>Unfortunately I said a few mean things, mostly about his hurting his children. Naturally, he didn't like it.....but at this point.....I have to save myself....I am truly going down, and my kids really need me to be strong.<P>I will write a nice letter and leave any LB out.......I am so sad!!!! I still cannot believe that the man I trusted and loved all of these years could do this......walk out on his 3 children. <P>YOu know he had the nerve to say "gee, you should be really excited about your trip>" He won't tell me about his relationship with OP...or why she moved out too.......or what we can do to work on our marraige, or what he percieves went wrong...though.

Sorry about your marriage but you need to understand that divorce is between a H and a W and not between a H and his kids.<P>He isn't abandoning his kids, he's abandoning you. And if you deny him visitation, you can be prosecuted. This is true in all 50 states. <P>Too bad you couldn't work thing out.

Hi tootrusting.<P>((((((((((((((((tootrusting)))))))))))))) Am I alowed to hug as I am legally seperated? <P><BR>I'm with you on this. Jim made a good point to one of my posts and that was it's not over till its over. I've given up too but I am taking it as a huge sign to start plan B. I doubt it will help in my situation but may work for you.<P>At least you are in counseling, mine won't go at all. No chance of reconciliation, not talking, that's it. <B>Never, never, never underestimate the power of addiction</B><P>I was important for me to realize that I did everything I could to save the marriage. I have resolved that in my head. I can look in the mirror and say that there is nothing left for me to do. I feel like I have a chance to start my life over again and use this experience to grow to be a much better person. God put this situation in front of me and it made me stronger.<P>Lets work though it on this board, there are a lot of great people here.

We all know how hard you've been working at this. Plan B sounds like the right option. My wife and I are separated and have an "agreement" over the terms. While we have signed it, we dispensed with notarizing it as it's just between the two of us right now. "Rebuilding: When Your Relationship Ends" is the book we used to model ours (it's in the appendix).<P>Separation is, in itself, not the end. Instead is really a time-out. Like half-time at a football game. You get to go to your locker room, take a break, refresh yourself, re-evaluate your strategy, and prepare for the next half.<P>Part of my healing has been coming to accept that there are certain things I can't do a damn thing about. I had no choice over separation but I am making the best of it. I am still Plan A'ing her when I get the chance. It seems to be working and we're having lunch together this week (first time alone together socially in nearly 5 months). <P>I am terribly sorry for the pain you continue to have to endure. Share your pain, stay stong, pray often, pray hard!<P>

You're right and I am not sure how it came across that I am not allowing him visitation.<P>He will get all the visitation he wants. My h was a very devoted dad. In this particular addiction....the kids went along with the wife. What I mean is he saw the kids and I as a burdon....This is not lost on my children, believe me. <P>He denies that he had any part of their life, just as he denies there were any good parts of our marraige. My children are young. IT is the children's counselor who is helping me deal with their drop in grades, enthusiasm, depression and confusion. Right before my H went on this trip with OP he was doing homework everynight, reading to them taking them to activities, he was planning on putting a pool in....(had the contracor here) he was planning trips for this summer. They saw their dad happy, hugging me, sending me flowers, he called us a lot...they waited for the garage door to come open and ran out.<P>THis man is not even remotely the same. He just doesn't get the kids at all. He will absolutely NOT be denied liberal visitation. But he will have to take all three to his house and not take one when it is convienient for him.. The counselor says that kids do best with consistency. If he comes here and the kids are out playing he says "see...they don't want to see me, they want to play"....AT least if the kids know the weekend they will spend with him they will be able to relax when they are here and just be kids again.<P>Guilty 1....all four of us are tired of walking on eggshells.<P>

Tootrusting,<P>I am so sorry...I was hoping and praying for you and your husband.<P>I do understand the abandonment part...my H left "all" of us to get away from me. We were a family...a unit.<P>I feel that if he wasn't abandoning the children...than why doesn't he stay a constant in their lives? Doctors appointments....dentists....after school activities....programs.....<P>His only attempts with the children are usually an hour or two a week and every other weekend. Throw in an occasional 3 minute phone call at 10:00 pm and there you have it. His every other weekend has mostly been 24 hours total. He calls me to quiet them when they are crying, he rents 3 or 4 videos...pops them in and gets on the phone. On his week day visitation....on nice days he takes them to the park....sits on a bench and either reads the newspaper (sports) or talks on the cell phone. No dinner...no conversation....no hugs or kisses....no I love yous'.<P>They would probably have more fun with a "true" stranger

Hi TT,<BR> {{{{{{Too Trusting}}}}}}}} You need a big hug,you hard worker! I guess your counselor sees the same things I do about H. I am glad you are getting some validation regarding your feeling of needing to step out of the picture for awhile. You need a break honey,and so do those precious kids.<P>H hasn't been able to wake up and smell the coffee for over 3 months now. More of the same is not likely to jar him out of it either.He's too comfortable. He needs a bucket of ice water dumped on his head! LOL<BR>Smile,your a very strong woman!<P>Hey, Happy Birthday, to you and your son! Do enjoy your time away as a gift to yourself for all the effort you've put forth in trying to save this marriage before doing Plan B.I still have big hopes for you and your H! You will feel better getting a break. Hang tough! Write soon!<p>[This message has been edited by mthrrhbard (edited May 30, 2000).]

Thanks so much for your replies. I'm OK. The BD party that H and the kids did for me tonight was great..My H tried to lure me back into IT, but i wouldn't budge. <P>I've had my counselor, the kids counselor, and the marraige counselor all tell me I overfunction for him...they told me that it would have been me doing this in a year or two when my youngest was in school. <P>It seems that I didn't expect him to make me happy......inthe marraige...but I expected myself to make him happy....<P><BR>The past year has been tough and I have slacked off on the overfunctioning...he went elsewhere .<P>I am always trying to defend him, protect him.......It is like being married to a drug addict or ETOHich. <P>I am doing this for me. I was very nice tonight. HE followed me upstairs and asked "is this It"...I told him it was up to him.....that if he was willing to discuss how to fix the marraige I was too... Believe me...I have claimed my part in the skewed dance that we have been doing.<P><BR>I told him NOT to ask for me...not to call me....unless he wants to discuss what we can do to work on the marraige.<P>He got teary....I know it will be hard. He is feeling so good about himself at work...Everyone admires him...OP really takes charge in the office and deals with all the conflicts...she works on his ego, telling him how she can help him do wonderful things for humanity !!!! <P>I would normally think she was noble, but this is the woman who left her own h and children half-time on MOthers day..so no she is not MOther Theresa.<P>So now, my H has had two counselors tell him he is confused and in a fog because he has let another relationship interfere with this one........and yet he still doesn't believe it..or he wants the fantasy to continue..so now I am goint to be out of the equation. they won't have me to kick around anymore!!!!!

Stick to your guns TT. I don't know what it is but when I read your posts I always feel so much hope for you and your h. I really think that what he is going thru is a mid life crisis and he will come out of it one day. His eyes are gonna open up wide and he is going to see you for the beautiful caring woman you are. Give it a few more months and I bet we will all be reading about you on the Recovery board. I wish I felt this optimistic about my relationship.....