They say people who are addicted are actually in love with the OP. But, it is not usually a healthy love and it usually does not last. <P>I was talking to a good friend of my h tonight and he was saying that perhaps my h is truly in love with the Ow and that it is real. He must have been talking to my h and my h told him that his affair has been going on for to long for it to be just an addiction. <P>I told him I disagree because for the first 2 years of the affair, he had to be very clever and sneak around just to find time together. Since the affair has been out in the open now since Janurary and he is currently living with her since February of 2000, I consider it only 4 months of day to day living with OW. <P>Maybe I am holding out on false hope. According to my h friend, my h is very happy and he sees nothing wrong with living with OW and her 3 kids. Even when its only 3 miles from our house. <P>The thing that gets me is my h can not and does not want to know what it was that was missing in his marriage to me. He just says that hes no longer in love with me. This after 19 years and 2 kids together. This from a man that showed me nothing but love all those years even when affair was going on. My h has always been one to block out bad things in his life. He deals with it by actually not dealing with it...<P>I guess my ? tonight would be Has his relationship with OW reached a point where it has gone from addiction to true love? I know Dr H seems to think relationships like these are bound to fail based on what it was built on but I tell you, I don't see signs of this one crumbling yet. In fact, the more I plan A h the meaner he gets toward me...<P>Advise, Opinions welcome..Thanks

Missy,<P>Addiction is addiction is addiction...<P>Craving....<BR>Compulsion...<BR>Controling...or at least trying to<BR>Consequences...or damn the consequences<P>Do not = Love<P>Your H more than likely does not feel romantic love for you right now...RL is purely conditional...It is based on meeting needs...RL can be rekindled, but it takes time<P>4 months seperation...<P>Have you done a thorough Plan-A...Meaning zero lovebusters and trying to meet what emotional needs you can? If you have then Plan-B may be in order.<P>Statisticly speaking affairs start to die out within 6 months of seeing the light of day. Try to hang on a bit longer.<P>If you can concider talking to one of the Harley's. They really know their stuff when it comes to this.<P>IMHO Addiction does not = long lasting love.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Well, I think that I read somewhere that an affair lasts an average of 6 months to 1 year after it becomes public... so your theroy maybe right and he needs a little more time before he sees that the affair is not the way to go. You say that you are following up on Plan A... what exactly are you doing? It seems to me that he may be mean to you for one of two reasons... either he perceives the things that you are doing as holding on to him and to hope and it is making him mad or it working and his anger is an expression really of anger at himself. Examine what you are doing.. make sure that you are not doing anything or saying anything that could be perceived as holding on to him.. remember he has to feel free of control from you.<P>This affair may or may not end.. I do not know enough about the facts of your case to render an opinion. The odds are in your favor that it will end. As to why he seems happy with her (and how galling to you that must be).. he may or may not be happier with her... remember for the guilty party, it is all about justification and passion and ideas in the beginning. Think back to the early days of your marriage, you were probably very happy.. but that intense feeling does not last long.. and he has the burden of guilt (towards you and his kids), he has financial concerns, he has to deal with his kids and her kids and I am sure that is not easy to deal with.. and, evan if he thinks he loves this OW, he has to get used to living with her... he was used to living with you... getting used to living with someone else can add stresses... Right now he is saying he is happy and he believes it... but give him time. Evan if he marries her that does not mean it will last.. statistically 2nd marriages, especially those with blended families have a hingher divorce rate. I think that someone on one of these sites put it best when she said she was moving on but leaving a part of her mind open to the idea of reconciliation if and when it ever happened.. but in the meantime she was going to move ahead with her life the way she wanted it to go and enjoy herself. You will never be able to answer the question of whether this is or is not true love for your H and the OW... I know that it must feel like the ultimate rejection of you and the years that you have spent together to have him seem happy with OW.. I know you are hurting. But at some point you have to have faith in the old adage.. what comes around goes around...Your H will eventually get his comeupence.... maybe that will mean he will want to reconcile.. maybe it won't hapen in a way that you will ever be aware of.. but it will happen. My H's father and mother divorced years ago (Both had affairs and fought bitterly for years). My H was the youngest of 3 children, 12 at the time of the divorce. Both his parents are now remarried. My H had an affair five years ago upon the birth of our first child. We separated for 6 months and reconciled. Shortly after we reconciled, my H decided to go visit his father (H hates his father as his father pretty much abandoned them after the divorce and did not provide any financial support to them) and he confronted his father about the past... I am sure that was my father in laws moment of facing the truth.. hearing and seeing the hate, anger, despair and blame that his youngest son felt for him. My H has again left me (now with 2 kids).. as he apparently never stopped his affair (interesting my H and both his siblings have had an affair and exited their marriages at about the same age in their lives.... their parents divorce scarred them deeply). The other night my H informed me that he hated being married to me and our marriage was one lie after another (due to the affair) and that now that we have separated he likes himself again.. you can imagine how that made me feel!<P>So I do understand your pain and I think that we all have to remind ourselves that this is happening for a reason.. we can either let ourselves be crippled by it or we can learn from the experience and become stronger! I think that because I survived our first spearation that I became stronger.. I know that I can survive this and I know that you can too.. so be strong for yourself and for your kids... keep your dignity and class... Remember you are a great person and hold up your head.. forget about what he and the OW are doing.. (hard, but try) Unless your H is telling you details of his life you will only be guessing so try not to worry about him focus on you!!!

Missy,<BR> I wonder the same thing.Do we just hold out hope that their relationship is doomed to fail,even if we don't want them back?Just so we can say"I told you so"?<BR> My stbx has been living with BoyToy for over a year now.I haven't heard boo from her except for a brief letter a while ago.She mentioned his address as hers,too,so as far as I know they're still together.Stay tuned for an update on divorce.<BR> Three miles from your H's and OW's house would be too close for me.At least my lovebirds are living in another town.<BR> I think in your case,4 months hasn't been long enough.Maybe her three kids will start to get on his nerves.They're not his kids after all.I think in my case,a lot of their relationship is based on sex and passion.Maybe it'll fall apart when that wears thin.<BR> It's tough when you don't get any closure.Unlike a lot of marriages I read about here,we didn't fight,we got along pretty good,we did everything together.But I got the old,"Sorry,I just fell in love with somebody else." Other than that,all she had was flimsy excuses,and petty faults.<BR> I think our spouses are true conflict-avoiders,huh?Not dealing with the issues,or even really wanting to talk about it.Just running away.<BR> Maybe you have plan A'd enough.Perhaps you should go into plan B to save your sanity.I don't know about you,but I couldn't take the verbal abuse."I'm trying to forget the past,and think of the future."(with BoyToy).How do you think that makes me feel after taking care of her for 22 years?I gave her the best years of my life.Just like you did to your H.I hope Bill is right,and these invalid relationships crumble like a 100 year-old building in an L.A. earthquake!<BR> --Murph

Missy9,<BR>In order for it to be true love, God has to be a part of it. What your H has is LUST which feels and smells like the FEELING part of LOVE. He is addicted to the feeling he is currently feeling. LOVE entails putting another first regardless of what you receive in return. TRUE LOVE only has the other person's best interest in mind at ALL times.<P>Read 1 Corinthians 13 to understand what true love is.<P>MONDO HUG TO YA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>------------------<BR><B><I>God Bless,<BR>Rob</I></B><BR> regilmor@swbell.net <p>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited May 31, 2000).]

I know this is a good question...<BR>...and excellent responses!<P>...but in time...<BR>...is it a significant question?<P>Working on you becoming a better person...<BR>in Plan A or Plan B....<BR>...is what is going to save your...<BR>sanity,<BR>happiness,<BR>desire for life,<BR>...maybe your soul too!<P> <P>Jim

Hey missy, just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you. I'm beginning plan B. Had to get through a BD celebration and D's graduation. But I told my H......he can't have her for a friend and me for a friend.<P>So, now with me out of the picture he won't have me to blame anymore.<P>I am solely doing this for me and the kids. We are all tired of walking on eggshells. Remember, my H just refuses to SAY anything. Now two counselors have told him his "friendship" is keeping him in the clouds. I have been TOO nice to him I think....I have drawn a line in the sand for me.......<P>I openned a bank account. I am looking for a smalleer house in the same school district.<P>He walked out, he doesn't get to make all the rules. Let him deal with this big house and all of the expenses.<P>There is going to be a mom's house and a dad's house. <P>I told the kids that I am not able to talk to him right now. That just like when one of theri friends hurts their feelings and they need to not talk to them for awhile, the same is true for me.<P>(kid's counselor helped me with this. She said I keep letting him off the hook too. He will not say anything to the kids...they ask him...he says nothing.<P>He may never grow up emotionally.......I can;t change that. He may let OP devour him. (btw....he has lost so much respect and people look at her with disgust at work!!!)<P>But it will be him that will be missing out. He seems to feel that he has more important work to do(with OP) ! so let him.....As I told him in the beginning...."In the end, it will not be the places you have been and the people you have met, but how you have loved...that will matter!!!!!"<P>I'm sure this is not love in my H's case, and in fact he will tell counselor that...and he will say he doesn't want to divorse...he justs wants it the way it is....and I don't!!!!!<P>"today is the first day of the rest of my life"

Thanks to all of you for your responses. I just don't know what to do at this point. <P>A few weeks ago h went on and on about how we need to try to get along better for the kids sake. I have gone out of my way to be very nice and I sware he just does not like it. I really feel that him and OW had a fight over an e mail I sent to him last week when I signed it MAGIC(May all gods intentions cometrue) He and she had no idea what it meant but he called me up that night and was in a really bad mood and specifically asked what MAGIC meant. I just told him it was an acronym that had meaning to me. I asked him if that was why he was so mad and he just said I'm in a bad mood and I am going to bed. <P>Since then I have barely spoken to him. Tonight My kids had a game and Of course I saw him there. He barely said hello. So, at one point I got up from my seat and went over to him and asked to borrow some $ to get the kids some thing to drink. He gave me the money and just said sure. I said Thank you in a very nice voice. After the game, he just said to me I'll be by in the morning to get the kids for school. That was it. <P>He will never ever talk to me about anything other than the kids. Ever since that E mail I sent. <P>I am trying to Plan A him but when you barely have contact, it is very hard. Someone said that Plan A is not meant to let the person think you want them back. I don;t get that one. I thought that Plan A is being as nice as you possibly can be so they feel like home is a safe place to be. I have never said to my h that I want him back. I have told him that I still love him and I think he realizes how much I do by how hurt I am. <P>Anyway, I think I also need to go to Plan B. BUT and a Big BUT, that is virtually impossible as my kids play baseball all summerlong almost 4 nights a week and WE both love the games so much. There is no way in hell that either one of us would miss the games. This will continue until Late September. So, perhaps I will continue Plan A until then and start Plan B when School starts. <P>All of this is so tough because We are currently going thru the lawyers to get a seperation agreement in writing. I now have to sell my house because I can not afford it on the child support I will be getting. My attorney told me so. <P>This also adds to my anger as we just bought the house less than 2 years ago and put all of our money into it. We have also put about $20,000.00 of work and new furniture in many rooms. All of this while he knew he was having this affair. When I think of all the financial trouble I am going to be in and how my lifestyle is going to change drastically, it hard to be sweet as pie to this man. He claims he never intended to do this to me it just happened. I guess I can believe that because I really dont think he would have gone thur all the trouble to buy the house in the first place. <P>Oh I'm so mixed up and not sure what to do. I know I love him but I tell ya everyday away from him is getting easier and easier in some ways. Sometimes I ask myself why would I want a man who can do the things he has done? Someone so selfish. I am having trouble coming up with the answer to that one.......

Missy,<BR> I don't understand why they make major decisions like buying a house if divorce is possibly on their mind.<BR>It's funny that you mentioned the $20,000 fiqure on your house.My stbx let me take out a loan for that amount while her affair was in the emotional stage.We were going to remodel the house.I was going to build her a new kitchen.We were drawing up blueprints,going to home centers,bringing home samples,and she"seemed"real excited about it.Everything seemed fine to me.<BR> About three weeks later,she divulged her affair,said she loved him,was moving out,wanted a divorce,and said we could be real good friends someday.<BR> I'm left sitting alone in our house after she moved out a few days later,with blueprints for a new kitchen,and $20,000 in the bank.What do you think of that?<BR> I guess I'm just as confused as you why they would go to all the trouble to make things look normal,when they're thinking of leaving you. <BR> --Murph

Hi Missy -<P>NSR has a very good point in his post!!<P>It is not something for you to be focused on for any length of time.<P>If you just want to get input for some understanding - then OK, but don't get it in your head that you are standing in the way of "true love" or some such hogwash!!!!!<P>Hey Murph - Now c'mon, man.....you know about the "real" world that you live in and the "other" world she's in, right? (wink-wink!!!!) lol!!!!<P>Goes to prove it, if you ask me!!!!<P>A lot of confused grandiose plans swishing around in their heads!!!! Yet, somehow they can keep it all separate!!<P>It's amazing, considering I can't even remember when garbage night is half the time!!!! LOL!!!!<P>BIG HUGS to all,<P>Sheba<BR>

Sheba,<BR> Yeah,yeah,I know you're right!It's just hard for a normal,rational person to comprehend these actions.<BR> Here I am,in the real world,paying bills,working on the house,taking care of things,while she's living in a world of bubblebaths and champagne.<BR> Thanks for setting me straight!<BR> --Murph

Hey Murph -<P>Are you saying that I am irrational cuz I comprehend their thinking?<P>LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!<P>I am in worse shape than I thought!! <P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

Sheba,<BR> No,no,I'm not saying you're irrational.Personally,I think you should have your own talk show(just like Jerry Springer,but no metal chairs).<BR> <BR> Stay tuned for,"The Sheba Show".<P> --Murph