Is the right method for posting a question to Dr. Harley?<P>I'll try to keep the length of this manageable. Our troubles are a result of my mistreatment (verbally/mentally) of my wife particularly the last four or five years. She has always stuffed her feelings away and avoided conflict. Criticism, ridicule, ranting over meaningless things fueled by a daily dose of alcoholcan describe my occasional but consistent behaviour. I've always proclaimed my love for my wife, but I was blind to my actions spurred by frustrations of my own marital unhappiness. I began to turn to my children for the affection that was lacking in our relationship since life with kids settled in and got to be more tough than a lobour of love. I love my wife dearly and have always been a dedicated family man and father. Seven months ago my wife expressed her unhappiness and soon revealed to me one "night of sin" with a co-worker. We clung to eachother and I recognized that my behaviour was the prime cause of this unraveling of events. We have stayed together and she continued to work at the same place, maintaining there was nothing there and they work together only. I kenew before I read "Surviving..." that the affair was only a by-product of the real problem. "how could she do this?" soon became "How could this happen to us?". I have seen my mistakes of the past few years and change came naturally. She has not been exposed to the disrespect of the past. I would be suspicious on occasion, but it was understood. Things seemed to be going well. There have even been times where she said "I love you" and "I'm finally feeling like I can talk to you again". About a month ago I incorrectly perceived her actions and got drunk ( my daily cocktails has always hurt her inside) and proceeded to lecture her, hands folded, at the top of my lungs. About a week later she expressed her desire for a separation. A week after that, after following some advice to "be honest" she restated that she doesn't have the feeling of love (something we've discussed and that I understand) and she wants a separation, plus she wants to resume seeing and talking with the co-worker. I must say that without your material I would not have been prepared or able to understand how this could happen.<BR>She is still at home and has resumed seeing him at lunch. She has also seen him at night on the last two weekends after her p/t catering job. She has even called me to tell me she is going out and not to worry (talk about pain!). When she came home early A.M. I have been more than understanding, and have tried to show her that I am the only one who understands what she is going through. She has recently revealed some of this to family members and close neighbor, they do not tell her what she wants to hear. I've told her that when they talk to me I practically find myself defending her despite the excrutiating pain I'm going through. We get along well at home. We even talk about the other person and she says she needs him in her life right now. (he provided attention,conversation, tenderness at a difficult time when she had not even told me of her unhappiness.) You could also say that he preyed upon her at a time when she was vulnerable. Water under the bridge now.<P>I have told her that I will do my best to support her through this and I will not be judgemental of her. I will not harass the other man and I will always be there for her. She has been damaged inside by me and I've only recently realized that she's been unhappy for a few years now. Sometimes she would listen to my ranting and say "I hate this man and I am stuck here. This is the rest of my life?"<P>She cannot trust me yet and believe that I have truly seen my errors in life and have changed forever. She has no desire to take a step toward reconciliation or counseling, but my steadiness and consistent, clear response to events must have her thinking. Besides, since my last "lecture" I have stopped consuming alcohol (thank God) and am thinking quite clearly. (That last episode, in my opinion tore down a fragile trust she had put in me to protect and care for her). In fact she is rather amazed at the way I am handling this whole new turn of events. I feel she is withdrawing from me now and is "courting" the other in preparation for the next step in the affair. It is like trying to stop a slow moving freight train, I know I cannot do it, it has to run it's course. Of course it is possible she just needs this person as a crutch right now, but I don't put much stock in that prospect. What confuses me is that we still have conversations about what we may do this summer with the kids. And how we are going to get a new car at the end of the summer. She wants to save her money so we can afford the payments. She was telling me yesterday someone asked her why she wanted a SUV. She told me about how it would be good when we go camping, etc... One minute we're going over her complete lack of desire to stay together, and 24 hours later we have conversations involving our future activities as a family. I've rambled enough, you probably understand my quandry.<P>Am I doing the right thing? I don't see any recourse to supporting her and showing her that I am safe even under these extreme circumstances. Thank goodness I've quit the alcohol and begun praying to the Lord for strength and guidance, or at the very least she would not be under the same roof with me and our children. Sometimes the pain is unbearable and work is not happening, as indicated by my spending all this time at this site.<P>We still get along and go about our business. We talk about the same things we used to. We've done yardwork, shopping, taken walks...It's bizarre at times.<P>Any advice at all would be appreciated.<P>I'm going to my second counseling session recommended from your office but she is reluctant to come. I think she was leaning toward going on Sunday/Monday but after work on Tuesday when I asked if she wanted to go she said "No, not this time".<p>[This message has been edited by Changed Man (edited May 31, 2000).]

Changed Man:<P>Dr. Harley no longer answers questions directly, with the exception of his radio show <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html" TARGET=_blank>(888-332-5169, 2-3 PM central time)</A>.<P>If you're working on a "clear" plan A, and you're seeing a marriage counselor who was recommended by the MarriageBuilder's office, there's not a lot more that you can do. Consistancy is the hallmark of a good Plan A, and your previous "lecture" tirade has cost you (and you've realized that, and taken corrective action---which is another hallmark of a good Plan A: apologize after screwing up and learn from it).<P>You should do your best to establish a good track record with these new behaviors: 6-12 months is a good timeframe. Eventually, the pain of seeing your wife continue an affair will erode your ability to control lovebusters---before this happens, you will want to move to "Plan B". However, it's very important to lay the groundwork for reconciliation before you go to the separation---your wife needs to know that you are willing to change, and that you've demonstrated an ability to do so.

One additional point: if she would have gone to counseling on Sunday or Monday, and you made an appointment for Tuesday because it was more "convenient" for you, you've earned yourself a "dope-slap"! Make your marriage a priority!!!

Thank you for your reply. On the subject of counseling, my wife has stated she is not ready to take that step. The appointment was made a week in advance and Sunday and Monday were not available (closed). Hopefully she will come around in time if she sees (and she has) the changes in me. She will need to trust what she sees before making a move, and I feel she knows that reconciliation and affairs do not mix. The thought of giving up this relationship of conversation and affection (at this point) is too much for her to consider right now. I have told her that if she wants to go, it doesn't mean that she has to give up or change anything just for the sake of going to counsel. It may just be an opportunity for to tell her story to someone else and see how it sounds/feels. Any measure of consideration gained over the weekend may be thwarted by the fact that she returns to work in the other's presence. The fact that she goes back to work and is together with him may be enough to swing her decision to a "no, not this time". There have only been two sessions. I will keep extending a gentle invitation and leave it in God's hands.<P>Thanks again for your reply.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K:<BR><B>One additional point: if she would have gone to counseling on Sunday or Monday, and you made an appointment for Tuesday because it was more "convenient" for you, you've earned yourself a "dope-slap"! Make your marriage a priority!!! </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Just need to say that I think it was a bit premature of you to suggest that I am placing convenience over the very reason why I make it through each day in life(my wife and family).<P>As far as priority, breathing is about the only thing taking priority over this situation in my life. Eating is done through necessity. (lost 12 lbs in November and another 10 since 05/15 down below 160lbs.)<P>Thanks for the reply anyway. I understand it was done with constructive intentions.<P>Changed Man

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Originally posted by K:<BR>One additional point: if she would have gone to counseling on Sunday or Monday, and you made an appointment for Tuesday because it was more "convenient" for you, you've earned yourself a "dope-slap"! Make your marriage a priority!!! <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think K misunderstood what you said about your wife saying that she was willing to go on Sun/Mon. From what I understood, your wife was willing on Sun/Mon to go to counseling whenever the appt might be but changed her mind by Tue, which is when the appt was.<P>I think K thought that she had only agreed to go if the appt was on Sun/Mon but you made the appt for Tue. not taking that into account.<P>Am I right?<P>

Changed Man:<P>I commend you for your efforts to change your behavior, but I'm afraid that you may have waited just a bit too long to get started.<P>I am of the opinion that once your W made the decision to again take up with the OM, the progress of her withdrawal from your relationship had already reach a point at which it probably could not be stopped.<P>Hang on, 'It's going to be a bumpy ride!'<BR>The fact that she still discusses events in the future indicates she is still fence sitting. The pull of the OM is powerful though and I think you are right in preparing yourself for a separation.<P>If you continue to change and maintain the changes you have made, continue to Plan A when you can and get some counseling from the Harleys, then I think you have a good chance of getting your wife back after the affair has run its course.<P>Keep up the good efforts.<P>Buffy<P>

I'm so sorry for what you've been going through. We have a similar story, but minus alcoholism and infidelity. That's why we were spared from separation after I have resolved to do away with my major LBs. Just be consistent now, no matter how long it takes, and hope that she will give you another chance. She's shown some encouraging signs no matter how small. If your efforts fail, at least you would have given it your best shot. And please take care of your health. You will need it how ever your problem is resolved in the end.<BR>

Thank you,<P>I realize that no matter the outcome I will be a better human being as a result of this experience. However I cannot imagine life without our family reunited in true happiness forever.

What K tells you about the lovebusters is correct....<BR>If you are tempted to LB, (and you will, especially if the affir is ongoing) you must either suppress it or go to Plan B. Plan A is a much better place ot try to work on your marriage, but if you LB, you will push her farther away. You will be giving her the excuse to leave the marriage. <BR>I know this sound unfair, but she must feel that things will be different. Otherwise she will lose any resolve to be married to you. <P>------------------<BR>Susan

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sue:<BR><B>What K tells you about the lovebusters is correct....<BR>If you are tempted to LB, (and you will, especially if the affir is ongoing) you must either suppress it or go to Plan B. Plan A is a much better place ot try to work on your marriage, but if you LB, you will push her farther away. You will be giving her the excuse to leave the marriage. <BR>I know this sound unfair, but she must feel that things will be different. Otherwise she will lose any resolve to be married to you. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You are right we both understand it could never be "the same". She will need to trust me to care and protect, and she will undoubtedly have new empowerment in the relationship if she even feels she wants to be in a relationship at all. Sometimes I think she may feel she has to "break away from it all". I know it is in God's hands, but it hurts so much. I'll need more faith and strength.<P>Thanks and God bless<P>