I'm not quite sure how to deal with it. <P>I have not posted my own thread in a while. I've been lurking mostly, because my H and I are doing relatively well. <P>A bit of a background, my H had an A from November '99 to January '00. Dday was 1/19. A ended upon discovery as did his drinking. He is now a recovering alcoholic.<P>Back to my question. He has been sober now for 20 weeks. The past three weekends he's been bugging me to drink Odouls. He actually did three weeks ago. This bothers me. It bothers me a lot! I don't think he's ready for it and I wonder why he's thinking about it so much.<P>Add to that, a phone number on my home phone bill that I do not recognize, that is unlisted, and was called on a night I was out. I haven't approached him about it.<P>We were coming home from his cousin's bday party on Saturday night. We were in the back seat of his brother's car, and I found myself staring at him.<P>Then, all of a sudden, this wave of calmness came over me. It was like I knew in my heart, mind, and soul, that this is just not going to work out. Meaning my marriage.<P>Here's my question....have any of you ever felt that? It was so eerie. I have not told my H about this either. He knows I'm uncomfortable with the whole ODouls thing as it is. I am still feeling this way today. It's been two days. I know he can sense something wrong with me, but how do you tell someone something like that?<P>I love him with all my heart. But it's almost like I'm back to dday with these feelings of paranoia (the phone number and his drinking).<P>We even "graduated" from our therapist a month ago, to where we only have to go once a month now. Our next appointment is on Thursday evening. Other than this odd happening on Saturday night, everything for all intense and purposes has been going great. We spend all our free time together, he calls me three times each day to check in, and he's home by 4 every day from work. I couldn't ask for anything more. So why am I still sceptical?<P>Ugh.... any advice would be welcome. Thanks for reading and I'm sorry it's so long. <P>Hugs to everyone!<BR>--purplemag<P><BR>

I can totally relate....we are 4 mos post dday and doing great but I panic at any little thing LOL<P>regarding the phone call....did you call the number? It most likely is innocent..if you saw several than I would worry. You could casually ask him. I find if I let this things fester,it gets worse. When I ask,he gives me the explanation,followed by proof and then I can let it go.<P>I would try to not let the Odouls thing bother you......when I was preg. I drank them alot because I LOVE the taste of an ice cold beer......still do <P>Take care.......remember to focus on his actions......sounds like he is doing good too

Purplemag, <BR>I'm not sure what your negative feeling is about O'Douls? It is alcohol free. And if you like beer, it isn't very good beer , personally I like Coors Cutter, also non-alcoholic, better.<P>As for that "feeling", I've had it both ways "THIS WILL ALL WORK OUT (stick with the marriage)" and "THIS WILL NEVER WORK OUT (run!)". Don't base your life on changeable feelings, do what is right.<P>I'm with Garden Girl, check out the number, talk to your husband, remember, no LBs.<P>You may feel you have lost a safety net with fewer therapy appointments. Discuss it with the counselor<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

Hi Purplemag,<P>I think this is the 1st time for me to reply to your Posts. As I was reading this one, your situation sounds identical to mine!<P>My H is also a recovering alcoholic. His affair lasted 7 weeks. He was drinking daily, hanging out in bars, met the barfly there (she drinks a lot too).<P>Affair ended upon his confession and his attempt at staying sober. Recovery has been over a year now and there have been ups & downs. One of the ultimatums was for us to go to therapy.<P>Our therapist specializes in addictions (especially drug & alcohol). She said that my H was NOT ready to drink non-alcoholic beer. He needs to stay sober. Although there is no alcohol in the O'Douls, still the "mental" thought of it being beer is involved.<P>He needed to stay away from beer completely in order for him to heal. She said that he needed to be sober for at least a year before he drank anything non-alcoholic.<P>During the beginning of his recovery, he also wanted O'Douls and I felt very uncomfortable with it. So, he didn't drink it. I think that it is a small price to pay versus saving your marriage.<P>After 1 year, we now occasionally buy non-alcoholic beer. He has proven that he doesn't need to have the alcohol content. We have this non-alcoholic Amber Lager (really tastes like the real thing!), and he will drink 1 bottle, and the rest of the 5 bottles will sit for days before he drinks it!<P>He has also proven to himself that he doesn't need the alcohol either. I am very proud of him.<P>I just want to say that your feelings are natural. Alcohol TRIGGERS the destruction of your marriage and is the ROOT of the problem. Your H first needs to combat this problem before he starts drinking non-alcoholic beer.<P>I think that after 1 year of being sober, maybe that's the time that he can start drinking the non-alcoholic stuff. What does your therapist suggest?<P>p.s. Regarding that feeling that you get...where you feel like your marriage won't work...throughout the 1st year of recovery, I got that feeling a lot! We have recovered a lot quicker than most, BUT, when my H would do something stupid. I would ask myself, "Why am I still here? Am I that stupid?" Then, I would feel disgusted with him. After a little time, then I would look at him and realize that his behavior has done a 180 and that he isn't the same lousy person that he was a year ago. There's my answer to why I stay. He's back! Anyway, the marriage has improved a lot since then. I'm crossing my fingers that it will continue to stay this way.<p>[This message has been edited by NoTrust (edited June 05, 2000).]

Oh my... Thank you so much for your replies Garden Girl, Lor and NoTrust. <P>I did call the number. It's a pay phone at a dorm house for different colleges in a nearby city. I have a feeling they called here, wrong number, and he called back to see who it was. We do that, when we don't recognize a number, or if we didn't get to the phone in time. So I'm willing to let that go.<P>However, the ODouls thing. I am with NoTrust on this one. Even our counselor said that ODouls was not made for alcoholics. <P>What needs to be understood is that my H would drink daily, from about 2PM on, then go to the bar after work. When the affair was in full swing, he was drinking from 10AM, not eating, and then meeting her at the bar afterwards. He's 35 and been drinking for half of his life. Alcoholism runs in his family. All of his siblings are alcoholics. His brother, thank goodness, has been sober now for over two years, basically because he did the same thing over two years ago. You would think the pain that my H saw his brother and fiance going through, that he'd never do this to his own life. Well... I guess that doesn't hold true!<P>Anyways, thank you all again for replying. NoTrust, I've been reading a lot of your posts and have been for awhile. I think your story fits closest to mine, and I feel a need to follow it. <P>I will be bringing this up to the counselor. And she is, too, a specialist in addictions. I think because she sees us doing so well, that it's hard for her to see the everyday thing, and both of us are conflict avoiders which doesn't help the situation. And, it's only been in the month between our visits with her that he's been on this having to have an ODouls thing. Even his family doesn't think it's a good idea for him to drink them yet. He tells me he's tired of soda and ice tea. What would happen if there was no such thing as a non alcoholic beer? What then? I shudder to think.<P>I'm trying hard to let the feeling go of our marriage not working. I want it to work, and I think the phone number thing and the ODouls was just getting to me.<P>I've done very good with the no lbing thing. Which is surprising even for me! I used to be the type to just fly off the handle, but that was after having it bottle up for so long that it just had to come out. I hate fighting and arguing so I try to avoid it at any cost. That cost was putting us both into withdrawal and having happen what happened. Ugh.<P>Well, I'll end it with that. Thanks again everyone for replying. I really, REALLY appreciate it. Any advice I can get, really helps! I hope that the therapy session goes well on Thursday, and I hope that maybe we can see her every other week or something. I don't think we're ready yet for once a month. At least I'm not. And, Lor, you're right. I do feel like I've lost my safety net. I'm not ready to do my triple sumersalt without it yet! <P>Best of luck to all of us! <P>--purplemag

Hi Purplemag,<P>Warning: This is long.<P>I'm glad that you are seeing a therapist who specializes in alcohol addiction. That is a plus. When my H found our therapist, he was looking mainly for a marital therapist, but we lucked out that she specialized in alcohol addiction too.<P>She made us see that the alcohol was the ROOT of the problem and that everything my H was feeling and how our marriage deteriorated was because of his alcohol problem.<P>For years into our marriage, it was so nice & loving. But as the alcohol problem grew worse, so did our marriage.<P>I remember those days when my H wouldn't come straight home from work. He would get out of work at 11pm and wouldn't come home until 4 in the morning. He wouldn't call....nothing, no word! I was so worried! But when he would come home, he would be so drunk, I would be repulsed by him, especially when he would want to be intimate with me or he would just pass out on any old space on the floor. It made me sick and my resentment built up.<P>However, my H didn't want to admit that he had a drinking problem. He was a major conflict avoider and when I would be angry and mention his excessive drinking, he would retreat and drink even more. He interpreted my anger for his drinking, as me not loving him anymore. The situation was that the angrier I became about his drinking, the more resentment and repulsion I felt for him. He started staying out even later, daily, left me with all the responsibilities of the household and the kids, hanging out with the other Loser guys after work, not calling, coming & going as he pleased, using our home as his stopover only...finally having an affair. and then...hating himself for becoming a person even he would loathe. He hit his own rock bottom and had no respect for himself anymore.<P>He didn't give up alcohol immediately. He still lied because alcoholics who are still drinking, lie, you know. It's part of their nature. He fell off the wagon several times.<P>When he finally woke up, and was determined to work extremely hard at staying sober, he couldn't believe what he had become...that he turned into such an @$$hole. He acted so out of character and is so ashamed for the lack of respect he has shown me, his kids, his parents, his friends and finally himself. Just the other day, he said, "I don't want my kids to remember me as an alcoholic who does all those horrible things. I'm doing so well and not drinking. You'll be proud of me. I don't want to mess up all the recovery that we have already made."<P>We are over a year in recovery. During the 1st year, sometimes I would look at him and feel repulsed by what he did to himself, to us, our marriage and our kids. But when he says things like that, it makes me remember why I am staying. His actions are proving that he means what he says. (I'm crossing my fingers 'cause I don't want to jinx it).<P>I have to be honest, but I have lost love for my H. I don't love him the way that I used to. As we are recovering, I am trying to gain that back. I was honest with my H and told him. His reply was, "I hope someday you will learn to love me like you did."<P>My H's destruction of himself and his character was what it took for him to finaly wake up. That was his rock-bottom. Unfortunately, I have become a changed person because of it too. I am no longer the same. I'm cautious, suspicious and blunt. I don't smile much anymore and don't socialize as much anymore. I'm still working on myself, but I have a feeling it will either take a long time or I'll just stay the same.<P>It's bizarre to read your Posts because our H's & our situation sounds so textbook and predictable.<BR>Sorry this reply was so long.<P>p.s. A quick note...My H also comes from an alcoholic background and drank almost 1/2 of his life. He is around the same age as your H. Unfortunately, it is hereditary. That's what my H fears for our kids.<P>If you aren't ready to see your therapist once a month, let her know. I remember when we graduated for once a month. BUT, my therapist said to call her when I need an "emergency" meeting with her. That is, when a crisis arises or if I have an anxiety attack. <p>[This message has been edited by NoTrust (edited June 06, 2000).]

Oh God, No Trust. <P>I don't even know what to say, because you have said it all. Everything. I need not type anything more here, because everything that you just said, is our situation. How eerie. <P>I am also wiping away the tears. This is so hard. I feel in my heart exactly as you. I don't love my H like I used to. I want to so badly, but it's just been totally ruined. It was being ruined up until the time of the affair because of his drinking. Dealing with that would have been enough for me. But no, he had to go throw another log onto the already out of control fire.<P>I am going to tell her on Thursday that we are not ready for just once a month yet. I'm afraid that he's been sneaking a beer here or there. He's a construction worker, and not to stereotype anyone but, it's a big drinking/party scene. Every different company he has worked at, is all the same. They all drink, most of the day, every day. So to me, I just can't see it being "that easy".<P>He says it's so easy for him not to drink. To think about the person he was, what he was doing with his life, and what he was doing to ours...it's so easy not to drink. Then why the obsession with the non alcoholic beer? What is with that anyway? Jeeze.<P>What really stunk about the whole thing, is that I found all this out exactly a day before our one month anniversary in our new house. What a slap in the face.<P>What scares me the most is exactly what you described (and as I said above). I don't feel for him the way I used to. He was everything to me. Even when I knew our marriage was basically in the toilet, even before the affair because of the drinking, when I made plans to go out, I made sure they were on nights he'd be out, because on the nights he'd be home, I'd want to spend them with him. But it got to the point that the nights he was home, he was passed out on the couch anyways.<P>I thought buying this house would change everything. Stupid, I know. Even our counselor said that! Anyways, I thought he'd understand the responsibility of now owning something this big, but little did I know that the affair was going on during this time and even after we moved. How heart breaking is that. It tears me apart to even think about it. I know we couldn't find a more perfect home, but it doesn't seem perfect to me anymore. It's tainted. This is supposed to be my dream house. It's more like that House on Haunted Hill now. <P>And, too, what I get tired of is this Plan A and being nice and everything else. People who don't live with an alcoholic don't understand. That's what we've been doing our whole life with this person. Walking on the eggshells, making sure there's no angry outbursts. I'm tired. I want some of that given back to me. I want to be the pampered one.<P>My H did say to me that he loves me more now than he ever has. It seems to him that every day his love gets stronger for me. He said he'd live every day of his life making it up to me. That's all fine and dandy, so give it up on the Odouls, then, right? Jeeze, he knows it bothers me and I'm not ready for that. So if he wants to make it up to me, shut up!<P>Now I'm ranting, I know this'll be a long one too, and for that I apologize now. I hope you've gotten this far with it. I'm sure a lot of it doesn't make sense either. My mind is going in 10 different directions and keeping this in a straight line is nearly impossible.<P>I've smiled more and had a better relationship with my H in the past 5 months than in the past 8 years I've been with him. I don't want that to stop. I want it to continue. But, if he waivers, or stumbles, I'm not sure I'm willing to be there to pick up the pieces anymore. We don't have children, thank goodness. I would not have made it through this with children. <P>Maybe this is just a down period for me. Hopefully, I'll snap out of it. See? Here I go again, thinking everything is me. Some of it is, but I take the burden for both of us.<P>I don't know about your H, but mine is the proverbial "dead head". He worries about nothing, and thinks that life should be a big happy event. Ugh. I'm on the opposite end, I worry about everything. Insessantly. <P>I've rambled enough, I"m sorry. Thank you for writing what you did. I couldn't have said it any better. It's like you can read my mind with this crap. Which is scary. I hate that other people are going through this same thing. It just isn't fair. But who said life is fair? Ha. <P>NoTrust, thanks again for replying. I do appreciate it. And thank you for helping me get through this.<P>Do you go to Al Anon? Does your H go to AA? My H refuses to go to AA. Doesn't want to have anything to do with it. Just wondering what that's like on your end.<P>Thanks! -- purplemag

Hi Purplemag,<P>Still so bizarre! My H & I have been married for a little over 7 years....close to how long you have been married.<P>For 1 year, my H was obsessed about buying a house. We finally bought one. Think he would be happy? Nope! We had only lived in our house for 6 months and then he started his compulsive drinking and went out and had an affair. He lost interest in our house and everything else for that matter....everything except drinking!<P>As for AA, our therapist kept encouraging my H to go. He went to one meeting and couldn't get himself to go to anymore. He still couldn't get himself to admit that he was an alcoholic. The therapist recommended that he go to AA, said that he didn't need rehab since he proved that he could avoid alcohol for weeks at a time....but since he refused to go to AA again, she said that her therapy sessions will have to do for now.<P>I did go to Alanon for awhile. I felt lots of support there but after attending several meetings, I felt that they were vering off to other topics....NOT alcohol related.<P>I continued to go to therapy and with my H's cooperation and willing to work on our recovery, we are doing well.<P>Yes, I do understand what you mean about stereotyping construction workers. My H used to be in construction and said the same thing that you did. Most of them would go out to drink afterwards....or just sit there after their day was done and drink.<P>If your H is obsessed with drinking non-alcoholic beer, then my guess is that he isn't ready. It sounds like your therapist agrees.<P>I'm glad that we can help each other through this. Our stories are just too similar.

NoTrust...<P>Okay, this is getting scary! Holy mackeral!<P>I don't want to force the issue with AA. He even told the therapist he doesn't want to do that. If he's having a bad time of it, he said he'd come to me, if I'm not available, go to her (the therapist), and if she's not available, then go to AA. <P>Before this whole thing, my H never believed in counseling. I went to two different counselors since I've been married and I came out of both realizing that it wasn't me. That what I was feeling was because of him. I'd try to get him to go and he wouldn't. <P>But this, I guess was enough to push him over the edge. He wanted it. He wanted the counseling, but only if I was willing to go. Duh, like I haven't been asking for this for the past 5 years! <P>I think what scares me the most, even though he feels he had hit rock bottom with the drinking starting at 10AM and going non stop throughout the day, and then the affair, I still feel like he stopped drinking FOR me. Not for him. I don't think if I didn't stick around, he wouldn't of stopped drinking. I really want to believe that he did it for himself and not for me. I told him that in the beginning. That he needs to stop for himself not for me. But he says that I am him. I am his whole life. <P>Just realizing this now? Gee, thanks. I guess it just feels like it's a slap in the face. That it took this to finally get him to realize the damage he was doing. Not only to me and our relationship, but to him and his other relationships. <P>I hear from his sister that his friends (volleyball), were really worried that he'd kill himself one day drinking and driving as much as he did. Well, that's all great, and I appreciate that they are really excited that he's finally quit drinking, but hey, if they were that worried, why didn't they say anything. Wasn't their place? Balony! It's everyone's place. If you feel that strongly about it, and you care that much about someone, to call them your friend no less, they should have said something to him. Regardless if he were to listen to them or not.<P>I'm angry that I've put up with the drinking for so long and he had the audasity to go out and have an affair. After everything I've done for this relationship. The only need I never met (and he agrees with this) is that I didn't drink, and didn't want him to drink. So, he found that freak that would drink and would allow it. Great. <P>I know my part in this. My part was enabling him. I hate to think of it that way, but everytime I threatened to leave because of his drinking, I just couldn't do it. I had my bags packed once and I never made it out the door. I've looked for apartments for myself many a time, but that's all it ever amounted to.<P>I don't know. I guess I just want this to progress and be out of my life. I'm tired of worrying about it. I'm tired of having to think about it. I don't want to anymore. But it's there. Always in the head. Yuck.<P>Again, NoTrust, many thanks to you. For letting me see just even a little bit of your life, so I know I am not alone. It makes it all the worthwhile going through this. I hope I will be helping someone else out on this website a year from now as you have done for me.<P>It truly is a blessing you have replied to me. I thank you for that.<P>I want to say we'll get through this, but I guess I just have to take it day by day. I'm such an impatient person. A definite generation x'er - you know the ones, immediate gratification, when you want something you want it now, you don't want to wait for it. They are hard lessons for me to learn, but I think I am learning them. Definitely the patience thing. I think if I really didn't have any, I wouldn't be here now.<P>I am really looking forward to the therapy session on Thursday. It's what's keeping me going right now, and I promise I won't lb him there. But sometimes, I just feel safer talking about things in there with the therapist there. Kind of like a mediator. So he sees that I am not trying to make him defensive, but just aware of my concerns. He seems more open to hear things from me in counseling than when we're alone. Weird. But I'll communicate any way I can. If that's the way we have to do it for now, then so be it.<P>Again, NoTrust, many thanks!<P>--purplemag<BR>

Hi Purplemag,<P>About the counseling...I remember when my H mentioned therapy, I wasn't sure if I wanted to go...then I decided a week later than we SHOULD go...well, he changed his mind. He had already decided that he was going to find comfort with alcohol and with OW. In fact, I think I believe that he had already met her but hadn't slept with her yet.<P>After he refused therapy, I remember him staying out later & later, not coming home after work. Sometimes when he would work from 7am-3pm, he wouldn't call or nothing...yet, he wouldn't come home until 4 in the morning....then it started becoming 7 in the morning or even later! Or those days when he would say, I'm going to the gym, I'll be back in a little while....well, a little while, turned out to be 10 freakin' hours!<P>Boy! Do I hate him for that! I am still amazed how a spouse can treat their spouse with such disrespect. All of the crappy things that he did to me, which I didn't deserve at all.<P>I remember 4 yr old son beginning to have nightmares. I told him about it. It started when my H started all that. Did he believe that it had to be because of him? No! He didn't. However, I knew better. Is it coincidental that the nightmares stopped after my H started acting normal again? I think not. I know that my child's nightmares began because of the turmoil in this household.<P>Boy! What the betrayed spouse has to put up with because their betraying spouse is acting like a total jerk! They have no clue....no idea what they do to their spouse or families! They have no idea how destructive they are and how their behavior affects another human being.<P>I don't know about you, but as for me, I am not the same person. I think that I am slowly growing back into the person that I was....but I don't think that I will completely be there. I am a scarred and changed person and I won't ever be the same as I was.<P>The innocence in marriage and my relationship is forever gone. I did have an excellent marriage prior to this affair.<P>People say, "you can have a marriage that was better than ever after surviving an affair...."<P>But, what if your marriage was great before the affair? How can it be better than that? The alcohol was what destroyed my marriage.<P>My H and I can have a good marriage again. I am already experiencing that...BUT, it won't ever be the way that it was.<P>Sorry for this long reply (mostly rant, I think). What are your views regarding your situation?

Hi NoTrust!<P>The one thing my H never did was stay out all night long. His work day ends around 4PM and he would get home around 7PM. I can't imagine driving home after drinking from 10AM to 6PM. Yuck. The OW has a family too. She's married, and has 4 kids! Great role model for them, huh? <P>The one part though, I can relate, is him saying he's going out to the store to pick something up, or going to so and so's house, and he'd be out for 10 hours or more. That, I do hate him for. And, most of the time, he would be on his motorcycle for crying out loud. I think he must of had some kind of death wish or something. What upsets me the most about that, is I met my H the day after one of my best friend's funerals. He was killed on his motorcycle, drinking and driving. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Boy! What the betrayed spouse has to put up with because their betraying spouse is acting like a total jerk! They have no clue....no idea what they do to their spouse or families! They have no idea how destructive they are and how their behavior affects another human being.<P>I don't know about you, but as for me, I am not the same person. I think that I am slowly growing back into the person that I was.... but I don't think that I will completely be there. I am a scarred and changed person and I won't ever be the same as I was.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That says it all right there in a nutshell. I don't think my H will ever know the pain I have gone through during our lives together. With the alcohol abuse and then with the affair. My friends tell me they'd be more worried about him starting drinking again and not still being in contact with the OW, however, I think I'm equally scared by both of them. <P>I'm scared everyday that I come on to the board, that I will recognize a story to be hers. ...but that's a whole 'nother story!<P>The one thing I can say is that I did NOT have an excellent marriage before all this. I had to deal with the alcohol from day one. And as much as I'm against alcohol, I cannot to this day explain why I married an alcoholic. Maybe I thought I could change him. Maybe it was because his family, from day one coming into his life, told me the major changes they saw in him, thanking me for coming into his life. I just don't know. <BR>I know my marriage right now, is better than it ever was. It's like we're dating all over again. We spend all our free time together. We don't feel compelled to go out on our own without one another. We want each other there by each other's sides when we're out.<P>But, going out is hard. He gets fixated on that Odoul's thing. Thank goodness the counseling session is tomorrow night. I'm like a bubble ready to burst on that subject. I just hope she tells him what I want to hear. Does that make sense? I don't want her to see the surface stuff, I want her to see what's really going on. I think she will. She's helped us so much. I think we're lucky in that we've too, recovered a lot faster than most. <P>I just am still having my doubts, but I know that's "normal". My friend told me the other day, it's like I'm still sitting on the fence as to what to do. I still think I'm on the side of going for it, but that fence is just a couple of feet away, ya know? There are some days that the fence looks acres away from me, and there are other days where I sit right next to it looking through it to the other side. This past weekend was one of those times. But, I feel that I'm starting to back away from it again, which is good. We'll see what happens after tomorrow night.<P>I think that's basically my situation in a nutshell. The fence is in sight, and I'd really like it not to be. One way or the other. My H does know that if he starts drinking again, I will leave. Our therapist said that I have to be ready with that decision should it happen. I think I am. Because, I can't go through this again. I have been nothing but supportive, every Saturday I wish him a happy -- weeks! This Saturday it'll be 21 weeks. We'll see.<P>All I can do is be patient. Patient and understanding. But, if he screws up, that's it for me. I've been dealing with this for too long to have to start all over again with him. I love him with all my heart, and know that I always will, but in a way, I feel mentally abused by the whole thing. The drinking, the affair. This isn't what I signed up for. <P>I'm sure as you can tell, I still have a bit of anger left in me. This is the only spot (and to my friends) that I can let it out. I won't take it out on him. <P>Okay, I've ranted a bit myself. I have to run - got some work to do!<P>Again, NoTrust, many thanks for your replies.<P>--purplemag<BR>

Purplemag, NoTrust,<BR>I think we each have the same husband! Mine did exactly as yours. NoTrust, I could have written your post, with very few changes. He has been an alcoholic <B>all</B> of his adult life. He has not hit his rockbottom yet, but has gotten close with his last issue with the law. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>However, my H didn't want to admit that he had a drinking problem. He was a major conflict avoider and when I would be angry and mention his excessive drinking, he would retreat and drink even more. He interpreted my anger for his drinking, as me not loving him anymore. The situation was that the angrier I became about his drinking, the more resentment and repulsion I felt for him. He started staying out even later, daily, left me with all the responsibilities of the household and the kids, hanging out with the other Loser guys after work, not calling, coming & going as he pleased, using our home as his stopover only...finally having an affair. and then...hating himself for becoming a person even he would loathe.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't have any advice, except to trust in God and let Him handle it. Purplemag, I think I would stand behind him in that he has done so well. It sounds like he is trying very hard. I too would have a problem with non-alcoholic beer. And I agree 100%, that <B>Alcohol is the ROOT of the problem</B>. Some days I wish we could sue the beer companies for all the destruction in our lives! <P>God bless you. <p>[This message has been edited by Alcoholic's Wife (edited June 07, 2000).]

Alcoholic's Wife:<P>Hmmm....has anyone ever tried it? Sueing the beer companies? What the heck, people are sueing the cigarette companies, AND WINNING. You may have an idea there. Not that I'd ever be able to do anything like that, but hey, I'm sure it can be done!<P>Thanks for your reply. I don't want anyone to think he hasn't done really well or that I think that. My H has come such a long way. It really is like living with a new person. He's affectionate, he understands me, he listens (whoa, there's a new one!), and he's sensitive to me and my emotions. I think that shows with the Odoul business, that he asks me and gets a feel for me about it before he just goes ahead and does it. <P>His friends and family have all commented to me about how much he's changed. They feel so much more at ease around him. They can actually have intelligent conversations with him and emotions and feelings and life. <P>No question about how far he's come. But that's what kind of scares me. That he knows how far he's come and now he wants to push the envelope. See how far he can take it. I'm afraid of a backslide. Of him getting comfortable with the Odouls, then thinking "Oh, I can handle this. Why not try a real one? I'm sure I can handle that now." That's what I'm afraid of.<P>Maybe in a year or so, when we know he's really worked through it. I know I'd at least have a lesser of a problem with it if that's how long it's been, but it hasn't. Only 21 weeks this coming Saturday. And for someone who's drank so much, most of their life, I feel it's too soon.<P>Again, AW, thank you for your reply. It really helps when people reply that are going through the same thing.<P>Thank you! -- purplemag

Purplemag,<P>I think that it is great that your H has been sober for 21 weeks. That is an accomplishment! Remember to acknowledge and congratulate your H. Let him know that you are proud of him. I'm sure that it will mean a lot to him.<P>At first, I was too filled with anger to even congratulate my H for his efforts. All I kept focusing on was the affair. Sometimes he would say, "Aren't you proud of me? I have stayed away from alcohol for "x" days/weeks/months?" I think it was important for my H that I acknowledge his efforts. It encouraged him and gave him strength to know that he had my support through good times and in bad. One day, I was really surprised when he said to me, "You are such a strong person for have put up with a lot."<P>Another comment that my H said was, "Only one good thing came out of this, (even though the affair was bad and I hurt you, myself and everyone else), it made me realize that I had a drinking problem and I knew that I had to give it up."<P>So...Purplemag, if your H falls off the wagon, forgive him and give him another chance. I know that it will be hard but I won't be surprised if your H has a relapse and a drinking bout. Hopefully, it will be just one, and he will go back and try again. I think it is normal.<P>The last time my H fell off the wagon, I had to be convinced to stay with him. I had just enough of that alcohol bull crap and was so sick of it. But, I stayed with him and things are improving.<P>I still have my guard up, still don't completely trust him, but it is getting better each day that he shows me with his actions that he is willing to do anything to save our marriage and himself too (from the alcohol addiction).<P>I guess that's what keeps me here.<P>AW: Isn't this textbook and so predictable? It's scary, weird and frustrating all at the same time. I keep saying my prayers and leaving my trust in God. He's the only one who I know who I can trust and won't let me down.<p>[This message has been edited by NoTrust (edited June 08, 2000).]

Hi NoTrust!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I think that it is great that your H has been sober for 21 weeks. That is an accomplishment! Remember to acknowledge and congratulate your H. Let him know that you are proud of him. I'm sure that it will mean a lot to him.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I do! I do! I wish him a happy xx weeks every Saturday. I think he does appreciate it. I think he's proud of himself. He's a good guy, he really is. He likes praise, but he's not good at receiving it. I think it embarrasses him. But, I give it anyway. I even, out of the blue sometimes, just tell him I'm proud of him. Because I really am. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Another comment that my H said was, "Only one good thing came out of this, (even though the affair was bad and I hurt you, myself and everyone else), it made me realize that I had a drinking problem and I knew that I had to give it up."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My H said almost those exact words to me! However, he went so far as almost thanking the OW for this. Hello? It was I that was always there for you, sober, or not. Asking, pleading, to curb the drinking a bit. I was literally afraid for his life. And, to that extent, mine too. Everything I had to lose if he were to hit and kill someone drinking or driving. It was as much a selfish request as a geniune plea for him to straighten up. And he wants to thank her? I don't think so.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>So...Purplemag, if your H falls off the wagon, forgive him and give him another chance. I know that it will be hard but I won't be surprised if your H has a relapse and a drinking bout. Hopefully, it will be just one, and he will go back and try again. I think it is normal.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Okay, this scares me to death. Because I don't know if I can handle it. We went through this a year after we were married. Although he didn't have an affair (so he says), it was pretty damn close to happening and he said it was the beer. He'd quit drinking. He did for a month. Then went back full force to it. So, I've lived through the heartache once, I'm not so sure I can do it again. That's where that comes from. Ugh!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I still have my guard up, still don't completely trust him, but it is getting better each day that he shows me with his actions that he is willing to do anything to save our marriage and himself too (from the alcohol addiction).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ...ditto!<P>Tonight's therapy, and he knows I'm going to be bringing all of this up with her (the therapist). He was actually talking about the Odouls thing on the phone last night with his friend! I heard the "oh, I'll just keep pestering her until she lets me". Great, just what I wanted to hear. <P>We'll get through this. One way or another. I don't want this marriage to end. But if it ever does, I know I gave it my all. That sets my soul at ease just a tad!<P>Again, many thanks for your reply. Sorry for quoting you so much, but it is such a mirror image, it's frightening!<P>Your H doesn't happen to be Irish does he? <P>--purplemag

Purplemag,<P>I'm so glad that your therapy session is this evening. Your H does sound too obsessed with this O'Douls beer. I can't believe he had a conversation about it with his friend.<P>My H is 1/2 Irish! The other part of him is English and Canadian/French. So, your H is Irish too? If he is, then we sure are having some similarities. Hey! Maybe our H's are related in some way...LOL!<P>When I was referring to the falling off the wagon...I meant like if your H went out ONE TIME and had too much to drink. This is what happenned in my case and I didn't know how to deal with it. I wanted to leave because I didn't want to make him think that I didn't mean whatever it is that I say to him.<P>A relative convinced me to stay because my husband has this disease and it's normal that he would go into withdrawal and fall off the wagon. In addition, my H was crying and begging for forgiveness so my heart softened.<P>It's so hard to be so "cut & dry" with addictions. But I know that I REFUSE to tolerate another affair or the continuous drinking like he did before.<P>Did you watch that interesting segment on 20/20 last night? The topic was "alcholism...."

p.s. When your H attributes his willingness to quit drinking because of the OW, think of it this way...the OW was his rock-bottom. Because of his addiction, he lowered himself by having an affair and doing something that he will be forever ashamed of by being associated with her...

NoTrust:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR><B>p.s. When your H attributes his willingness to quit drinking because of the OW, think of it this way...the OW was his rock-bottom. Because of his addiction, he lowered himself by having an affair and doing something that he will be forever ashamed of by being associated with her... </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ummm...this is going to sound horrible, but GOOD! I hope he is forever ashamed of it! Yikes. There's a little anger there, sorry. <P>But, in all seriousness, I do know what you mean. In the same conversations as this Odouls stuff, I know that people (friends, family) are asking him how he is doing, how long has it been, do you ever feel the need to drink...etc. And, he always tells them (in my presence or not - cause I hear it afterwards! ) that he has no desire whatsoever to drink. That he doesn't even think about it. He feels so much better now that he doesn't drink, and he's so happy now, that it doesn't even cross his mind.<P>While I love these answers that I hear, that's where this obsessive stuff about the Odouls comes in. If he doesn't even think about it, why then does he want the Odouls so bad? Ugh. It's wearing me out.<P>I'm just glad we'll be able to hash all this stuff out tonight and get a "second" opinion on it all. <P>For someone who has been drinking over half their lives, he really didn't go through much withdrawal from it. The only withdrawal I noticed was these terrible headaches he got at the end of the day for about three weeks. Then they went away and that's been about it. <P>Where my afraidness (if that's a word) comes in, is that it just kinda seemed too easy to get over. But, if it lasts, so be it!<P>When you talked about falling off the wagon, where he'd go out ONE TIME... well, the problem would be that he'd go out that one time, and that'd be it. He'd be thrown back into the pit of hell. I don't think he'd be able to recover after going out just that one time. It's either all or nothing for him. No in betweens. I'm hoping I'm dead wrong. I really am. <P>It's funny, the friends and family that are the heavy drinkers, they don't see my point about the Odouls. The friends and family that don't drink all that often, don't understand it. I'm one of those people that doesn't drink at all, so I'm really lost on the whole subject. <P>I remember in the beginning of our relationship, I tried to keep up with him and the family with the drinking. Everytime I drank, I got sick. It was not pleasurable for me. I hated not being in control. I couldn't imagine that feeling all the time. I think I would have lost it.<P>I saw the latter half of that special last night. H was already asleep. <P>I was also watching Comedy Central on Tuesday night, and there was this one guy on there, he was funny. The one thing that he said, that made me laugh (and bring a little lightness to this whole alcoholic thing) was: "Have you ever noticed that alcoholism is the only disease you can have where you get yelled at for having it? I mean, listen, Tony, you have lupus!!!! Tony, you're an alcoholic!!!!! Which one doesn't sound quite right?" Well... I lost it. Isn't it the truth. <P>On that note, I'll stop rambling.<P>Thanks! Purplemag<P>

PS...I gotta quit typing so much. My replies are becoming short novels!!!

Hi Purplemag,<P>I don't mind your long posts & replies. I tend to do the same thing.<P>You have a good point there! If your H feels that he is in control of his drinking, then he wouldn't be obsessed with this O'Douls' beer.<P>I'm glad that your H will bring up this O'Douls issue at this evening's therapy session. Maybe your therapist will have a bigger impact on him, being that she is an outsider and not emotionally tied as a close friend or relative would be.<P>Yes, you are right. Sometimes relatives DO NOT give good advice, especially if they are alcohol enablers themselves.<P>Here's an example. I was complaining about my H going out so often and drinking. One suggestion that my relative advised was, "How about having a supply of beer in your frig so that there won't be any need for him to go to the bar!"<P>Well...I stupidly tried that, and it didn't make an ounce of difference. It enabled him to drink even more. He drank at home and then still left for the bar! It got worse from there! If I addressed the problem by not being tolerant to it, rather than enabling it, then maybe things for us would have had a different outcome. Unfortunately, too late for wishful thinking.<P>I do know that I won't ever listen to the advice from an "enabler" ever again.<P>Here's something that we can ponder on....WE, meaning you & I have become more educated about these issues and how to deal with them, stronger from what we have been through, and patient.<P>I never realized just how patient I could be until all this mess happenned!<P>p.s. I also don't ever want my H to forget what he did to our marriage and family. I know that I won't forget it!<p>[This message has been edited by NoTrust (edited June 08, 2000).]