I haven't posted in a long time but here I am once again. If this belongs over in the recovery, please let me know. I don't really know where I belong at this point.<P>Quick recap...my H has an EA for 2.5 years during which time I gave birth to babies number 3, 4 and 5. The affair has ended. Discovery was Feb 2000 and he's only called her once since then to tell her it is over. <P>He seems to be doing all the right things. Seems to be 101% sincere in trying to change. Is very concerned about me. Pretty much let's me call the shots if it gives me the security I need as a result of his actions and my new heightened fear.<P>Mind you, he's done this all before. A one night PA in 95, went to a marriage counselor, and then when I learned of his desires for another woman in 97 we went through self-counseling using MB materials and the forum. (Where we live counselors were not available at that time.) It was this 97 desire for the OW that blossomed into an EA for 2.5 years to the extent that he wanted to marry her, while still married to me. (Legal where we live.)<P>SO! Having said all of that, my feelings are such that I feel like for each step he takes towards me, I am taking a step away from him. I'm sure it's my defenses kicking in. I'm also sure that rather than feeling anger or revenge I am only now feeling the full impact of the complications of his affair. Meaning, the lies he had to tell, the feelings he had for her, feelings he had for me, his disrespect for his children and I, the way he had changed, etc etc.<P>As I said, he is beyond all of that now, or so it woudl appear, and is really making changes for the better and so on and so on. But I just can't move forward myself at this point.<P>I do try to do things that will make him happy but even so, I'm afraid to be happy myself. Even if for a moment. Yes I do laugh but then I feel frightened immediately afterwards. Just everything scares me. Even seeing a beautiful slender young woman in the store brings me to tears because this is how the OW looks and I do not.<P>I know that part of my problem is this as well; though his feelings for the OW are diminishing, and his feelings for me are growing, his OPINION of the OW is still very high. In fact, he still fails to find any fault with her even though an outsider looking in can clearly see how this woman had the blueprints to making him happy and that I did not. Sparing you the details, it is accurate to say my H spoon fed her on how to make him happy and she was smart enough to take her queues from him. So although his feelings for her have changed, his opinion of her has not. That frightens me more than anything.<P>My counselor seems to be reading out of text book and is of little use to me now and I know of no other I can go to, except all of you here at the forum. I hope any one of you can please help me out to move forward! (It really ought to be that counselors have first hand experience at that which they advise on. It's like a priest discussing sex and marital problems...what does he really know? Nothing!)<P>I want to work things out with my husband with all my heart but I just am really stuck and I don't know if I'm being unreasonable in my expectations. I feel I can't move forward because I know what he still thinks of this woman. And in my mind, until his OPINION of her changes, our marriage is still in danger from her. Even if his feelings change, his heavenly thoughts of her have not. But if his heavenly thoughts of her can change, his feelings will automatically follow. So I feel I would be foolish to take comfort in the fact that he now has diminishing love for this woman.<P>Further, he refuses to see through the facade she put on. He doesnt see how he spoon fed her on how to make him happy, doesn't see how I was at the disadvantage, doesn't see how she could have known that her desire for him was harmful (go figure!)...etc, etc. He still very much protects the memory of her even though his feelings for her are dwindling.<P>It's been just three months, nearly four, since discovery. I know everyone is at their own pace. His way of dealing with this is to just keep busy. Probelm is, in doing so, he never re-examines the evidence so he never has the chance to reach a new verdict. In which case, she will forever remain heaven sent.<P>Perhaps all that is needed is time. However, as time passes, even if he does eventually come to see she isn't so heavenly after all, where will I be by then regarding my feelings for him? Like I said, because the pain is so intense now, given the full reality of what he did over these last two years having set in, and knowing he still holds her in high regard, how in the world do I move forward? Do I even need to wait for him to move forward before I can reasonably expect to do so myself? I just dont see how I can when I know how he thinks about her. I'm don't even feel the desire to do so knowing how he thinks of her. Again, I am more concerned that he still thinks highly of her even though his feelings are fading and maybe someone can make better sense of all of this than I.<P>Looking forward to real help from all of you! Thanks ever so much.

Is there hope,<P>I may not have great advice for you...but wanted to offer support, because even though I am separated and not even talking about reconciliation...my H's EA with a coworker is the same. <P>He believes every word she says...she has been setting him up for years...she is a covert manipulator and portrayed herself as a victim (in her own marraige), played the servant role cloaking her self-serving agenda in the guise of service to a more noble cause!!!!!! and then had him on a long business trip and seduced him by charming, praising etc.<P>My H is extremely emotionally needy and well....he fell for it and became an entirely different person to rationalize what he is doing...namely walking out on me and his three kids.....without ever telling us there was a problem.<P>Everyone in my H's entire world (family, friends, colleagues (except in his office where she has portrayed me a a witch))sees through this OP's manipulation, but him!!!<P>I suppose my advice to you now that you are attempting to recover is to get out the ENs' quesitionairre and find out what his needs are and how you can work on meeting those needs.<P>If you are not satisfied with your counselor I think you should find a new one. Better yet, one of the Harley's on the phone would be better.<P>Also, look at the post I started called Be Aware....copy it and give it to your H. I posted it to Believe because she is feeling these intense longing feelings for an internet love........anyway.....a few others saw it and liked the passage. It talks about what love really is!!!!<P>good luck.....I am actually not sure I am willing to deal with my H's intense feelings for the OP...I had been warning him about her for years...and he still fell for it. Maybe my H just needs too much!!!!!

Is there hope:<P>It sounds as though you've made great strides in your marriage in just four months. I am sorry you have such a tough stumbling block.<P>First, let me make sure I understand. (If I'm wrong I'll edit my response.) Your H has cut off contact with OW, right? You're worried because he still has feelings for her?<P>If that is correct, I'm afraid you're not going to like my advice: be patient. It takes a while to get over another person, and he is doing very well if has given her up entirely. That suggests to me that he really knows you are the best for him; he is just longing for that fantasy. I think it will pass.<P>Don't push. Just try to be the best person you can be, for both of your sakes.<P>All the best. You're doing great! --HBC

Thank you both for your replies.<P>HBC-<BR>I have to agree that time is probably the key to all of this that is going on. What I'm wondering at this point, however, is in my attempt to be patient and endearing, how do I keep from withdrawing to the point of no return?<P>I can see he is clearly and beautifully cleaning up his act. For which I can't thank God enough, really. And I recognize that my situation is moving forward in a positive direction. Given the pain I feel however, I can really tell that I'm pulling away from him now that the anger has settled and I sit here, mostly, feeling only deeply saddened by what happened.<P>I try to keep in mind that he is human, entitled to his mistakes, entitled to forgiveness as well. I remind myself of my love for him, the things I continue to like about him, all the reasons to continue on with him. I even recall my own experiences where before he betrayed me and we struggled and got to a better place in our marriage than where we were...all evidence that it CAN be done...and yet I sit here still withdrawing.<P>I'm really worried I will withdraw to the point of no return. perhaps the fact that I'm worried about it will be enough check and balance tokeep it from actually occurring but I am desperate to know if there is a way to keep from going that far.<P>My "stupid" counselor says to just give it time and see how I feel. Well shoot, I can forecast that with accuracy. If something doesn't change soon to snap me out of this, nothing will change about how I feel.<P>I don't want to withdraw from him. I don't wnat to end the marriage. It's just "happening". I think what has happened is that regardless of our history, this particular incident has changed me deeper than anythign else he has ever done before. I suppose, in short, it scares me for it has changed how I see him. And I find that's a really sad thought.<P>I try to keep busy, try not to dwell or obsess abuot all of this but I'm not very successful on many days. Lots of triggers. Lots and LOTS of those. <P>One question I'd like a specific opinion on, from anyone really! I'm I off base or on track to be concerned about his opinion vs his feelings for this OW? Meaning, that I am less concerned for his feelings fading than I am about his opinion of her changing. ARe things happening normally with him, that his feelings fade first and later his opinion of her will as well? Or am I right to be highly concerned that he will never change his opinion of her and thereby leaving himself completely vulnerable to her should she emerge at a later date?<P>Thank you for your thoughts and support. Hope I am able to further pick your brain! This forum is really a wonderful place. Even though I've never met any of you, the sharing of each person's story, thoughts and advice to one another is so much more helpful than a counselor. Thank you.

Hope <BR>I think this is normal. <BR>My theory on this concept of feelings for the OW is that some of them cannot admit the faults of the OW because.....<BR>It would make them look even worse, feel even more guilt.<P>They have this image of the person. That image doesn't include much reality. After all they didn't live in a real situation with that person did they? They didn't have the arguements over who took out the garbage, who did the dishes, how do we pay those bills etc. So this was two fantasy people living in a fantasy world. Of course they only used their company manners.<P>So they have to see the bad side. We all have faults. When our spouse sees those faults in the OP he starts to feel even more like a jerk. It's one thing to fall in love with "the perfect woman". But how do you justify falling in love with a normal human being with faults when You are already married to one of those people...and...the one you are married to is very giving, understanding and forgiving.<P>I think the role that time plays here is that they need to be ready to admit to the mistaken perception. I believe it will happen. It's happening here very slowly. And remember my H had a sureal image of the Bimbo for many many years. It has been 10 months since he saw her and I am getting the odd admittance that I was right about things. That she was a user, that she was selfish, that she wasn't very nice to other people....<BR>Along with that goes the acknowledgement that my H was mistaken. That is not an easy thing to admit to. Having an affair is bad enough. Having an affair with someone who wasn't worth it is much worse. Give him time. Give yourself time. Let yourself feel the feelings that need to be felt. <P>I know how frightening the withdrawal from him can be. Maybe you can concentrate on feeling better about yourself. Not so much on how you feel about him. Maybe now is the time for you to be a bit selfish and spend less time thinking about the relationship. Try to get some of that self esteem back. That can do wonders for the relationship in the end.<P>One thing that struck me in the beginning of your post. You said you try to keep in mind that he is human. There was a similar phrase in Smedes' "Forgive and Forget". It went something like "remember that they are weak somewhat stupid individuals that made a mistake." I will never forget reading that. The weak part certainly applies in many situations. My H was too weak to do the right thing a lot of the time. But then again, if he was strong he probably wouldn't have ever fallen for Bimbo's act.<BR>Okay! Enough rambling! Take care of yourself. Remember those hormones aren't completely recovered yet either.