Well, this might be a little long so bear with me....<P>OK, I've been doing that Plan A thing and guess what??? H notices!!!! He said something like "you're being nicer to me".....is this a call for a celebration? <P>Even though I'm happy about that, there is something that is bothering me greatly. It is my relationship with his mother. I know you guys have heard me in the past what I've said about her and all, but it DOES bother me. I think somehow the both of them (H & his mother) are using this "silence" thing against me and are in fact "pushing" him away from me even though he's been nice to me. I don't understand it myself other than I've sat down and thought about all the times that me and her have gotten into arguments, some have been my fault, some have been hers. I've gone to her twice and apologized, she nevers has or will. I don't understand it, can people really be "set" in their ways when they get older (she's only 43, I think)?<P>OK, another thing that's been bothering me is my relationship with my mother. I don't know if I've said this to anybody, but she has harmed me a GREAT deal in my past. She is the reason I am the person I am today, the person that can't really trust people. I'm not going to lie, I can't trust because of what she did........I'll talk about that some other time because that would be a post all its own if I even get the guts to tell what happened to me......I don't think it would be a good idea if a lot of people knew what happened to me......OK, back to her, she's the reason why things have been happening the way they are. She's the reason why I ran to my H when I "left" (I wouldn't call it running away because I was 18 and the police said I was legal to leave if I wanted) my mom's house.<P>I guess I'm very confused as to what I'm suppose to be doing right now. I talked with my pastor and she told me that I needed to "tell her off" to get some of this stuff out of me, but I feel like it would be wasting my time because all she does is deny everything she's done to me and my brother. I am kinda scared that I'm just like her and that's why I'm having problems with my marriage. I'm really convinced that none of this would've happened if I hadn't of come over here when I "left" my mother. Don't get my wrong, I love my H dearly and I will continue to fight for us, but I'm worried that all of this stuff happening to me is all my fault and that nobody did anything wrong except me.........the only reason why I'm thinking like this is because EVERYBODY that I tell my situation to IMMEDIATELY asks what I did or something to that effect. That is why I'm wondering if I didn't make all this crap up or something weird like that.<P>OK, I'm going to warn you guys now. For my own safety, I think I told too much information so either sometime in the next few days, don't be surprised if I start "deleting" stuff out of this post. I've never liked sharing my business but I feel I must because there's something awfully wrong. <P>[u]Please don't tell me to go to a counselor. I would just like opinions without the "you need meds" or "go to therapy". I've heard so much of that, but I've also learned that no matter how much I hear it, it has to be MY decision to go. Just as I've learned "the hard way" that I can't "make" anybody do anything, I've also learned to nobody can make me do anything either. I understand a lot of you might see this as selfish, but I don't want to go unless I feel "comfortable". The was the mistake with the first two counselors, I didn't feel comfortable with them and they ended up getting mad at me because I wouldn't talk.<P>This whole post probably sounds confusing, but then again, I am pretty confused right now as I'm thinking about stuff that happened to me as a child and my marriage all at the same time. It gets pretty hard sometimes, you know? All that I ask is that you please don't get mad at me. One of the reasons why I don't "share" personal info is because my mother used to get mad at me for talking about it. I want to be at peace, I'm tired of being at war with myself and everybody else (yes, I know what this sounds like....you guys think I've lost it). I don't "feel" strong and I don't look it either.<P>So, please, don't be mad at me anymore. Thanks.<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/zbucketmouse" TARGET=_blank>http://www.geocities.com/zbucketmouse</A> is where my page is. Oh yeah, THANKS EVERYBODY FOR REPLIES!!!:) Very much appreciated!:)

Oh yeah, I probably won't be doing too much posting these days because this thing is really bothering me. So if it seems like I've "disappeared" for awhile, it's because I'm still dealing with this. Thanks for understanding.<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/zbucketmouse" TARGET=_blank>http://www.geocities.com/zbucketmouse</A> is where my page is. Oh yeah, THANKS EVERYBODY FOR REPLIES!!!:) Very much appreciated!:)

Hi Yuki Miaka -<P>This I can help you with, I think....<P>The best way to sort out your thoughts and to convey them to someone else without confrontation is to write them down......<P>My first suggestion is for you to get a notebook and write all your thoughts down.<P>Go back as far as you remember....write about everything - the good stuff, the bad stuff, your fears, your questions, all of it......<P>As you are doing this, you will start to feel better.....just purging it all out of your brain will help you so much!!!<P>Once completed - see how you feel....you may not have the need to confront your mother after that. You may have realized a lot of why you are the way you are and it may help you to change things to make life better.<P>I really recomment this for you - I think that this is so important for a lot of us to do!!! Just write it....<P>Big Hugs to you,<P>Sheba

I agree with Sheba. If counseling hasn't worked for you, try writing down all of your feelings and experiences. The act of spelling them all out often helps you sort them out, and rereading and editing your story helps more.<P>Look inside yourself and see who you are. Once you are honest with yourself about who you are, then you can begin to work on your relationships with other people.<P>All the best. --HBC

Miaka...<BR> I agree with Sheba & HBC, so do not have much to add (at least, not within what you've given us to work with). So, I really am writing this just to say hello, and that I am thinking of you. <BR> Take care--<P>Kathi

Hi Miaka,<BR> I haven't responded to you previously... I usually just lurk.<BR> At any rate, your post drew me out. I was abused by my mother. This was many years ago, and we have come to terms with it, since. My mom still expresses regret and remorse for the things that happened. I tell her that it is water under the bridge, at this point. <BR> I have a feeling that you are still very young... and possibly at the point I was at, when I was very early in my first marriage. <BR> I was still dealing with pain and depression about my childhood... I pushed everyone away from me, including my *then* H. <BR> I finally accepted that the past is just that, the past. There is nothing I can do to change it, much as I would like to. I agree with Sheba. Write down your every-day thoughts on things that occupy your mind. Go back once a month and read your written thoughts, and think about them. <BR> I don't know the extent of your past with your mother... I will tell you that even with the amount of abuse that I lived with (and, yes, it was horrendous at times) I still managed to forgive my mom and live for the future.<BR> Sorry if this seems rambling, it is late here. Email me if you would like to talk privately... gerrigrande.yahoo.com .<BR> Take care,<BR> Mynabird

Sheba:<P>Hi. I'm sorry to say, but I've been way ahead of you on that one, but the problem is that when I was younger, I used to write everything down that was happening to me, but I think my mom got ahold of them somehow. I knew she would because I had written them in English. I went back and wrote everything in shorthand because she doesn't know it so nobody would be able to read any of my thoughts. The problem is that I can't find any of those books, I think I might have accidently left them when I "left" her. I have been creating another diary that I've had as long as I've been with my H and all of anger and pain is in that one from our relationship, but I don't think it has anything to do with my mom (it's 26 pages long!).<P>I will try and start a new one just for my thoughts and stuff about her. Thanks for your suggestion! BTW, I don't think just writing it all down is going to stop me from confronting her, it's something I've always wanted to do since I was younger. I'm going to do it anyway, but at least with your suggestion I'll have more facts with me when I do it.<P>HurtButCoping:<P>I have tried looking into myself, but it's hard considering what I went thru and the things my mother said and what it is I'm "actually" looking at. I cannot tell the difference at this point..... <P>kam6318:<P>Hello to you too! <P>Mynabird:<P>Hello. I have been.....abused by my mother also, that's why I "left" her. I didn't want to run away only to be put back with her again. As someone told me today, my mother "stole my soul". I was also told today that she's done everything except kill me.......I'd rather not say too much more about it because if I do, I might go deleting stuff and I don't want to do that. At this point, I cannot talk to her about anything because she STILL tries to control me, she's very subtle with it. Maybe one day I'll forgive her.....when she stops calling me and my brother liars for what she did to us......I'm sorry, I'm just too angry at her right now.<P>I don't know if I can put it any clearer than this, but my mother almost destroyed me as a person. If I hadn't of left when I did, she would've made me a mindless puppet. I'm scared that what she did to me is ruining my marriage (she hates my H, BTW). She's said to my pastor that she hopes that me and my H break up. I only have one word to say to that, but I'll save it for her......<P>Thanks for your encouragement.<P><BR><P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/zbucketmouse" TARGET=_blank>http://www.geocities.com/zbucketmouse</A> is where my page is. Oh yeah, THANKS EVERYBODY FOR REPLIES!!!:) Very much appreciated!:)

Yuki,<P>Thanks for sharing this stuff...<P>Not that I'm being nosey but I know for a fact that honest sharing of pain is pain lessened...<P>Does your H know ALL the details of your abuse?<P>If you were to share it here I am quite certain you will find that you are not alone. In fact I venture to guess that you will will here alot of experience strength and hope from others that have walked through similar situations...<P>I have found that the anonymity here haqs been a great source of relief in that I can honestly share what is going on and not have to worry that my real world people will find out...<P>My main point is that holding all that resentment in will only eat you up insinde...<P><P>------------------<BR>Bill<P>May the roads rise to meet you,<BR>May the winds always be at your back,<BR>May the sun shine warm upon your face,<BR>The rains fall soft upon your fields,<BR>And until we meet again,<BR>May god hold you<BR>In the hollow of his hand.

c<p>[This message has been edited by WilliamJ (edited June 11, 2000).]

WilliamJ:<P>Hi. And no, my H doesn't know all the details of my abuse, he only knows some. I don't want to tell him anymore because it's none of his mother's business either and I know for a fact that the both of them talk about my business. What I don't need right now is her using my past as ammunition against me because she already knows what I told him so the both of them don't need to know anymore. You're not being nosy, ask whatever, I don't care.<P>I don't really want to share it here because it's a "marriage building" site, not a "mother abuse" site. I don't want to talk about something that has nothing to do with this site. <P>As far as the resentment goes, I'm going to confront my mother as my pastor told me I have to do. All the writing in the world doesn't make me feel better. I've been there, done that. My diary from being in this house alone is almost 30 pages long with all the anger and hurt that I have felt by being here. I wouldn't DARE show my H any of it because I tried that earlier on in our relationship and he got mad, just like my mother did. I don't need that right now. I don't need more people mad at me because of the way I feel.....doesn't help me any, it seems to make it worse. However, if there's anything you guys wanna know, go ahead and ask me, I don't care.<P>PS WilliamJ, I'm curious.......you said you were on the divorcing/divorced board now, but it seems like every time I post, you answer.....are you following me? It's ok, I don't mind, just curious......I won't whine either. <P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/zbucketmouse" TARGET=_blank>http://www.geocities.com/zbucketmouse</A> is where my page is. Oh yeah, THANKS EVERYBODY FOR REPLIES!!!:) Very much appreciated!:)

Yuki,<P>Glad you're still here and posting.<P>First, BIG CONGRATS on sticking to Plan A. As you Plan A your H and he notices more and more, he will likely begin to challenge his M when she says bad stuff about you. Hey, it will still take time so be patient.<P>As for MIL, I have little to share with you. We all know how you feel about her . I guess the old adage about it taking two to tango applies here. Avoid arguing with her. It will fuel her fire and be a LB to your H.<P>As for your M, all I can say is that I have switched from reading books about relationships (us) to reading books about individual health (me). I have read a most remarkable book called "Silent Sons" by Dr Robert J Ackerman. It was very weird to read a book written by a stranger and feel I was looking into a mirror. He has a companion book called "Perfect Daughters". You may want to check this one out.<P>My parents are gone so there's no way I can "confront" them. You can, but do so in a way that you are comfortable with and when you are comfortable doing so.<P>BTW: I'm 46 and my ways are changing mighty FAST!

Gonnatry:<P>Hi and thanks....but I really don't think I deserve it. As I said before, I don't know if I'm making up all this stuff or not.<P>As far as Plan A goes, I hear you, but I don't think my H will ever stick up to me as long as we're in this house. His mother has the ability to give him something I don't....whatever he wants. I cannot give him whatever he wants and he knows this, that's why he goes to her and asks her to buy him stuff. I don't really care about it anymore because I can't stop them (even though I tried). I look at it like this: as long as he's not using the money that's suppose to support all of us (me, my son, and him) then I don't care what he asks her for, it's no longer my problem.<P>As far as she goes, I have avoided arguing with her. That why when that incident with the carseat happened, I just asked her one question, got my son and went upstairs. I, however, made the mistake of opening the door when she came upstairs knocking on it and that's why the argument happened that day. That was my fault, but I managed to nip another on in the bud when I went downstairs and she wanted to talk again. Since that day, I haven't said anything to her and she continues to talk about me in front and behind my back in English and in Spanish. I pay her no more attention. I just leave the house or go upstairs. I only hang around downstairs when I'm starving to death or when nobody's here. I'm thinking about getting a microwave and putting it in the bathroom.... <P>I asked my H the other day if he was mad at me because me and her don't get along....he said no, but the tone of his voice said yes. I then asked him if he blamed me for me and her not getting along....he said no, but it felt like yes. I asked him what did I do wrong for me and her not to get along....he doesn't remember, but I'm sure there's lots he can think of when he's downstairs with her. I then asked him was there anything I should've done for me and her to get along......said he doesn't know because it seems like we'll never get along. He said he wishes that we could, but it seems as though we never are. I asked him asked him if he thought she ever did anything wrong to me.....he said the times when I would take my son upstairs to keep from arguing with her that she would follow me upstairs and continue the argument. I asked him what he was talking about because I only remembered doing this once (the carseat incident). He said there was other times I did this (I really do not remember doing it more than once, maybe he remembers something I don't?), he said there was at least two other times. I'm really puzzled right now because I don't know what he's talking about! I'm afraid that maybe he's mistaking his mother's actions for mine....although I NEVER followed her anywhere to start an argument. The only time I followed her was to apologize. Once she ran downstairs or walked away from me when I was in mid-sentence, that was the end of the argument for me.<P>I don't know if any of this makes sense to you because I can't even figure out what I'm thinking anymore. As far as what my H said yesterday (the above statements), I'm worried about it because I'm almost positive he's not telling me his real feeling about this situation. I do believe the fact that we don't get along bothers him more than he's telling, that's why I asked him about it yesterday........<P>Good grief! I definitely am talking too much! Sorry for taking up so much space! Forgive me....<BR><P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/zbucketmouse" TARGET=_blank>http://www.geocities.com/zbucketmouse</A> is where my page is. Oh yeah, THANKS EVERYBODY FOR REPLIES!!!:) Very much appreciated!:)

Yuki,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>PS WilliamJ, I'm curious.......you said you were on the divorcing/divorced board now, but it seems like every time I post, you answer.....are you following me? It's ok, I don't mind, just curious......I won't whine either.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ...<BR>LOL<P>I am following you...LOL<P>Your pain has me wondering and hoping I may be able to share some of my experience with you. Pain is the one thing we have in common.<BR>When I was really hurting I looked for people to grab onto so I could get through it. This is my way of giving back what was freely gien to me. I can only keep what I have by giving it away.<P>As far as this being a marriage builders site not a mothers site, one cannot build their marriage while being in the control or having a mother try to control them. Also this is a relationship building tool. These principles can be applied to ALL relationships.<P>Our childhood issues are the core to how we relate to others as adults. You have a huge trust issue, as well you should. My question is what are the common threads between your M, MIL, and H. I am certain there is a similarity that attracted you to them. We tend to drift towards what is familiar, ergo sum H and MIL have treated you similarly to your M.<P>My understanding comes the fact that I am are recovering drug addict that has spent four years working the 12 steps of Narcotics Anonymous. In doing so I have learned a great deal about human nature from my sponsor and from the guys I sponsor.<P>Does your M, MIL, or H abuse drugs or alcohol?<BR>Do you?<P>If so this will go a long way in finding solutions to your dilema. If not then keep searching for answers.<P><BR>Be very careful telling your M your resentments they well may blow up in your face. Expressing them doesn't always get rid of them often it creates more. When you confront your M be ready for her to minimise them and invaldate them. Tell her and expect her not to repent or appologise. It is for you to get out not for her to see how you feel.<P><BR>One other thing in order for you and H to have real intimacy you will have to get completely honest with him by telling him the exact nature of your history and likewise he should do the same. Hell if he's going to tell his mom why not just have a get honest session with both of them. Doing that may bring you and his mom closer.<P>But who am I to tell you what to do...these are just some thoughts I have...Mull them over and talk to others see what they say.<P>I also vist the recovery board to...LOLLOL<P>Keep moving forward...<BR>And I'm glad to hear you won't whine <P> <P>------------------<BR>Bill<P>May the roads rise to meet you,<BR>May the winds always be at your back,<BR>May the sun shine warm upon your face,<BR>The rains fall soft upon your fields,<BR>And until we meet again,<BR>May god hold you<BR>In the hollow of his hand.<p>[This message has been edited by WilliamJ (edited June 11, 2000).]

WilliamJ:<P>Hi there and thanks for helping me....I think. I confronted my mother at church some and it was mostly like you said, she was trying to deny what happened or she'd shift the blame to someone else. I did manage to find out the reason why she kept me from going to college.....it's because she didn't have that chance growing up and so she felt I didn't need to go either. I don't feel all that much better....I'm real tired right now. I don't think she's sorry for what she's done. I can't easily forgive her for what she's done because she ALMOST destroyed me as a person. She's STILL trying to control me after all this time. She wants my marriage to fail because she doesn't like my H. She wants me to be miserable just like her......it makes me all VERY sick. I couldn't stand to look at her sometimes. I wish my brother was there......anyway, I can't talk right now, you'll see why in my next thread....<P>Bye bye for now......<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/zbucketmouse" TARGET=_blank>http://www.geocities.com/zbucketmouse</A> is where my page is. Oh yeah, THANKS EVERYBODY FOR REPLIES!!!:) Very much appreciated!:)