Geez, I knew there was a thread I was forgetting the past couple days...and it was mine!!!! DUH!!!!<P>Sorry for taking so long....I get so caught up in posts and then run out of time (and memory, apparently!!) LOL!!<P>Thank you all for being so wise and caring....I truly do not know where I would be with this craziness if it weren't for you folks....<P>On to individual's......<P>Hi WS - Don't worry - I remember what you told me!!! WE still have a "roommate" conversation to continue!!<P>I vote for the convent also, especially if they have benefits!!!! LOL!!!<P>Hi Chris - Yep, crackpipes all around, eh?<P>Hi NoTrust - He's got you confused too, huh? He is one whacked out guy, that's for sure!!! Thanks for the compliments, but it is easy to be patient without it in my face everyday like it used to be.<BR>I think he still loves me, too!! Just too bad that he has this notion of "in love" being true love and happiness!!!<P>FHL - I always can count on you to get a point across to my brain!!! I see what you are saying now....probably very true!!! He definitely does not want any responsibilities and commitments (might even not be with OW anymore..tee-hee!!).<P>He has completely been engulfed by this cop "phase" of his life....nothing and noone is penetrating it. I am fine for when he needs an outside touch, otherwise.....it's get lost!!!<P>Is there really anything that I can do about it though? I mean I know that I can either tell him to get lost (which you know is not in me!!) and wouldn't really accomplish anything...or I can somehow show him that other guys don't want me to "get lost"!! How would I do that however....we never run into each other....he speaks with noone who would know what I am up too....and besides that - how can I possibly use some poor guy to do that?<P>So is there really anything to do? <P>I reason that even if all you say is true, it is his problem. A deficit that HE needs to overcome for himself, not something that I can cause him to fix. I mean what would him being jealous really accomplish....I think it would be temporary at best - NO?<P>I don't know....why can't I just have a "normal infidel" who wants more attention or something!!!! I could do that!!!!<P>Please, don't be in awe of me....good grief!!!! And about the "good" cake - can I be chocolate with chocolate frosting? That's my favorite!!! At least I will be happy about being a cake if it's one I like!!! LOL!!! (H LOVES Carrot cake!!!) Blech!!!<P>Hi TNT - I am so glad you came by and shared your story with me!!! Quite a bit of insight!!! Thanks.....<BR>I do have a theoretical question for you about it though. Do you think that if you waited it out (meaning didn't find another love) that your first H would have addressed whatever issues he had to deal with? Obviously his being on marriage #? and not too thrilled with it either shows that he hasn't done too much to work on himself. Do you think that would be different if you two had gotten back together?<P>I realize that is a difficult question to answer, but if you have a gut feeling about it I would love to hear it.<P>Thanks for your support on how I am doing....I know that the love is there on both sides. It is just a question of how, when and what will eventually come from it!!!<P>Thanks for the insurance info also. I will look into it....although it is very doubtful that H would agree to pay anything......<P>You are welcome for your card!! I really am soooooo happy that you guys are getting out of dysfunctionville!!!<BR>You deserve it and life will be such a wonderful thing there.<P>You made me cry with the link you found for us....thank you!!!! I don't deserve such kindness, there are others so much more together than I am!!!! You are definitely one of them. And my FHL is certainly another!!!<P>What are the odds of so many "one in a millions" meeting on the internet? We have certainly beaten those odds, huh?<P>I love you two.....you both know that, right?<P>BTW - Happy Belated Birthday TNT!!!<P>Hi Medic - How come I was not one bit surprised that you knew how to spell jaccuzzi? LOL!!!! <P>You are right that so much of what they say is similar....also that there is always hope!!!! Not always sure what I hope for, but there is hope just the same!!!!<P>Keep up the baby steps with Val...you two will make it!!!!<P>Hi Lor - So, you just shake your head too, huh? With all this shaking, we should have nice slender necks!!!! LOL!<P>Thanks for your insights about your situation....they help me to retain my determination!!! <P>You know that I pray for you and Guard in my dailies.....I am sure that your both on the right track to things now. It's slow going perhaps....but great things are always worth the time and troubles we go through. <P>I actually laughed at the "peer pressure" thing myself!!! Of course that was after I had a go around with my punching bag!!!! LOL!!! <P>Hi NB - Thanks for coming by for me!! It means alot!!! You know how sorry I am that you and David are off track with each other.....I only wish there was more I could have done......<P>I love you both and wish each of you the best.....always!!!!<P>BIG HUGS to everyone,<P>Sheba<P>

Hmmm, I read the posts and feel at least that my crazyness isn't nearly as crazy as it seems....... I'll always wonder how our husbands can play both sides of the fence without going insane and make you think its just fine and dandy to do so........ <P>Any man who can be gone with another for weeks and then come home to visit entering the house with a big hug and a "you'll always be special to me"........ They've wacked their doodle all right....... LOL<P>Be good to yourselves, Someone has too. <P>cozy

I don't know.<P>I don't think there is much you can do because all your points are valid.<P>I guess it is up to you to know how you will live your own life. I know you hold your marriage sacred...and that a D will not automatically change that for you. However, is it your intention to never become involved with another man again the rest of your life?<P>If that is your conviction, then you have a whole lot of waiting to do and you may or may not see results.<P>Not that when the ink is dry on the papers you would go trolling, but if somewhere way down the road, you know, past the bend you can't see...you think you may be open to another relationship, then maybe you could try talking to your H.<P>What if you approached him something like. Whack-a-Doodle...I've been thinking about how you said even after the D, I would still be like your wife. You know I can't imagine not feeling like you are my H.<P>I know, W-a-D, that you feel you must be free of our legal marriage right now.<P>I needed to explain something. I loved what we had together when we first were married. Although I can't imagine feeling that with another person, it makes me sad to think I will live the rest of my life without that kind of relationship again. Someday, maybe not anytime soon, someone might come into my life. If that ever happens, I just need you to know I might need to follow where that new love needs, because I miss what we had and I would really like to share my life with someone rather than grow old alone.<P>If that does happen, dear W-a-D....I could no longer consider you my H. I know this all sounds silly, but I didn't want to leave you with false expectations. You know I love you too much for that. If I ever find a love to spend the rest of my life with, I'll have to release you from my heart. I couldn't live with myself if I led you on and hurt you. I never want to hurt you, you know that, so I just had to get this out in the open. So after the D, I guess nothing really changes for us for now...but I can't promise it will always be like this.<P>What do you think....wayyyy to deep?<P>Thanks for the kind words....<p>[This message has been edited by FaithHopeLove (edited June 11, 2000).]

Hi Sheba<P>Was hacking and coughing so bad tonight that it was a lovebuster - so I had to get up so H could sleep. He has a big day tomorrow.<P>hmmm... My X. Well, I really think he and I would have gotten back together if I didn't give up. But it had been almost 2 years, and I was tired of playing 2nd fiddle to OW - and didn't know the MB principles then. But, what would have happened if I didn't give up... We would have gotten back together. I think he might have gone to counseling, it is possible - but I don't know if it would have been effective. <P>He had suffered a lot of trauma from an unstable mother growing up - and conflict avoidance was her style - to the point that she stole her 3 children from her first husband when my X was in kindergarten. He did not have contact with his father until he was 16. She also made the children assume a phony last name. She was real creative - she picked "Jones". ha ha. but really, it isn't funny. It is really sad.<P>I remember going out with X Jones for 3 years, and then when he graduated I received his announcement with his real name on it. Boy was I confused. <P>So, he had some real issues that went way beyond our relationship. To tell you the truth, even after all the crap he put me through, I feel very very sad for him. I really do. Ever heard that saying "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do?" Well, I guess I've always been an INFP, and my need to fix - simply kept me attached to him much longer than what was healthy for me. <P>The divorce did cause a lot of pain and sadness for me - I don't think I ever loved that deeply - and it was very hard to give up on him. So, knowing a little about your husband's family - I can understand what kind of deep confusion he lives with daily - and I also understand how you can be so resolved to wait it out. <P>I always thought my first husband would change when he became a Christian. I took my children to Sunday School, was very active in the church, and also we sent our children to Christian Day School. It was the year he met OW that he became a Christian. I finally left our family church so that my husband would continue to attend. He did. He even brought OW to our family church, and it hurt my feelings a lot. Our pastor married OW and H. That really hurt. And my X husband wore the matching wedding ring that we bought just before we split up. He still wears it to this day.<P>His family are now very (almost conspicuously) friendly to me. My current husband doesn't appreciate their want to stay in contact. I still get telephone calls (long distance) and invitations, and now emails from his family. I really don't get it, since the family would lie for my X while he was cheating with OW. Weird.<P>Well, that was long - I don't know if I answered your question. I think my X still has hope - he keeps marrying Christian women, and then he cheats on them. Maybe he just hasn't really asked for healing in this area of his life, I don't know. I do still pray for him, and a couple of years ago he got involved in Promise Keepers - which I thought would be great for my kids. But, then he met another OW and now has another W, and kids are really disgusted with their father's infidelity problems. Oh well, sorry this was too long.<P>

Hi U2BC - Thanks for coming by, it's good to see you!!! Glad that you see things aren't just nuts in your situation....we will someday understand this!!!! They've all whacked something, allright!!! LOL!!!<P>You be good to yourself too!!!<P>Hi FHL - Is it my intention never to become involved with a man again? <P>No - I have no "intentions" at this point.....When I think on a future relationship - my thoughts come down to this: If it's gonna happen....it will happen!!!!<P>Right now I am truly enjoying this time alone...I am rediscovering things about myself and discovering some new things.<BR>I think that I am at a "peaceful" place with ME!! Although life is not yet "peaceful" with the divorce looming and the financial garbage....I FEEL much calmer overall.<P>I know that I won't choose the societal "active" of persuing men in bars and such....that is not my thing!!! I meet men all the time anyway so that would not inhibit a social life. Did you catch my "latino night" out on Deb's thread? LOL!!!<P>I am not interested now...darn shame too - being that I could be living in Aruba!!!! LOL!!!<P>I am not someone who "needs" a man in my life constantly....never was. <P>Don't get me wrong....I would like a partner again, but I am not even divorced yet, let alone ready to start some search!!! I will meet someone where, when I least expect it...just like I did with H......<P>If that is what is meant for me!!!!<P>So, I pretty much don't think about that end of things....<P>I love my H.....you know that. I do recognize that loving someone is very different from having them to love you back!!! Yes, I do need to be loved back!! I would like it to be him, but will not "pine" for it if you know what I mean......<P>I understand who he is right now and what he does or does not offer. I might not like it.....but I don't base my existance on it. Does that make sense?<P>The letter you wrote.....yeah, way too deep for his brain now. Perhaps at some point I would have to take a stand or something, but for now it is all lip service about what will be anyway so it's not really an issue!!!<P>He isn't really talking at the moment cuz he said no to my proposal....my guess is that he knows it was wrong (and stupid with the reason he gave!!) and will pull his usual silence till the guilt passes..... <P>My main focus when I do think of my marriage or him right now is the moral and value end of things....I feel like I am being made a victim of extortion or something....this legal system is really getting to me!!!<P>I looked up the legal definition of marriage and requirements, etc....it said that "when TWO people consent to ..<BR>......" - what I want to know is why then is that marriage "ended" when only ONE consents? At the very least there should be mandatory counseling to get both parties to consent......<P>Anyway, that's my thoughts now.....I don't want this to end without growth on both sides!!!! Ah, to just get him to Retrovaille for a weekend!!! Not even for the marriage.....but for himself!!!<P>So, do you think that I am somewhat healthy? Even a little?<P>Hi TNT - Thank you so much for relaying your story to me....it helps more than you could imagine.<P>What similarities eh? I really do believe that until they deal with this issues (or even acknowledge that those issues play a part in thier messes) they will keep searching for some invisible "happiness" to ease this restlessness they have......<P>So sad.......Why do they have to be so thick about getting help to do that?<P>I guess God has a path for them.....just wish I knew for sure if I am supposed to stay on it or not!!!!<P>Time will tell, I suppose!!!!<P>Love and HUGS<P>Sheba

Hi Sheba,<P>I feel as if I've come full circle, and I am somewhere in a similar place to what you are describing.<P>My h chose to come clean and break it off with his OW, so we moved right into "recovery". But if this means we are both pulling together in the same direction, we have not started yet.<P>He won a trip for his sales efforts and we took the first vacation w/out kids in six years. It went so much better than I had hoped that I thought we were well on our way (to where, though?)<P>After we came back he took a trip to OW land for business and came back cold and reserved. I was in shock, again. At the same time the engagement ring I've been wearing (I can't wear the wedding ring, I don't feel it's true) went missing from our hotel room (theft, the kids, who knows?). I felt I was trying to accomplish the impossible and the stress I feel trickles down to the little guys. <P>And today, he finally said many of the things I've been wanting to hear for so long. That he was so sorry for what he had done, that he wanted our marriage. I would have been overjoyed to hear this a few months or even weeks ago. Now I feel sort of numb, that he will never stop feeling restless and wanting every woman he sees.<P>I have seen some results from the Harley needs meeting, but I feel there is something much more going on here. Yes, he too used to just live for his job. Now he's not sure which way to go. I feel I'm still spinning. In addition to really looking at the end of the road for us and losing the ring, we signed for a condo that will be completed in two years. By then, we will know whether or not we can afford it. Oh well...<P>FHL and TNT, it's good to hear from you guys too.<P>Sorry it was long, any thoughts???<P>------------------<BR>Cindy

sheba, the thing I know about you..it that you are some place way ahead of many of us....<P>You know that all of this s*** doesn't matter...what matters is being true to you..or what I would try to tell my kids is important is ..do the right thing..<P>I find myself going round and round with this thing...amazed at how this really smart man I married ended up being not really so smart after all, and me...sort of not so smart, managed to see the silver lining of the cloud...<P>Not that that helps everyday...<P>But Sheba, you are truly inspirational...we are all growing despite the fact that we have been whacked on the backside of the head. <P>I think it is so wonderful that you can rise above it all with your H's behavior. I can accept that this is his "party" but I have to shield myself from some of the blatant disrespect. I do not think I am better, I just feel really insulted... (I live in a very small town, where everyone I know knows what is going on..and is disgusted....but I feel foolish because I have spent so much time proclaiming how wonderful my H is/was)