I screwed up, pretty bad, and had an affair late last year. I haven't contacted the other woman since then, and my wife knows all. I've been pretty dense, making my wife do all the work to win me back.<P>Now she says she's tired of trying so hard, tired of reading the books, seeking the advice. She says she's staying with me because at this point there are no other alternatives. She says I haven't been fulfilling her emotional needs at all.<P>It's true, I haven't, and now I'm scared I'll lose her. I'm not a book reader, and all the "counseling" (for years) we've gotten has been pretty worthless. And I guess I'm pretty slow, because she says she keeps telling me what she wants, and I'm just not doing it.<P>I think I've been really supportive of her, given her everything she's ever needed/wanted, and I've done it for years. She had some sexual trauma when she was young, but I don't understnd how that could affect our relationship because I'm not the one that did it. She has been pretty frigid ever since we got married. Lately, since she discovered my affair, she's become much more sexual, and done lots to change and fill my emotional needs. Actually, she did that before the affair, I was just too angry to notice it. Too little, too late was my attitude.<P>So now, she's too angry to forgive me, and I've put the affair behind me and ready to go ahead and have a normal, loving relationship. She just can't seem to get over things and move on herself.<P>What am I not understanding? I really want to know.

Hi Dimwit,<P>Love the name. Yep, you've got some work to do. NSR (Jim) will be here to point you in the right direction, which is reading a lot of infomation you will NEED to get your self going in the right direction.<P>It seems like your heart is in the right place, but your head needs to catch up. You filled all of her needs for years, but had an affair? She was sexually abused and you don't see how it could affect her relationship with you because you didn't do it? Okay dimwit, don't mean to be rude here, but READ A BOOK. She sounds like she's trying, even opening up sexually which must be tough as heck with what she's gone through.<P>Have you asked, begged for forgiveness, have you found out what her emotional needs are and tried to fill them? Like your affair, your wife needs to get this straight on her time schedule, not because you are now ready to settle down and have a normal, loving relationship.<P>Sorry your first answer seems to be hard. I tend to be a little tough on betrayers, but there are tons of betrayers here that we know and love and will also help you. Read what you can here, and keep an open mind and learn.<P>Hang in there with us. It's an invaluable thing you're getting here. BTW, has your wife seen MB? I bet it would help her too.<P>allison

Welcome <B>dimwit</B>...<P>(allison knows I hang around!)<P>I have a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P><B>About your post</B>...<P>Look...<BR>...you want to ge serious?...<BR>...then you're going to have to do some reading...<P>Do start on my <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>Welcome</A> post!<P>Once you've really got the basic concepts...<BR>...if you need that push that so many men need...I would recommend that you have a couple of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7200_phone.html" TARGET=_blank>telephone counseling sessions</A> (~$95US a pop... but well worth it) with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7010_about.html" TARGET=_blank>Steven W. Harley</A> or Jennifer Harley. Check out the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counseling Center</A>... and for some specifics... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7015_fee.html" TARGET=_blank>Fees for Counseling Services</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html" TARGET=_blank>Scheduling an Appointment</A> (888-639-1639)!<P>Either you read...<BR>... or be willing to pay $20,000+ for a divorce....<BR><B>Is this a hard choice?</B><P>Reading doesn't emasculate you...<BR>...it is a gift to your wife that is priceless.<P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A>... is not a hard read! Honestly!!!<P>I've thought many times... we need to gang up on the Hareley's (no offense intended here)... but Dr. Harley... when are your books going to be put on audio or video tape???<P>If you want to read online... again... start on my <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>Welcome</A> post!<P>I'm praying for you...<BR>...to get moving with you! <P> <P>Jim

My wife is the one who found MB and has been implimenting it since before she discovered my affair. She just recently said she's going to stay off for while because she feels too disheartened and depressed at my lack of progress. We did the EN list, but only shared a few of the needs, the top 2 or 3. After that, I just haven't gotten my act together to initiate the things she wants to do, nor have I initiated sex very often. She's just quit initiating all together now. I guess I was waiting to see if she was really committed to changing.<P>The one thing she can't seem to do for me is fulfill my need for an attractive spouse. She's pretty big, and has had issues with her own self-esteem, I guess, because she hasn't done very much to make herself look very nice. And she's been trying for years to lose weight, but I've only watched her get fatter and fatter. I really tried to be supportive, payed for all sorts of diet programs, gym memberships, diet food. I've said some really mean things to her about her appearance too, things I truely wish I could take back. I have a bad habit of saying all the wrong things at the wrong times.<P>Still, she did manage to lose some weight a few years ago, and has kept it off. She still has a long way to go, though. She keeps trying, with God's help, she says. My wife's a very spiritual woman, and very close to God. I admire her for that. She says she gives God all the credit for the changes in her. I wish I knew how to tap into that.<P>Today I've been kissing her more and saying how nice she looks, and telling her what things I value about her. She seems to have warmed up to me a little.

Friend...<P>...procrastination will be your undoing...<P>Look for my latest <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/003682.html" TARGET=_blank>Inspire (35)</A> post later this morning...<P>I'm dedicating it to you... <BR>...so many other can benefit by it too... <P> <P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited June 26, 2000).]

Dimwit,<P>I'm going to shoot straight with you. It seems to me that is what you need at this point.<P>You had an affair, that hurts your wife. It hurts in ways you can't even imagine. It destroys any self esteem you ever had.<P>You say she has self-esteem issues because of her weight, and you seem to have issues with her weight too. Instead of focusing on what she weighs, why not try this, everday, and I do mean everyday, find something to compliment her on. Her eyes, her hair, her skin, the way she looks in a certian out fit. <P>I heard a story once of a man who married a woman who was considered ugly, they were from an area where a bride price was paid before marriage. The asking price for this woman was one cow, only one. The man who married her gave 100 cows for her. People said he was a fool. <P>The couple left for their honeymoon trip. All the time they were gone the man treated his wife as if she were the most wonderful, beautiful, speciasl woman in the world.<P> When they returned people were shocked, the man was with a beautiful woman, everyone wanted to know where the ugly wife was. <P>It was explained to them that the beautiful wife was that woman. The man told them that if he had paid only one cow for her, and if he had treated her like a woman of little worth, that he would only have had a wife worth one cow, but because he treated her like a woman of great worth that is what she became.<P>You can make a huge difference in how your wife feels about herself, just by showering her with love. Don't mention weight to her at all, treat her as you would if she were the weight you would like her to be. It will make her feel better about herself, and that will start to show.<P>On to the abuse she suffered. I went through that as a child myself, and I can tell you it has affected my relationships with men. And yes, it has affected my sexual responces with my husband. He didn't do it, he wasn't there. But I was there, the memorys live on.<BR>I have had to tell my husband to stop right in the middle of making love and go throw up. <P>You need to let her know you want her, that you desire her, but not make herfeel guilty if she doesn't respond as quickly as you want her to, or if she says no. Try lots of holding, of talking softly to her. Touch her and kiss her at times when sex isn't what you want. And not just for a day or a week or a month. All the time everyday.<P>Remember what says I love you to you, may not be what says it to her. <P>You admit she has tried and now she's tired, it's your turn to try. And to keep trying after she starts trying again. That is where I see problems with my own marriage, I try until I just can't do it anymore, THEN my h wants to try. What we need to do is try at the same time. <P>------------------<BR>Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<BR>In memory of a dear friend WallyM7 <A HREF="http://=http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp" TARGET=_blank>http://=http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp</A> <P>HepatitisC, educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://=http://hepatitis-central.com/" TARGET=_blank>=http://hepatitis-central.com/</A> <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Bozos_ Deb (edited June 26, 2000).]

Well, at least you say you want to work on it but, remember, your actions speak louder than your words.<P>You say you've been to the counselor - maybe you went but did you work. My x, who had an EA though not a PA, went. And he said the words "I want to work on it" but he never did. He never got a mirror. He couldn't look at himself and see that he had a role in the destruction of our marriage. Abig roll!!! <P>You can show up in the office. That's easy. But can you get down in the dirt and wrestle with the fact that you have some things to work on? That's painful. And it has to be done.<P>If you take your car to the repair shop because it won't run, you have the expectation that the mechanic can help. But if all the mechanic has are broken parts, you're wasting your time and money. Until you, and your wife, are willing to wrestle with your personal issues - separately - you can't do high quality work on your marriage.<P>As for your wife's weight - remember that the gift is more important than the wrapping. Concerning her weight, there are realistic and unrealistic expectations. Do you know that most food addicts were sexually abused as children? You can live without drugs, alcohol, and tobacco but you can't live without food.<P>Perhaps a dose of 12 stepping might be in order. I might recommend Overeaters Anonymous. I also might recommend Sexaholics Anonymous and S-Anon which are like AA and Al-Anon. Your therapists might be able to help you with local groups.<P>And as for the sexual abuse your wife was subjected to - of course it affects your relationship. It's a trust issue. (I was date raped at the age of 20 and was stupid enough to marry him. This was midway through a 3 yr. courtship before the marriage. We were married for 17 years. He became sexually anorexic - was it how he felt about me or about himself? I don't know. I now think it was as much about him.<BR>Now, I'm dating another man. But, I'm scared about the physical issues looming on the horizon. I was hurt once by someone's sexual misbehavior. How do I know this guy's any different?) First she was assaulted and now she's been betrayed. She may never have gotten the emotional support she needed. Now she has years of scarring concerning the issue. <P>I hope and pray that you two can work it out. It can be done if you both work hard.

DW: You sound like someone I know personally. First of all sexual trauma isn't something you just get over. You learn to deal with it and live with it, but it takes some folks a hell of a long time depending on how fragile mentally they were/are at the time. I know I have been there. Second, your wife is talking, but you're not listening. That's ok because as you know men and women aren't always on the same wave length. My spouse thinks love is supporting me with material items like house, car, kids etc.. you know the drill. I think love is affection, listening, talking and the like. We are struggling now to try and come to some type of middle ground. My spouse and I have a shaky past and are trying our damnest to repave our road and make our future better. As with us, you will need to open your ears and eyes and listen to each other. Have her explain to you what her expectations are from you and you her. <BR>If she has forgiven you, then the time now is to heal each other. It will be tough, but well worth the effort if you both work at it. She obviously still loves you regardless of her reasoning for staying, but she's hurt. Again, the affair is something she can't just get over. It something she has to learn to deal with, live with and move on. It will take time. If you love her, hold her, kiss her face and tell her "things will be alright" you'll be there for her. Good luck!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We did the EN list, but only shared a few of the needs, the top 2 or 3. After that, I just haven't gotten my act together to initiate the things she wants to do, nor have I initiated sex very often. She's just quit initiating all together now. I guess I was waiting to see if she was really committed to changing.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You had an affair, and you're waiting to see if <B><I>she's</I></B> committed to changing? Did some paragraphs fall out of this computer? I can't find the part where you've identified what <I>her needs</I> are and what you're doing to fulfill those needs. And a description of your commitment to honor those needs over a period of time so that your W can reasonably expect some consistency -- I can't seem to find that either. <P>I've only read one of your posts, but I can't help but wonder how similar you might be to my H in some respects. My H is very intelligent and artistically talented, and f***** clueless about ordinary things. He too may think that he's been supportive of me and given me what I want. <P>My perspective:<BR>...his needs are always first<BR>...he doesn't really know what my needs are because he doesn't discuss my needs with me<BR>...so how can he possibly know what I want?<BR>...he doesn't<BR>...anything he does to "meet my needs" is sheer guesswork on his part<P>What prompts me to make this post is your comment about "sharing" just 2 or 3 of the ENs. The goal is not for her list to be the same as yours. The goal is for both of you to articulate what the emotional needs are. This gives you the tool of knowledge. Use the tools where they're needed. <P><BR>

Hey there, DW.<P>How is it going today? Did you find something to compliment your wife on? How do you feel?<P>You asked for advice, so here's mine. Keep in mind that it is free and you do get what you pay for! <P>I suggest, as have others, asking your wife what her most important needs are. The list in the books and on the site is good, but not 100% accurate for all people (I have a couple of them swapped, for example).<P>After you find out what would make her happy, try to do a couple of things on the list every day. Don't try to do the entire list. It won't happen and you'll both get frustrated. <P>The key, I think, is to consistently do this FOR A LONG TIME. I know that's not a popular answer, but I think it is an honest one. You didn't end up where you are overnight and you can't fix things overnight. I think that once your wife starts to see some consistent good action on your part she will warm up immensely.<P>Good luck to you. Hang in there and let us know how it's going. --HBC

Oh, I just have to say, love your wife. It shouldn't matter how much she weighs. Love is in the mind. It is spiritual. Get beyond the physical image and see what is inside. That is what you love. You love her. It's an emotional thing. You can love her and want to express your love no matter what size she is. Just look! Look at her inside!! She is there and the sensual loving comes from your spiritual unity. You need to see her as your connection. As your purpose. I don't care how much she weighs, if you train you thinking to look at her through her spirit, you will find that she is all you want. Believe me, her body has nothing to do with it. I have a great body. The other woman has an enormous butt. So what does that mean. My husband left me spiritually. He says he likes me thin (I became insecure about being thin). I guess he found some emotional need met with her and not me. That is what hurts.<P>Jane

<P>Hey Dimmy,<P>If your wife got the books, she probably got the tape! (His Need/Her Needs). I'm listening to it these past 2 days in my car, and gave my husband a copy for our anniversary (13 unlucky years today, yep.)<P>If yu're dyslexic, lISTEN TO THE TAPE.<P>Several times. Now, go click onto NSR's links, I think they are. <P>Also, the books are simply written. Nothing fancy. Anybody can read them. They are written so as not to confuse anyone. The principals are so simple, but not easy. You have to read the chapters a few times so that they sink in. They're not full of a lot of long fancy words. Most of us are dummies or dimwits when it comes to communicating about feelings. I feel like I'm trying to walk on my hands sometimes, and I'm a woman.<P>Don't lose heart. It's your turn to work hard. You can do it!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dimwit:<BR><B>I screwed up, pretty bad, and had an affair late last year. I haven't contacted the other woman since then, and my wife knows all. I've been pretty dense, making my wife do all the work to win me back.<P>Now she says she's tired of trying so hard, tired of reading the books, seeking the advice. She says she's staying with me because at this point there are no other alternatives. She says I haven't been fulfilling her emotional needs at all.<P>It's true, I haven't, and now I'm scared I'll lose her. I'm not a book reader, and all the "counseling" (for years) we've gotten has been pretty worthless. And I guess I'm pretty slow, because she says she keeps telling me what she wants, and I'm just not doing it.<P>I think I've been really supportive of her, given her everything she's ever needed/wanted, and I've done it for years. She had some sexual trauma when she was young, but I don't understnd how that could affect our relationship because I'm not the one that did it. She has been pretty frigid ever since we got married. Lately, since she discovered my affair, she's become much more sexual, and done lots to change and fill my emotional needs. Actually, she did that before the affair, I was just too angry to notice it. Too little, too late was my attitude.<P>So now, she's too angry to forgive me, and I've put the affair behind me and ready to go ahead and have a normal, loving relationship. She just can't seem to get over things and move on herself.<P>What am I not understanding? I really want to know.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess