My H and I had another really good heart-to-heart talk last night. It was mostly me talking about all the stuff that I've been struggling with and relating it to the situaion - my feelings about my marriage, my H, and the OM. <P>My H listened - ACTIVELY! He's actually getting very good at that! He comforted me when he saw that I needed it and I was able to make a few connections I hadn't made before. <P>I'm starting to understand why I miss the OM so much, why I got so attached to him. It had to do with all identity/feeling like I don't belong stuff. He was a kindred spirit (no, not a souldmate). He was someone who was enough like me that I finally felt as though I belonged. That was the root of the emotional connection I felt for him. That is why I miss him so much. Realizing that made me realize that if that was the reason I was clinging to him so tightly, that it's really just a symptom of the unhappiness I have felt with myself. And that if I left my marriage to be with him, I would still be unhappy with myself, because I haven't fixed any of the real problems. We would both have a ton of baggage to sort through.<P>I know this is stuff most you already knew. In my logical mind I knew it, too. But there were parts of me that were closed to it. Parts of me that simply could not comprehend it. It didn't matter how many times anyone told me that this was so, I might agree to it, but I didn't know it in my soul the way I do now.<P>I am very proud of my H for the way he is handling me being such a mess. I won't go so far as to say that I am feeling love for him, but I am starting to believe that it might be possible.<P>It's an odd thing, really, that digging down deep into the pain is what lets you rise above it. The deeper you dig, the higher you climb.

Hi TS,<P>Your post did my heart good. I won't even go into all of the reasons but I really enjoy seeing your progress. Keep up the good work.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Hi Truthseeker,<P>I am encouraged by your good news also! Happy for you - you are living up to your name Truth-seeker. <P>And (as the "good Book" says) "And you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free".<P>Wishing you continual progress! Thanks for sharing the good news! We've needed it around here lately.

TS,<BR>YAAAAAY, for you, too!!! <P>I'm glad we're all having these heart to heart talks! You are definitely moving in the right direction! It really does help to be honest, doesn't it?!<P>You are so right in what you were saying about why you were attached to OM. I totally understand that.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TruthSeeker:<BR><B>Realizing that made me realize that if that was the reason I was clinging to him so tightly, that it's really just a symptom of the unhappiness I have felt with myself. And that if I left my marriage to be with him, I would still be unhappy with myself, because I haven't fixed any of the real problems. We would both have a ton of baggage to sort through.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I could have written this quote myself! I know exactly what you mean. That's what I've been going through, too. I'm so glad we are coming to all of these realizations. Maybe that can allow us to do something about it. I now know that it's something that has to be fixed. That fulfillment within myself has to be taken care of, or I'll just wind up in the same place I was. <BR>That's something I have to work on myself, w/God's help. <P>I'm so happy for you, I wish you continued success! We're getting down that LONG road!!! <BR>

TS:<P>I haven't ever posted you before, but I read your postings, momma and sifted quite often, to understand what my husband is dealing with.<P>I have you say "HORRAY" for you and your husband!!!!!!! Keep up the great progress in your marriage.<P>BH

TS<P><BR>Way to go!!!!I love it....I wish you could expand on that feeling a be a spokes person for all in your situation. Hang on to it and hang on to the H.<P>Love and Prayers for You and Your family!!!<P>J W

TS!!!<P>Great post. I am delighted for you, and proud of you and your H.<P>Oh, and did I mention how delighted I am?<P> <P>Kathi<BR>

TS - <BR> <P>Good for you!<P>Lori

TruthSeeker,<P>You warmed my heart. <P>The snowball rolling downhill effect can work for good as well as for bad. I see a snowball getting bigger towards honesty in you and me as individuals and in many on the board this past week.<P>Knowing I played a small part in pushing that snowball makes all the time I spend here worth it, even when I sacrifice other things.<P>Boy, can I identify with the desire to belong, but I'll be posting my own update today before I leave on my trip. (6:00 a.m tomorrow, still have a 3 and 5 year old to pack for).<P>You are doing great, lady. And I believe you are well on your way to the happy marriage you asked about a couple of weeks ago.<P>Remember that laying the foundation is neither fun nor sexy, but absolutely necessary. Then the lovely building will begin to rise as if from nowhere.<P><P>------------------<BR>Cindy

Thanks for all the congrats and everything. It really feels good to know that so many people care.<P>I just wish these good moments lasted longer. I feel like I spend most of my time underwater swimming against the current. I come up for air for a moment every now and then. When I do I take a look around and realize that I'm a little further from where I started and then it's back underwater again and I feel like I can't breathe. The current pushes me back a little and it's all I can do to keep swimming. <P>I'm not even in a position where I'm trying to get an uncooperative partner to work on the marriage. I'm the uncooperative one. My H is wonderful. All my battles are against myself. <P>Sometimes I wonder why I keep doing this. Why do I keep trying? And why do I keep sliding back? <P>Why do I keep making life difficult for myself?<P>Why? Why? Why? <BR>

Only you know the answer, why? why? why?<P>Do you not feel worthy? <P>If that is the case, that is not true. You are worthy! Your mistakes are in the past. <P>And you are finding out that your husband is seeking to understand. That is a major human need, to be understood! <P>I think what is happening, is your husband is in his way trying to meet your emotional needs. If he keeps it up, you just might get all the way happy and soon. <P>But, your work on yourself - needs to include forgiveness for yourself.<P>Old Roma (gypsy) proverb I heard that I think has a lot of wisdom. (I know lots of gypsies and they are really neat people...) anyways: Don't look down at your feet, or behind you - keep your eyes looking forward.<P>Some of the Roma have the worst atrocities, from racism - and down right hate and prejudice. But, when you visit a Roma home, it is a very happy - warm and loving place. Because they do not live in the past. That doesn't mean that things don't hurt, but they have adopted in their culture something that helps them survive, despite all of the persecution. They look forward and forget the past.<P>You know, that is a biblical principle also.<P>So, forgive yourself, realize that you are a very very valuable person, and that you have a wonderful future - and it will be exciting to find out what your future holds!<P>I am so glad your husband is trying to meet your emotional needs. That is just wonderful!<P>TnT

Thanks, TnT.<P>I think you really hit it about not feeling worthy. I have always felt like an outsider looking in. Like I didn't deserve to be a part of whatever good thing was going on. There was something wrong with me (or at least that's what I let myself believe) and I didn't belong in the middle of things. I was an outlier.<P>To compensate, I became what my son calls an overachiever - always striving to do more and be better at my job, etc. Well, I finally achieved all of the successes that I thought would make me happy - great job, nice house in a beautiful neighborhood - and I feel empty. Now what?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>You are worthy! Your mistakes are in the past. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm afraid this goes deeper than guilt over the current situation. I'm dealing with it in counseling but it's a very slow process. And I just found out that my health insurance is only covering half of the appointments I have already had this year. the rest will be coming out of my own pocket. Good thing I have a well-paying job. I hope I can keep it. My productivity level has been about 30% since December.<P>Sometimes it makes me feel worse that my H is trying so hard. He is showing me how much he really loves me, but I don't feel the same way toward him. Again, there must be something wrong with me.<P>I do have a difficult time letting go of the past. I also worry way too much about the future. I need to figure out how to live in the present and let it carry me into the future without all the worrying and what if's.<P>I guess I need just a little more faith.<BR>

Truthseeker,<P>I used to struggle with much of the same things you are - proving my worth, needing to achieve in order to feel good about myself, etc.<P>There is an excellent book (I know you already have so many), but it is one of the best I've read dealing with these issues. It is called "The Search for Significance". It also has a workbook, etc. It is by someone whose last name (I think) is McGee. He started a minisry called Rapha, they have programs in some hospitals for addictions and other mental health issues. It is really excellent - I have been looking at it again lately. I read it about 6-7 years ago and it helped me greatly in dispelling the lies that I "have to achieve, perform, get other's approval, etc in order to feel good about myself and be worthy". Basically that is the issue - we are believing (and living by) lies and need to replace them with truth. The truth is (from this book): "I have great worth apart from my performance because it has been given to me by God and I am totally accepted and forgiven by Him." (Can't remember the exact wording, but it is a powerful statement). Replacing lies (first identifying them) with truth has really set me free. Now I can identify lies when I ask "do I need this in order to feel good about myself?" When the answer is "yes", I am usually believing some lie. <P>You feel you can't receive your husband's love, or return it. It is true that someone can show us great love, but we may be limited in receiving it because we don't "believe" it - we don't believe in our own worth, so we don't feel worthy of other's love either.<P>Think about it. I hate to suggest "read another book" - but this one is excellent and has helped me a great deal.

Sifted,<P>Thanks for the tip on the book. I just ordered it from Barnes & Noble. I'm a little leary because although I believe in God, I'm not one to read the Bible regularly or listen to gospel music. I have recognized a need for increase spirituality, though. I started attending church regularly for the first time since childhood in December when I started falling apart. It has helped. <P>So I'll approach this book with an open mind and give it a shot. <P>Thanks again.<BR>

I feel for you, TS. I know EXACTLY what you mean. Especially this comment you made:<P>"I'm not even in a position where I'm trying to get an uncooperative partner to work on the marriage. I'm the uncooperative one. My H is wonderful. All my battles are against myself." <P>That's what I've been battling all along, too. I don't know why we do this to ourselves! I just don't get it. Just when I think I'm over OM, then I start messing w/my own head. Why can't we accept all our H's have to offer and forget OM? Why do we take our H's for granted? These are questions I ask myself. <P>I don't know why we keep making life difficult for ourselves. I say "we", because I'm the same way. Sometimes I wonder if I'm the kind of person that always has to have conflict in my life. Not intentionally, but I know a lot of the time I bring it upon myself. I don't know why I do this, either.<P>I'm doing really well, right now, though. I hope this continues. I'm going to work as hard as I can to give my H as much as he gives me. I'm going to put all my energy into my marriage and kids, so that I don't have time to even worry about OM. <P>I'm thinking of you, TS!

Well, I hope the book is helpful. It is a Christian book.<P>Personally I don't see how we can feel the assuredness and security of who we are apart from God. Only God can give us unconditional love and only He can impart true worth to us. We humans are so needy we have a hard time giving it to each other (does anyone ever have really pure motives, even in love? Generally it is because we are getting something back - in the absence of that we flounder, the forum here proves that). For me, the worth I have from God is unshakeable - independent of anything I do/have/achieve. Realizing that enables me to accept myself and to encourage and love others. Love from others and in our relationships is important, it does affect us, but it doesn't take away our worth. We don't lose our value because of what others' think about us. <P>Well, anyway,I'm glad you are willing to stay open. You truly are "truth-seeker".

momma,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Sometimes I wonder if I'm the kind of person that always has to have conflict in my life. Not intentionally, but I know a lot of the time I bring it upon myself. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You are very lucky that you are recognizing this at such a young age. If I had recognized it and dealt with it 20 years ago, I'd be in a much better position today. <P>I think the key is to first recognize when it's happening. Then to start moving that point of recognition earlier in time until you start to recognize it early enough to not let it happen. Eventually, (I hope) I will be able to steer clear of it altogether. <P>There is a story I read about a crack in the sidewalk. I can't remember all the details, but it had to do with this sort of thing. About learning what your self-destructive patterns of behavior are and learning to avoid them one step at a time (just as you would learn to avoid tripping over a crack in the sidewalk).<P>It's so much easier said than done, though.<BR>

Hi TS,<P>Checking in between flights!<P>I too am finding now that I have to focus on myself and why I'm not happy. I've really felt like I'm somebody else watching "my" life from the outside. I have always been (what's the word?) leery of counselling. Afraid I'll be fed a bunch of psychobabble. But I'm trying to work through things that go way beyond my marriage and it is sooo hard doing it alone.<P>I too have been an overachiever, though I've somewhat relaxed about that now. I think I've been in "survival mode" the last few months. Now, when I come up for air, I'm not sure who I am.<P>Except that I feel I deserve to be loved as I am. I believe I'm a good person, and yet I feel sooo alone. During my grief and uncertainty when my h couldn't decide to stay or go, it came home to me again that there is noone and I mean noone I can turn to. My own mother did nothing past providing food and a roof over my head. She did not protect me from her abusive husband, or advise me growing up at all.<P>This hit me like a ton of bricks and I started crying while stuck on an oversold 5 hour flight. I feel like such an idiot.<BR>

Cindy,<P>You're checking in between flights! Wow, you're really addicted to this site!<P>Isn't it odd how things can just hit us out of the blue? Things often hit me like that when I'm driving. It's often triggered by a song on the radio. Sometimes, it's not triggered by anything obvious. The thought just comes to mind and I end up bawling my eyes out.<P>Have a great trip and don't feel like an idiot for having an emotional moment. We all have our moments. I think they're necessary sometimes. I just wish their timing was better.<P>Sifted,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>You feel you can't receive your husband's love, or return it. It is true that someone can show us great love, but we may be limited in receiving it because we don't "believe" it - we don't believe in our own worth, so we don't feel worthy of other's love either.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is so true. This reminded me of an Eagles song - "Desperado". The line that says "You better let somebody love you, before it's too late." I'm going to have to look up the lyrics to that one now.<P><BR>