I think a lot of us find it very hard to forgive the OP because they seem to not be remorseful or never apologised, even in some cases when they were actually a best friend or relative. So painful! From reading same beccas thread this got me thinking.....<BR>I was thinking rather than perhaps just think the obvious that they are not sorry at all, what might be behind their seemingly total lack of remorse? Can some people never face their mistakes? My H for one will never seek the H out and tell him he was sorry for the affair with his wife, yet I know he is VERY sorry. Is it too painful, too embarressing, too late, too frightening, combination of all these? <BR>Any thoughts from those who have been there?

I used to be so pi**ed off about that. My H was the least remorseful person in the world, and even now when he can say what he did was wrong, he still has no problem saying I caused it. But you know what? He also says that his reasons for not facing it had less to do with a lack of remorse and more to do with feeling guilt and pain for the hurt he's caused. I believe that if I am more understanding and less judgmental, I may be surprised by more revelations like this. I believe that if I keep waiting for him to feel bad and keep waiting for an apology, I am likely to get none. But if I am understanding and apologize for how I contributed to our break-up and listen to his hurt with an open heart, he will not only find the words to tell me he is sorry, but we will be able to forgive each other and the OP. <P>Ultimately, we are all human. We all make mistakes. Yes, I feel like most of the betrayeds do in that there are mistakes like forgetting to pay a traffic ticket or leaving the lights on when you go out, and then there are mistakes like destroying your family with your eyes wide open!<P>But we all have decisions to make. Either we are going to stick with our spouses or we're not. We don't get anywhere by being judgmental and unforgiving. Commit to healing and love and you will get healing and love.<P>Infidelity sucks, but do we want to continue living in a sucky world or do we want to live in happiness again? <P>The betrayeds have to make the same decision too. As long as they continue to be unrepentant, they can't experience real and lasting love either. <P>Outrage, withdrawal and venting are all normal, natural, and healthy responses to this horrible situation, but at some point we have to let go of that so we can get to healing.

Tears...good question. <BR>Let me respond this way to you.<P>I believe there is a difference between "sorrow" and "repentance". <P>Sorrow suggest being 'sorry' for all the problems and pain and mess that has taken place. It encompasses a lot of feelings and emotions...many of which...are not all that sincere or pure.<P>Repentance...on the other hand...is the result of the 'betrayer' actually seeing the depth of his sin...and litterally feeling the pain he has inflicted on others...and is so moved with remorse over his actions....that he is willing and ready to take any course of action to bring about healthy change.<P>Oddly....the bible teaches that it is God ...who "brings/leads" us to repentance. <P>I have shared in past here...that I can't "make" my heart 'repent'. I am very sorry for all the mess I have helped create...but I know I have yet to come to that place of "repentance" yet. Not sure why, but I just haven't.<P>In my case...my heart is overloaded with a ton of emotions and feelings these days. Fear, dread, defeat, sorrow, guilt, shame, ...and some very strong feelings for the OP which I don't think will go away over night. So all this...I believe makes genuine repentance a more challenging place to reach. But I know that I have to get there...with God's help. But I do believe it takes a bit of time. Give it some space. <P><BR>Hope this helps.

Tears, I am having a really hard time just understanding how two mature adults who have worked together and had such high esteem in the community could now act like two really irresponsible adolescents.<P>Of course my H has yet to say anything really, but I do have to tell you he thought he was saving a damsel in distress. She had been complaining about their marraige to my H who had been coming here and telling me all about it....(yes, I know, should have been a red flag---guess I thought because my H told me he loved me every day....he did)<P>Even I began to believe it.and would say "what is wrong with that man" (meaning Op's H)!!! <P>When Discovery hit (and this is an intense EA only with some physical ) he defended OP over me and over her H...... like a knight in shining armor.... after talking to Op's h i discovered he was much like me...in shock...had never heard of one single problem in their marraige...he had lost 20 lbs. and was believing every word she said re: H and her relationship. She told her H every detail....<P>At one point I told H he didn't even know Op's H...he was just hearing one side of the story...I told him it didn't matter what Op said...he was still her H and father of his children....<P>The damsel in distress seems to suddenly be able to let her H (the rat that he is) take care of her children...and even though she moved out she still maintains the "marraige" just in case things don't work out with my H. She also pines away for my H at her house and even her 12 y.o. son knows whats going on!!!!<P>My H now maintains they are just close coworkers who share some bond..ie. he is still nt giving her up to work on marraige (feels too good I guess)<P>I have a hard time believing that my H cannot comprehend how I might feel because OP has told others (my kids teachers) gleefully that he and I are getting a D. Or the office workers that have known me for longer than her...that he and I have had long term marital problems (none of which I know about yet!!!!)<P>Despite what needs we didn't meet for them...standing back objectively it seems impossible that a human being could blatantly treat another human being so inconciderately!!!! esp. when there are children involved. We live in a very small family town...this has not gone unnoticed. I would like to put my head in the sand, but can't.!!!!<P>My H's conscience is still not functioning. He will say that he can't talk to me, that what I say bugs him, but gets mad at me now that I won't talk to him.... it's like he just thinks he's going to have everything his way no matter what!!!<P>I don't predict OP in my case will ever feel remorse...she called herself the office wife in front of me...kind of a power move...you know the type..I just rolled my eyes...<P>She may think she has won something.....now!!!! but she is losing in the long run!!!!<P>And as for me, I'm taking one day at a time, learning about myself and my children....thinking my future...with or without H!!! <p>[This message has been edited by tootrusting (edited July 04, 2000).]