Brief history--H administers listservs for an organization. Saw something in an offlist message that made me suspicious. Discovered e-mails in December that were full of emotional content not quite directed at each other although there was lots of admiration (my H #1 EN)and general sexual fantasy talk. Confronted H. He didn't see this as a EA just as something fun. H agreed to cease contact primarily because of my physical and emotional reaction. We started counseling about two months later. No contact lasted for a while and then the offlist messages started again with stuff about the listserv and the organization. Then they moved to stuff about their lives, e.g., her relationship with her parents, trips, etc. He claims that it will never go where it had been originally and she is someone to bounce ideas off and share things about the organization. He finally admitted that the content of the original e-mails was inappropriate and wrong. <P>But the contact continues. He just sent her some computer software and will be calling her to teach her how to use it.<P>I feel like this continued contact will deepen the relationship between H and OW. I am trying not to LB by mentioning it a lot. Although I did break down the other day and told him that when I see the number of offlist messages from OW on his computer screen it's like a "knife turning in my heart." I'm trying to put this behind me and move forward with our marriage (we are in recovery--2 steps forward, 1 step back) but it's hard to do and hard to trust when OW is still in the picture.<P>Advice needed--how do I get through this and can I do anything to get him to stop contact with OW?<P>

hi emp,<P>I'm kind of new to this game but I do know this: Any relationship or activity that our spouse has and does not share is not good. If it was innocent then he would share that openly. I would continue to do plan A to the best of your ability and just let him know that his relationship with this person whether it's over the computer or not makes you very uncomfortable. <BR>We can't control our spouse only ourself. I am sorry that you have to go through this.<P>cleopatra

Hi Emp,<BR> Boy this sounds just like the way my H's EA started.Check my profile(click on the sunglasses) to get a bit of background.In Jan of 98 I found an e-mail my H had sent a woman,who lived 400 miles away,whom he met on a business trip.Same kind of content you describe,very sexually explicit. I flipped and reacted like this was an affair,to me it was. H apologized to the hilt ,told me it was someone he met in a chat room(we had just gotten a computer at home)said it was just a joke(some joke). He promised to never contact her again.He stopped talking in chat rooms in the evening at home so I thought everything was ok,afterall he told me he met her in a chat room. I was bothered by this for about 9 months.He watched me suffer dealing with it.All along his behavior became more emotionally abusive(mean and nasty comments,blamed me for everything and he withdrew from me,the kids and his family)I kept telling him he was depressed,he denied it. I also asked a number of times about an OP,told him I could sense something taking his attention away.He denied everything.<P>Then in Sept 99 he asked for a separation.Two weeks later I discovered his plans to go to meet this woman to make his EA a PA.Same woman from a year and a half earlier.No, he had not met her in a chat room,he had met her on a business trip six years earlier!!!!! She had looked him up several years afterward and they developed a "friendship" through e-mail,ICQ and the phone. Some friendship!!!!!Now he thought she was his "soulmate" and needed to decide if he still wanted to be married or not.<P>Long story short, we were able to work things out.With his willingness to cut off all contact with OW and go to counseling he rapidly recognized his affair for what it really was,a big fantasy.We are doing great.I have a changed man as my H now,so good things did come out of this mess.I sure wish we didn't have to go through THIS to get where we are now.My point is to be very alert.If your H insists this is nothing and refuses to give up the friendship,there is a reason why.He likes something this relationship is giving him a little too much.This is not good.I trusted my H completely and blindly,never thought in a million years that he would cheat. Big mistake on my part.This can happen to anyone.We are all vulnerable.<P>Admiration played a big part in my H's A. I never realized just how big his need for this was.Be careful Emp,try to get him to give this up now,in a non LBing way.I'd hate to see anyone suffer the pain I went through. Good luck and God bless.

Ditto to everything already posted here.<P>I would like to also add please don't stop trying to get through to your H. I remember feeling like I was pleading with my H and humbling myself to him with my feelings while he ignored me and walked all over me. Then later he said I never expressed how I felt. <P>Funny, he says I did the same to him.<P>So, don't let the lack of communication be your downfall. Let him know you need him, love him, and you can give him all the (whatever) this OW is giving him only in the flesh and for real! Don't let it blossom into a full blown PA before he wakes up and sees what he is doing. It doesn't have to get that bad.

Thanks for the good words and support. I am trying to do Plan A and so is he (with resistance) but it is hard to do when I am feeling so sad. How do I get across my feelings to him about this situation without LBing? I know I can't make him do something he doesn't want to do but I keep hoping there is some way I can make him see the error of his ways and the fact that he is deluding himsdelf.<P>P.S. I found his last phone bill and discovered 3 phone calls to OW lasting 5 minutes each. Phone calls were something he specifically promised he wouldn't do.

emp, <P>Don't worry about making him see the error of his ways. He probably already knows and beligerance(sp?) is his way of defending himself. Just plan A yourself do death and try to brush his negativity off. <BR> I feel that some times the phonecalls may take place and the affair could be dying a slow death. This can't be much fun for him anymore. I think my husband has had contact a few times, some I know about others I am sure I don't. You can't control him and don't make yourself crazy trying to. That's what i did to myself and it didn't feel very good. <BR> If he has said he wants to be with you and is trying to work things out, just continue with your part of the plan and he'll come around eventually. <P>sorry if I rambled, all this makes me feel sick.

Hi Emp,<BR> I must confess I am not as patient as Cleo,and Cleo,by the way, I agree that,"all this makes me feel sick". I would not be as patient because I have "seen" exactly where this covert kind of relationship can go.Just because I found my H's letter to this woman and thus "found out" did not make it any less fun for him,or her for that matter. In fact I suspect it probably heated up at that point as now OW knew, I knew SOMETHING was up and she had to work just that much harder.I think that is exactly what she did.<P>Emp, you say H is plan Aing,has he read the book SAA? My H read it and he's says it really opened his eyes to the nature and predictability of what he was doing. Before he read the book he says he thought he was feeling something "special",but when he read the book he says he could see he was falling into a trap.It helped him to sort out what he needed to do to make things right.<P>My greatest concern here would be the resistance you say you are getting in regards to H's willingness to plan A. That's a red flag for me.If a H is sincere and is trying to repair his beloved wife's feelings he goes out of his way, if there is really nothing going on between him and suspected OW. Beligerence is suspicious behavior.What is there to be defensive about? A spouse who is serious about no contact will do exactly that.<P>Maybe there is a way in which you could ask about the phone calls in a non Lb way. You could tell him that you are tryi g very hard to trust him and make the relationship the best it can be and that there has to be honesty to do that. Then tell him you saw the phone bill and the calls make you feel insecure and make you wonder if you need to continue to be unsure about the health of your marriage.Make it all about "you" and keep the focus off of him so maybe he'll feel less defensive. You might not get the entire truth,but their responsess and reactions are sometimes very "telling" in themselves.Do whatever you can to nip this "thing "in the bud.Good luck and prayers to you.Let us know how you are doing.

Hi emp,<P>Just a little side note here. My bringing up evidence to my H was a necessity at the time as I needed proof before he would confess, so I was glad I had the proof, but...hmmm, how do I explain this?<P>Ok, so you have found a lot of stuff. He does not need to know what you have there. My H changed his cell phone bills to come to his office, same for his charge card bills. By telling your H everything you find you may be cutting off your sources. I have a secret little locked file with copies of everything I'll ever need in it. If in fact we ever divorce I have him pretty much nailed. I know this sounds awful, but play your cards a little closer to your chest here. It feels kinda good really to do this for some reason. Kind of like, I have a secret and you don't need to know everything.<P>I know we're supposed to be completley honest and open here..it's the MB way. It took me a long time to learn not to freak out whenever I found something. I used to drive to his office with his cell phone bill and throw it on his desk, demanding an explanation. Well, duh, I really didn't need an explanation as I knew darn well what was going on. <P>Ok, I'm ranting again. Just be smart. Don't react...act.<P>And you guys, don't flame me for this. I have been a stay-at-home mom for 18 years, and will have nothing if we divorce. A little part of me knows that I can destroy him if I want to, and where it comes to $$$, I will get what I deserve one way or another if he asks for a divorce.<BR>