I get sick and tired of hearing, "her needs weren't met, that's why she had the affair." Yes, her need were not met, just like mine, but I did not have an affair. Nor, will I ever cheat. I think it's a lack of charactor on her part plus being one of the most self centered people on the earth. Does anyone else think this way? Why can't she take blame for her on actions instead of blaming everything and everyone else?<BR>

BigTex -<P>Hey, calm down! You sound exactly like my H. In my case, I felt like my H didn't care about how I felt so yes I acted stupid and had an affair. But here's how it all changes from wonderful to a living h***. I recently thought about how it was when we were just dating, I didn't even have a desire to look at another man. My H was the most handsome thing that walked the earth so why window shop? But, as I began to feel neglected, etc. someone else managed to do what he didn't do. It's just that simple.<P>I told a friend who just recently had a one-night stand with an ex (her H had several affairs we suspect and know of one) that if her H had done all the things that she wanted, it would have never happened. This doesn't lay all the blame on you, but that's how it starts - he/she didn't do , but OP did ... Now, it was her fault, just like mine for not running when it 1st happened. I actually avoided the OM for 2 weeks after we passed EA to PA. He wouldn't stop hounding me (I know it's lame, but it's true). Again, suddenly I was back at square one breaking my vows. I will admit that it's a lack of willpower & self-control, but she didn't intentionally mean to harm you. I know it's hard to believe but it is true.<P>I can guarantee you that if she could turn back the hands of time, she would wish that it never happened. I know I wish it everyday. <P>Hope this helps!<BR> <BR>Vee<P><p>[This message has been edited by Vee (edited July 06, 2000).]

BigTex, I feel your pain. I really do. I do agree with you to a point. I do believe it is a bit of a lack of character. My needs were not being met either, they are being met less than before now, and for me, one of my big needs will only be met if God grants me a miracle. I know this because my H has pretty much said, no way, no how to that one and it is the one that caused the conflict leading to his affair in the first place.<P>Can I say I would never have an A? I would like to think so, but then again, I never would have thought my H would and he did. Yes, I do think it is a lack of character and definitely a selfish thing to do. But, you must remember, these are moments in time. You can change, and she can change just like I can change and my H can change. I can work on accepting that that particular need in my life will never be met by my H. It is hard, and I have to admit I hate it. Life is full of choices though, and this is the one I am making. My H can become a stronger person. He can evaluate why he had that weakness of character and seek to remedy it. Like me, it is his choice. Now, if we both work on these areas, I believe that we can be happy together. The same is true for you and your W if you both believe it and work at it. Hey, no one said this would be easy.<P>Now, on the bright side for me, my H knows what he did was wrong. He never really blamed me at first. His was more of a "I'm doing this before you do" thing that came from totally out of the blue because I hadn't even considered divorce or an A. Those things were just not options for me. I was considering the more healthy an less painful option of counseling. My H has at least accepted that there was no excuse for him to have a PA. I don't know how he feels about the EA (which IMO is worse). You W will have to accept this at some point. Maybe it is too soon. For now, if you really want this marriage, you will have to start meeting her needs and following Plan A. It sucks that we have to make so much effort when we hurt so badly, but I promise you it does get easier. I am two months into discovery and 1 month into active healing. Things are easier for me now. It isn't difficult to show affection and I actually can have sex with my H without thinking of the two of them together. I didn't realize this until recently that the images had gone away.<P>Good luck to you. If you really want it, you can do it. I've been listening to Celine Dion's "That's the Way It Is" a lot lately. It almost sounds as if it is written especially for people in Plan A. Stay on the board for awhile. It will help. It's a great place to vent and much better than venting to you W. I will keep you in my prayers.

Hi BigTex<P>I can understand why you feel that way. I did in the beginning.<P>Instead try looking at youself you are being judemental by that I mean your looking to blame her for her behaviour. You are comparing her behaviour by some sort of ideal that you feel is desirable. You cannot change her feelings and behaviour, only yours. Try to accept that you are reacting to your feelings of the ideal partner everyone does not feel and think the way you do.<P>When you start to do this you may soon begin to see the difference in your own attitude. Your understanding will grow to to recognise that your W will do what she thinks is appropriate at the time especially if she is under pressure at the time. Try and accept that what seems appropiate to her may seem totally different to what we think is appropiate.<P>When you feel happy on the inside you project a happy attitude.<P>Keep venting here it saves you from kicking the cat when you are feeling angry. No offence to cat lovers.<P>timtam

I feel the way you do Tex - I was neglected for a very long time in our marriage - he kept promising things would get better and the situation was not permanant. I waited it out and never considered an affair - divorce once in a while, but I would never have an affair - it's not in my genetic makeup to hurt people I care for with that kind of betrayal. <P>He is extremely selfish and self centered. He is solely responsible for his actions - he is forty - fricken - years old - it's time he grows up.<P>I know from this site which NEEDS of mine he was not meeting - I still don't know what needs of his I was not meeting - he can't name any - he did this strictly out of selfishness and some internal sickness he has to deal with and face. <P>

It must be Texas......I feel EXACTLY the same way you do. I asked her this question."...if you were having problems, why didn't you just TALK TO ME???". Nothing but silence. It's been over a year, and I am STILL (patiently) waiting for the pain to fade.

Being from Texas as well, I would like to say it must be Texas, but I think it is a worldwide communication probalem. Like I said, up until recently, my H believe affairs and divorces were things that weren't to be considered. I felt that we both agreed that if there was a problem, you worked it out together. We even discussed this prior to marriage, so I was completely floored when he told me that no matter how much God hated divorce, he didn't believe that God wanted us to be unhappy. (I later heard this comment from the OW, and I now know that she was manipulating his hurting soul.)<P>My H has even admitted to me that he is selfish. It is like an alcoholic. Once they admit it, you can start doing something about it. Does your wife know who she is? Who she wants to be? From what you have said, it doesn't sound like it. Like others have said, it is up to you to change yourself. Perhaps by changing yourself, she will open up to you and you can help her become a better person.<P>Try looking at it as, "Her needs weren't met, that is what made her *vulnerable* to an affair." To be perfectly honest, with all the pain you are going through, have you not thought about meeting someone else and having a relationship with them? I know I have to fight those feelings. I want to flirt with every guy I meet just to see if they are attracted to me. I don't because I know that would lead to somewhere I don't want to be. As Dr. harley says, don't make friends with the opposite sex when there are problems in your marriage. It only leads to destruction. How right he is. Too bad, my H doesn't understand this. I hope one day he will and will understand why I have always been especially worried about his female friends friends that are not my friends as well. He has always been dismayed that I didn't trust him with these female friends. I always trusted him. I never trusted situations and OW. Now, I don't trust the situation, the OW, or him. What a shame.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by timtam:<BR><B> I mean your looking to blame her for her behaviour.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No disrespect intended, but who else is responsible for her behavior but her?<P>I think because of the information on this site, there may be a tendancy to try to sometimes "sugarcoat" things, try not to make others feel "guilty", but the truth of the matter is that we are all responsible for our own actions, we all are to blame for our own behavior, and that includes betrayers who didn't have their needs met.<BR>

...<p>[This message has been edited by Beerman2 (edited July 02, 2001).]

Hey BigTex,<P>You are 100%, absolutely right! AND....so are the rest of the people here.<P>It IS selfish and it IS a lack of character and it IS an excuse. However.....<P>Whether she admits it or not, does it really change anything? It would be great if my H (the same as your W) would admit it...in fact it would probably help him in his personal life to realize this, let alone our marriage, if he wanted to help restore it. But because of the very thing we are talking about, he won't admit it or see it.....and that's that. So I have to realize this and move on, even tho it feels like crap.<P>And I disagree that ANYONE could have an affair. I TOTALLY disagree with that (sorry Dr. Harley). I TOO have felt very vulnerable since my H walked out on me. I TOO didn't have my needs totally met. I TOO have male friends who would have been more than willing to lend a listening ear (or more). IN FACT...one of my old boyfriends (several thousand miles away) just out of the blue, started e-mailing me 2 months after my H left. He's married. He wasn't hitting on me, per se, but I felt the temptation to pour my heart out to him, which could have led to anything. BUT I DIDN'T!! I KNEW, KNEW, KNEW better!! And thank God I knew better and had the strength to cut it off. (I did it in a nice way and he too totally understood it. We haven't e-mailed since. Period.)<P>Divorce has never been an option for me and now it looks like I'm going to have to face it head on. I have so much internal conflict about that, it's driving me crazy. But there isn't anything I can do about it, so somehow I'm going to have to learn to deal with it and move on.<P>So to answer your question.....no, you aren't thick-headed in my opinion. Just don't end up blaming her for the demise of the marriage (NOT THE AFFAIR...that's all her doing) or you will end up just like her.<P>Hang in there....<BR>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>

Well I can't pass up a Texas thread. And this problem sure as heck has nothin' to do with Texas (we had the same problems in Oregon). My marriage doesn't have any affairs in it (unless tending the garden counts as an EA), but trust me we have our share of problems. <P>I spent many months feeling very intensely every day that my H doesn't care about me. I couldn't figure out which hurt more: his failure to meet my needs, or feeling that my needs never enter his mind for even a fleeting moment. (Remember, I'm describing feelings here, not necessarily facts) If he ever contemplates what my needs or wants are, he keeps the notion to himself. Any discussions of my needs take place within his own mind with himself. I became very unhappy, and I blamed everything on him. Of course, nothing was <I>his</I> fault. <P>Big Tex, your questions were very blunt, so I'll be blunt right back. How much of the blame are <B>you</B> owning up to? When you posted your message, were you blaming her for the pain she's caused you? I have days myself when I could write a post similar to yours, one with pain written all over it. <P>I had a day like that yesterday as a matter of fact. Each time it happens, I find myself falling into a "blaming" mode. I find it impossible to be positive or happy when I try to blame someone or something for things that are less than perfect. Give it a try and see if helps. The blaming game is mean and nasty and only accerlates the downward spiral that you're on.

HI,<BR>I am beginning to feel this is Texas as well - H had an A 4 months after moving his family here!! Where are y'all in Texas - could we be linked with OP's???? wonder...<BR>A

You are right. It is definitely a lack of character and strength, but I also believe that the whole needs not being met thing is a catalyst. There aren't many people who go out for a second dinner when the first one was satisfying and has them full and happy.<P>Not everybody will react to their needs not being met by having an affair. Some people will take longer than others to turn to other people. Some will only have EAs instead of PAs. Everyone is different.<P>Yep, it's the betrayers fault for having the affair, but if healing is to take place, you have to look at it from the point of view of why it happened so you can fix that. If you just love each other and say you forgive, the problem is still there. If you are focused on blaming and venting, it might be good for your ego for a while, but the problem is still there.<P>So vent, vent, vent, but then take a deep breath, calm down, and make a thought-out plan about what to do about it.

Thanks for all your replies. I'm from the Texas Panhandle here. This is a great place to vent!!!! lol My main point of post was I have read other post and I felt like the blame was not being given to the adulterer. And I have done plan A and B and will try c through z if need be. I'm just sick and tired of my wife not trying. To be honest with yall of you, if it weren't for my three kids (one of which is from the affair) I would not be trying at all. I believe in God and I too do not have dirvorce in my vocabulary. But I think adultery in the only reason God has given us to get a divorce. Along with the kids, I have a very high profile job, and the divorce would be on the front pages of the local newspaper and since I have a child from my W affair, I would not do anything to hurt that child.<P>Someone asked the question if I would have an affair to get back at my W. The answer is no!!!! I would never cause another person this much pain and suffering!!

Big Tex:<P>I hear where you're coming from 100%! If I had only read Dr. Harley's books, I think I would have gone nuts thinking I was to blame for this whole mess.<P>I am clinging to one sentence from "After the Affair : Healing the Pain and Rebuilding Trust When a Partner Has Been Unfaithful" by Janis Abrams Spring. She suggests a similar recovery plan to the one Dr. Harley details, but one thing she suggests saying to a recalcitrant betrayer (she doesn't go for the gentle "wayward spouse" term) is the following (don't have the book in front of me, but I almost have it memorized):<P>"It is true that I am partially responsible for your happiness, but you are totally responsible for your actions. You had a choice in what you did; now I am asking you to choose to repair our marriage."<P>I keep holding onto this. I accept responsibility for helping to create a home life which made an affair possible and desireable, but HE CHOSE the affair.<P>I hope this helps you. Good luck! --HBC