Okay, everyone, please continue with your hatred. I don't think it's healthy, and I still think it harms you and keeps you stuck more than it harms the person you hate, but carry on. <P>Wasstubborn,<P>You said <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I want her to know a couple of things that I should have let her know years ago.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's good, I think you should let her know how you feel, but that still may not guarantee that she won't attempt to "keep coming back." You have no control over what she thinks or what she tries to do....... unless you plan to remove her from this earth. EEK! Outside of that, the only thing you AND your H can do is remove her from your lives so that she can't even if she tries to "keep coming back" neither of you let her in. Now THAT you do have control over. I wish peace for you. <P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

My x husband left me for OW, we divorced after quite a while, and definitely this site could have helped me tremendously. But that was then, this is now. Anyway, it is funny how time DOES heal. When the affair was fresh, I was so curious. He used the camera with some of our family pictures on the same roll of film that he took with OW.... dummy got the film developed but took the pictures of OW out and left the negatives. LOL! I was very curious.<P>Then I saw her. The numbskull even brought her to a family gathering that the kids and I were attending with his family, (MIL was trying to get us back together, and I WAS close with his family....) UNBELIEVABLE. She caressed my husbands arms, they held hands, she whispered secrets to him, and giggled.... We had been married at this point over 11 years. Then of all things - she touched my oldest on the head and tossled his hair! I wanted to slug her.... I was so angry. I stayed angry. The nerve of her was UNBELIEVABLE. "Leave my children out of your little games!" I thought.<P>She was black. Husband and I were white. I began looking for ethnic jokes. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I couldn't wait to tell anyone and everyone that new my husband an ethnic joke. <P>It was one terrible mess, and I understand completely how people feel, New Woman. I think the more the OW oversteps into the WRONG territory, the deeper she goes, the worse it gets for the betrayed. Perhaps you limited yourself in contact with your OM. Some OW don't, ya know. Sweetpea's OW gave her an STD. I understand her anger totally. If you don't understand, then keep your comments to yourself, please! Maybe you don't realize how your comments sound so snooty! I really appreciate your input on matters, but if you can't support someone, then don't knock them, please? If you want to nudge someone into a thinking that is more your style, please be careful how you state it, because it can sound very very snooty. Please apologize to Sweetpea, She needs time to heal.<P>Time does heal. My X husband's OW soon became my children's stepmother. Things got worse before they got better. I got to know her x husband (who only lived a mile from me) and his wife. They gave me lots of mud to sling in her face. I used every bit I could. <P>You know what? It just added fuel to the fire. I decided to forgive my husband and her, and she accepted my forgiveness. I talk to her still, and we are friends. I e mail her regularly and visa versa. We have a lot in common. As far as I am concerned, she loves my kids, not in the same way I do, but I am no longer threatened by her. Her and I can discuss things on absolutely any level in life. She is probably one of my closest friends. I love her, and she is a sister in the Lord.<P>So, give some of us some time, okay? We generally come around. Your OM's Wife will too. It might be 5 years, but don't make disrespectful judgements of her. Respect her, for trying to hang on to her marriage.<P>

Thank you New Woman.<BR> I realize I can't stop her from doing anything. I just think it's about time I did something for myself. just so she knows I exist. That she knows I'm not what she thinks I am. That she knows that she is not welcome in my life.<BR>I spent so much time trying to be the better person. Look where it got me. I let her interfere in my life. Like I said. I don't want anything from her. I would like her an incling of what she's up against now that my patience is gone.<BR>I think it might make an impression. I know way more about her than she knows about me. That is because she never thinks of anyone but her.<BR>I was never afraid that H would leave me for her. She would never want that. It would mean she would have to give in return.<BR>Make a comittment.<BR>If you would really like to know about it I could write you a novel.<BR>My H is doing his best. There are some things that I need to do for myself. I am not simply an extension of our marriage.<BR>And my life is more than the affair and my marriage.

Well, Maya, you warned me. Stupid me didn't listen! Walked right into that lion's den once again.<P>TNT,<P>I've never been called snooty before. Guess there's a first time for everything. What is it exactly that you feel I owe Sweetpea an apology for? For quoting the bible? For saying that I feel the hatred is harming her more than it harms the OW (especially since she is dead). You know, it seems awful strange to me that you want me to apologize to Sweetpea but not one of you will step forward and tell Glenn that he owes any of us foprmer betrayers an apology by spewing his hatred all over the board. Not one of you!!! I tell you, the irony in this place is really a trip sometimes.<P>Like I said, fine, if anyone wants to hate anyone else, if anyone wants to be a racist or skin head, if anyone wants to lie, cheat, or steal, go right ahead! <P>You win, I'M SORRY I said anything at all.<P>Maya, I guess I'll learn my lesson some day. Stupid, stupid, stupid me.<P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

trustntruth,<P>This might be nitpicking, but unless Sweetpea had sex herself with the OW, then I believe it was her H who gave her the STD, not the OW. And maybe this misdirection of anger is the problem.

Here comes Maya with her broom, sweeping up the pieces.<P>NW, I know you mean well ... and there are some that realize your heart is in the right place.<P>Don't beat yourself up on this one. There's bigger fish to fry, ya know? Go home, slam your H on the bed (or kitchen table) and do with him what you will! That is guaranteed to make all this fade into nothingness!<P>We are so very blessed by the H's we have, NW. They have loved us and forgiven us .... and we are healing. These folks know that ... someday it will happen for them ... at least that's my prayer!<BR>

NW,<BR>I was not trying to anger you or clobber you. I don't win anything, if that is what you think! I am not attacking you. I just think sometimes your heart means well, but your comments can be read "snooty"!!!<P>PS, I am not a racist anymore whatsoever. I help resettle refugees - maybe an atonement for my previously racist attitude? <P>I just have learned after time on this board that Sweetpea is very sensitive, and she wouldn't hurt a fly. She sounds rough and tough, but she's not. Her bark is louder than her bite.

Any mother who, like my H's OW, would encourage a man to leave his children without even telling them goodbye is completely evil.

I believe that the Threads or even just comments on posts, that are aimed at "fantasy pains" for the OP's in general or when an OP is referred to by derogatory names have to be looked at in the context in which it is said.<P>For instance - A thread about OP and what you want to do to them IS a part of the healing process. <P>For these three reasons: <BR>- Venting frustration and anger in a harmless way rather than a physical way.<P>- ease of tensions and stress from the day-to-day, hour-to-hour and minute-to- minute brain numbing agony and/or all the concentrated thinking of the "affair". (Gives the brain a break!)<P>- Lightens the atmosphere and one can actually remember what a sense of humor is!!<P>When making referals on a post - it should be looked at as the person is speaking of their own situation's OP and, even if a general term is used, that it is being said in relation to either whom they are speaking with or within the confines of their discussion.<P>For example - I was conversing with a female betrayed and in addressing HER I said something about "those men...."<BR>Now - could the men on this forum have gotten in an uproar about it? I guess so! Did they? NO Did I mean to upset or address anything to the males here? NO --------<P>It's all about context!!!<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba<p>[This message has been edited by Sheba (edited September 08, 1999).]

I'll probably get another earful after this post but I was drawn to reading this when I saw the topic. <P>I already know what the W thinks of me being the OW. Many of you will remember me posting an appology here to someone about my having been involved with their husband. I am still very, very, remorseful for what I put her through, although from her subsequent posts she loathes me with every fiber in her. I guess I can't blame the hatred and anger. Her H and I were very emotionally involved and physically involved. I admit that it has been so hard to avoid any and all contact with him as we work in the same place, but for my part I am doing whatever possible to steer clear of him. And yes, I do have feelings of loss for him. I wouldn't be human if I didn't. I wish that I could unring the bell, but I can't. But neither can this man's wife. I hope for her, and for her marriage to work, that she overcome the intense anger that she feels towards me, and focus more on finding ways help herself, her husband, and their marriage.

Lay low, Mia. Re register anonymously. Time will help TL. As you can see up the post, I was healed through time and taking away the fuel for the fire. <P>Please make no contact with her husband, absolutely none. This is the best thing you can do for her right now.<P>God Bless.

I have a lot of anger towards OW. She pursued my H for years. It was a bit of a family joke. But of course, I trusted him so completely that I just thought she was pathetic. But when our lives became difficult (we had a really tough couple of years with infertility, miscarriage, complications, etc), she was like a vulture waiting in the wings. I wish now that I had taken the threat more seriously and hadn't taken his love and fidelity for granted.<P>It really helped me, however, when one day I realized that I would never, ever trade my life for hers. I have had so many blessings in my life. Even if we end up divorced, I have two wonderful daughters. I enjoyed 12 years with a wonderful man (no, I don't regret marrying him). Would I rather be 33 years old, never married (or even involved in any long-term relationship) and so desperate that I'll go after another woman's husband? No. I have some very, very profound regrets, but I can hold my head up and count my blessings. <P>I think venting a little is okay. It just blows off steam. I'll admit I'm disturbed by the grave desecrating stuff, though. I just don't put desecrating a toyota in the same category.

yes, Mia... lay real low. I know you want forgiveness, but you're gonna have problems whenever you post. You know that.<P>NW,<BR>I don't know if you'll ever read this, but know this:<P>It's normal to wonder. As you know, I DO know what the W thinks of me and it isn't pretty. But I guess that's to be expected. When I was the W who was betrayed I absolutely HATED the OW (there were two confirmed, one other later who came after, but H came straight to me with letter, gift, etc. and we stopped it before anything began). One OW in particular... I wanted to kill her. She called herself a Christian and she and my H had BIBLE studies in the park... HOW SWEET! So when I say that I understand from BOTH sides, I do!

Listen, everyone. I am really sorry if I offended any of you, or if I "sounded" snooty. All I was trying to say is that holding onto hatred and resentment will harm you more than it will harm the OP. I know that I should probably just let things I read here slide, but that's hard for me. I'm the kind of person that speaks up when I hear something that I feel is unacceptable, under any circumstances.<P>So, just to give you an example, I'm the person in the crowd who would stand up to the guy at the bar using the "N" word. And I don't care why he's using it. It's unacceptable to me. Even if his entire family had been murdered by an african american, I still would consider it wrong for him to use the "N" word.<P>So, that's why hearing talk about urinating on someone's grave got to me. And the fact that we all would act like that's a healthy thing bothered me even more. That's just the kind of person I am.<P>But, this thread was written out of my concern for everyone's healing process. If hating the OP would bring you all peace, then I'd say hate away, but I know it won't. On the contrary, I think it can impede healing.<P>Rebuilding marriages, healing, recovery, moving forward, becoming better people, that's what I'm all about.<P>Again, sorry if I offended anyone.<P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

I'll stop hating OW AS SOON AS SHE'S OUT OF MY LIFE!<BR>She claims to care about my kids so much, then maybe she should stop taking my H's calls? Maybe she should answer my questions about where he was living?<BR>I just want her GONE, and she knows it, but H keeps talking to her.<BR>Makes me sick (literally)

*bleep*<P>*bleep* *bleep*<P>and so on and so forth-thats what I think of the OW

NW,<P>You did nothing wrong. I don't see how anyone could be offended by the truth. I can see how they might not like to hear it, but they shouldn't shoot the messenger. Everyone knows that it is wrong to hate. It's just that right now they can't see that they are hurting themselves. Plus, most of these women's H's are still involved with the OW, making her an easy target for their hatred. I think sometimes you say things that others think but are afraid to say. I wanted to say something about the "revenge fantasy" stuff, but I was afraid.

welp, as usual, I couldn't stay out of this for long.<BR>I can tell you what I think of tow, which one shall I start with ?<P>lets do emotional affair # 1 shall we? <BR>I can't stand the thought of her, she has the same darn name as I do, she sat around crying to my h that her h beat her, well my h decided she needed a friend, only lies and sneaking around behind my back started, she had the nerve to get in my face one night when I confronted h in front of her, I haven't seen her since I offered to snatch her bald headed, and don't want to either.<P>on to the wildebeast, look she IS a wildebeast and a prostitute, and she's darn proud of that too. She mistreated my son when she lived with my h, called him names, and was trying to make him call her mom, if I feel anything for her it is a combo of disgust and a kind of pity. I want nothing to do with her, but when her h left her for another woman a few years ago, what did she do ? She called me crying, "oh Deb now i understand how you felt" Like I told her, she has nO IDEA how I felt, you see she invited the ow her h got involved with into her bed with her and her h, I never invited that skanky, slimy broad to sleep with my h, she got what she asked for period the end.<P>emotional affair # 2,<BR> Can't stand her either, she was married to h's x bil, got caught sleeping with h's cousins h, started calling my h to take her here and there when her h threw her out, and then when I let it be known I didn't like it one darn bit she started calling him at work so I wouldn't know.<BR> <BR>Last ow,<BR> well this one I am really cofused about, I guess the safest thing for me to say about her skanky little self is I never want to see the little slimealeena again. I hope someone does to her what she did to me.<P> I hold my h responsible for his actions, my respect for him is almost nil,and believe me, he has caught his share from me and then some. but I will say this, all of these women knew he was married, 3 of the 4 knew me personaily, and I will never understand how a woman would willingly do this to another woman. Especially if they had it done to them. And thats what I think about my h's xow's. If I want to dream of revenge I will, if I want to send them a anomous package of dog poop from dogdoo.com I'll do that too. If they ever get near my h again all I can say is God have mercy on them, because I don't intend to. If this makes me a bad person then so be it, personally I think it makes me a person who is sick and tired of being hurt.<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Just lost all that I was writing here, I hate when that happens!\ANyway first I don't see anything wrong with this thread, so don't worry.<BR>Secondly, althoug I did some silly things to my ow ( nothing really bad, I have a thread on it, just to relieve tension, some kind of silly jokes ) I don't hate her or anything. She doesn't necessarily have to be a bad person. althoug I still think that she made some really bad choices, but that has only to do with her values, she has to have some good points too. <BR>However I find important to give a different perspective here:<BR>I know that most of you here are hurting. I was hurting too this time last year ( although the worst had passed). And before I go any further please don't take this personally, it doesn't apply to everybody.<BR>O.k. let me continue: When we are faced with a spouse's affair. We are not expecting it most of the time.ANd if we're coming here, it means we want to be able to "fix" our marriage, so we still love our spouse. In that frame of mind, it becomes easyer to focus on the op. We would really like to be able to think that it wasn't completely our spouse's fault. The other person pushed it, and forced the situation, and didn't let go. WEll.. yes, and no, and maybe depending on the case. However the ultimate responsability is our spouse's. Yes the op might have pushed, and forced the situation, but they didn't have to go for it. Are we trying to say that our spouses are so weak that they don't know how to say no or make their own choices. We can't possibly think that!And so the op becomes this kind of monster that keeps growing and growing in our minds.Sometimes it even bocomes an obsession. Alhtough I thought about my ow many times - more that I wanted too - I look back and find it was a waste of time. However I think it's a phase we have to go trough. And being so different we all react to it differently. Being a waste of time or not. talking about things we would like to tell tjem or do to them it's kind of a release of pressure and should be taken in that context. SOme people get a bit more excited about it that's all. But as time passes the big majority can enter a phase where they don't even give the op a second thought, and certainly don't really hate the op. <BR>There are ops that were meaner or more cunning or more destructive than others, that happens not because they're an op, but because that's the way they are. But if/when we're rebuilding we really should concentrate on that and don't waste time thinking about the op that much. It makes rebuilding easyer.<BR>Take care<BR>Kat

Deb,<P>ROFLMAO on the dogdoo site!!! I wonder if they have been inundated with visitors tonight! That place is too funny. Thanks for sharing it with us. It might come in handy someday! hehe<P>------------------<BR>The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart.<BR>Helen Keller<BR>