Experience with a H with a wandering eye? Are there any books that deal with this topic? My H (we've been maried for eight years) has a serious wandering eye. He has promised me that he has never and will never actually take it any further than just looking. But his looking makes me feel that one day he will find what I "think" he's looking for. We have had many, many arguments over this. <P>While there are many situations that have occurred, let me just give one example: We drive into a parking lot. A female is coming our way (dressed provocatively). My H does not move our truck any further forward instead he backs up such that she will never get out of his eyesight. He atually attempts to park in a Handicapped spot because she is headed in that direction. I inform him that we cannot park there and he quickly (with lightening speed) finds a near spot and jumps from the truck and is into the parking lot before I can open my door. He has left all paperwork in the truck and afterwards has to return to get them before we head into the building. I WAS CRUSHED!!! I am an attractive woman, but this behavior is making me feel like a second fiddle. Is this something that goes further if he finds a willing partner?<P><BR>

I think the problem isn't being worried about him taking it another step further and having an affair. I think the bigger problem is the lack of respect your husband has for you! Every man notices a beautiful woman, heck I notice beautiful women but chasing one down or staring at her is being extremely disrespectful to you! I don't know, maybe his self esteem stinks and he needs the ego boost that you give him by getting jealous over it. Somebody on one of these boards once mentioned that a spouses behavior goes as far as the other spouse will allow it to go. That sentence I think is SO true. How would I handle it? Well I think first I'd explain to my husband that his behavior is very disrespectful to me and that I felt it was extremely rude. Now a mature and loving husband would stop it at that point. If I found myself in a situation where he still continued to act in this matter I'd leave. Example: Your sitting in a restaurant and he does this. Get up and leave. I guess I'd tell my husband that I don't want to be seen in public with a man that acts like a child and embarrasses me, not to mention the lack of respect that he has for me.

I think that the last thing you need to worry about is your H's wandering eyes, we men are visual creatures and will always look, I think you should be more concerned with what appears to be a lack of respect for you. I think that all of us men are guilty at some point in time of looking at another woman while out with our wives, but I would hope that most of the men would "sneak" his peaks and not make it obvious. Staring or following is totally and completely disrespectful.

Thanks BS and FA. I have told him repeatedly that this behavior is disrespectful. I am at the point now where I am either going to begin doing the same thing to him or I must go. I feel like he is destroying my self esteem/self worth. I don't want to end my marriage with him because other than this he is a very good husband. (hope I don't sound like Hillary), but he truly is. <P>He constantly tells me that he is trying to stop it and that he's working on himself, blah, blah, blah, but my patience is growing thin.<P>Any others?

Blindmice,<BR>First, let me warn you that I feel very strongly about this subject, due to having lived in those shoes. This idea that "men will be men" or that "men are visual creatures" just makes me shake my head! I don't know anyone (man or woman) who is more "visual" than me, Nor do I know of another woman who has as high a sex drive as me, but I've learned to know where to draw the line when it comes to being MENTALLY FAITHFUL! No, I'm not a goody goody bible thumping frump (just the opposite)! <P>What your husband is doing is wrong for a married man WHETHER HE IS WITH YOU OR NOT! The issue should not be whether or not you're there, it still creates a habbit of being drawn to and placing value and worth on someones physical attributes. Yes, this is probably the instinctive reaction of most men, but it CAN BE OVERCOME!!! Yes, we all notice an attractive person, BUT what's wrong with looking away once we see them? What is to be gained by continuing to look? Especially if the person is dressed provocatively, then isn't it a form of lust? Isn't lust for another person other than one's partner wrong? Isn't someone who is dressed provocatively just hoping for a response from someone from the opposite sex (maybe from your spouse or mine?) Men, DON'T YOU GET THAT? Why give THEM what they want, and deny your wife what she deserves--YOUR UNDIVIDED ATTENTION???<P>I'm very saddened by the number of young women who because of the media, gawking men, and pressure to be drop dead gorgeous, end up with self-esteem problems and/or end up trying to become the "lustee" for the attention, ego gratification, etc.<P>I remember reading something in one of Harley's books that states that no woman should have to compete for her husband's sexual attention. He was mostly referring to memories of past lovers, girlie mags, etc. THERE IS A GOOD REASON FOR THIS! The damage that can be done to a marriage and the partners self-esteem is ENORMOUS! If any of you think that "just looking" is your God-given right, you might want to think again. It might even get you more than you bargained for in the end.<P>I too, was an extremely attractive woman. Nevertheless, I dealt with a similar situation, in addition to pornography & lack of emotional intimacy issues for years. I had every man's attention EXCEPT my own husbands. Eventually because I felt so unloved, I ended up having 2 affairs of my own--mostly emotional but eventually both had physical encounters as well. I've paid dearly for these mistates, and things are wonderful now with my marriage. I know that these days, it's unpopular to give much value to "mental fidelity". but I personally know that for my husband and me, it's extremely important.<BR>So...in answer to your question "Does a wondering eye ever stray physically? Well maybe the answer is that in the end, it may not be the wandering eye who strays, but the wanderering eye's spouse! How's THAT for pathetic poetic justice???<P><p>[This message has been edited by Bink (edited July 13, 2000).]

I agree with Bink 100%!! My H too had a wandering eye....it would just drive me nuts! Whenever we were out for dinner or coffee, and I was talking to him...his eye would ALWAYS wander toward the most beautiful woman in the room. I too told him how disrespectful it was to me. I too am a beautiful woman and his wandering eye not only told me he wasn't listening to me, but he wasn't respecting me either. He too used the "men are visual" excuse...or "that's just the way I am...I'm only looking"..blah, blah, blah.... <P>Well, now he's gone and when he left told me that part of his problem is that he's always "looking" for that perfect universe....perfect woman, perfect job, perfect life....and that his leaving is part of that searching process...what a crock! I mean this is a 41 year old man with a master's degree!! HELLO!?!?!? There is no such thing...where has he been? I should have paid more attention when he watched "The Matrix" every night for 3 months! I did think that was kinda weird!!<P>Anyway, back to the subject....so what if they are more visual. Big deal. It's still disrespectful. Period. Control yourself, man! Grow up!! We know you're more visual! How often do you look at your wife...I mean REALLY LOOK at her and appreciate all the beauty and womanliness in her body?!?! <P>That's what used to get me too....when we were getting ready for work in the mornings, he'd suddenly say..."is that a new dress?" "No, I've worn it a ba-zillion times before." Did he ever look at me...really see me??<P>God does not change. Lusting after a woman is sin. Don't you think God KNOWS that men are more visual? HE MADE THEM THAT WAY. But He also instructed that our desire be for our spouse.<P>Okay...I'm gonna get off this soapbox. I just get so tired of people making excuses left and right for their behaviour. As Skip Wilson used to say "the devil made me do it." Yeah, yeah, yeah!!<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bink:<BR><B>This idea that "men will be men" or that "men are visual creatures" just makes me shake my head!<BR> <BR>What your husband is doing is wrong for a married man WHETHER HE IS WITH YOU OR NOT! The issue should not be whether or not you're there, it still creates a habbit of being drawn to and placing value and worth on someones physical attributes. Yes, this is probably the instinctive reaction of most men, but it CAN BE OVERCOME!!! Yes, we all notice an attractive person, BUT what's wrong with looking away once we see them? What is to be gained by continuing to look? Especially if the person is dressed provocatively, then isn't it a form of lust? Isn't lust for another person other than one's partner wrong? Isn't someone who is dressed provocatively just hoping for a response from someone from the opposite sex (maybe from your spouse or mine?) Men, DON'T YOU GET THAT? Why give THEM what they want, and deny your wife what she deserves--YOUR UNDIVIDED ATTENTION???</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm sorry Bink, but men are visual creatures, we are made that way. If I have learned anything in the past year, I have learned that men and women are <B>made</B> differently, and men are visual creatures. I do feel that blindmice's husband is wrong for his actions, his actions are very disrespectful, I have no argument with you there, but to say to that men being visual creatures makes you shake your head is to deny our makeup, which is unrealistic. I also believe that there is a huge difference between looking at an attractive person and lusting after them. I can look at an attractive woman, but that doesn't mean that I am lusting after her, and as I stated in my earlier post, staring or following is crossing the line. While we are visual creatures, we do decide our own behavior, and I do believe that men <B>will</B> look at an attractive person, if a man tells you that he doesn't, I would tend to believe that he is lying, but again looking is not the same as staring, following or lusting.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mrs.O:<BR><B>I agree with Bink 100%!! My H too had a wandering eye....it would just drive me nuts! Whenever we were out for dinner or coffee, and I was talking to him...his eye would ALWAYS wander toward the most beautiful woman in the room. I too told him how disrespectful it was to me. I too am a beautiful woman and his wandering eye not only told me he wasn't listening to me, but he wasn't respecting me either. He too used the "men are visual" excuse...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't know if anyone on this thread has used men are visual creatures as an excuse for blindmice's husband, if anything, I think every post on this thread has said that her husband is wrong. I do know for a fact that I stated that his behavior was disrespectful and wrong, so I take a little offense at the notion that I was making an excuse for her husband. I think too many times people read things that are not there because of the pain that they are going through with their own spouses, and I do understand that, somewhat, but in doing that you distort what has actually been written. If your husband uses "men are visual creatures" as an excuse to be disrepectful towards you, that doesn't mean that the postings on this thread is saying the same thing..........please go back and re-read what has been written, I think that you will find that no one has made any excuses for the poor behavior that was displayed.

Here's what I want to know.<P>Did his eye ALWAYS stray or is this new? <P>Remember when you were first dating? Did his eye stray then? I just think that when you are really in love, it won't. Period. You are so busy looking at your beloved that the others just fade in the backround. Of course EVERYONE (man or woman) notices an exceptionally beautiful person, or a really overtly sexual person (no bra, see everything, kind of thing). Noticing is one thing, gawking is another thing.<P>So to answer your question, I think that a true wandering eye is prone to stray, but the question becomes, what is a wandering eye?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by energizer_bunny:<BR><B>I just think that when you are really in love, it won't. Period. You are so busy looking at your beloved that the others just fade in the backround.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I agree with this up to a certain point, remember that men and women are built differently, and while women may not look at another man when she is in love, that may or may not be the case with all men. I still contend that we men can look at an attractive woman without staring at her, without lusting after her or wanting her or trying to get close to her, we can look because we like what we see, and that's all. I will also reiterate that I am not condoning or making excuses for blindmice's husband, his behavior is unexcusable and disrespectful, but at the same time, recognize that men and women are built differently. I think that most of the men that come to this board have learned this fact the hard way, it just sounds to me that while women are expecting us to come to the realization that you think and feel differently than we do, you are forgetting to do the same.

F A,<BR>Sorry, I did not mean to offend you or to imply that men are NOT visual creatures. I realize that they are. I, too, can relate because even though I'm "only a woman", I have always been a very visual person in every way from learning things, memory, beauty in art & nature, maps, interior design, imagination, fantasy, colorful dreams, affirmations, and even noticing attractive people, etc. I CAN RELATE!!!! I UNDERSTAND that you are not endorsing lustful looking!<P>I believe that we are more on the "same page" than you think. I just have some confusion with some of your logic.<P>For example, you said, "I think that all of us men are guilty at some point in time of looking at another woman while out with our wives, but I would hope that most of the men would "sneak" his peeks and not make it obvious. Staring or following is totally and completely disrespectful."<P>SNEAK HIS PEEKS? Yikes!!!! Why is it disrespectful to admire a beautiful woman in your spouses presence, but not while she is gone? What's wrong with eliminating the behavior if it offends the spouse, whether the behavior is in fact "morally wrong" or not? How about the fact that it's a BIG FAT LOVE BUSTER?????<P>Let's assume that there is NOT lust involved, but the wife is still uncomfortable about it for any number of reasons. Is "sneaking a peak" so alluring and overpowering that it takes priority over the needs of security of the spouse who is offended or hurt by it? <P>Do you really think that it should mostly be done behind the spouses back? Is it only disrespectful because the spouse "sees it" or is embarrased by what other people "will think" if they notice? Does it matter whether this behavior is uncomfortable for the wife (even if it's not lust)? And, is it still okay to do it as long as she doesn't know about it? <P>We all have different opinions on this, but<BR>I believe the best approach is one of total honesty suggested by Dr. Harley, which basically states, "Don't ever give your spouse a false impression about yourself, your past, your present actions, your thoughts, etc." And for that matter, also the policy of joint agreement on this or any other issue. <P>I would liken this to an annoying habit or behavior. Habits are hard to break, but it certainly can be done if the person CARES to do it. And IF it's very important for a spouses sense of security, I feel that it should be respected as such and deliberate action should be taken to avoid it whether the spouse is present or not. <P>F A, I understand, respect, and agree with your differentiation of lust, staring, following, etc. And I'm not suggesting that we won't notice an attractive person, but to continue looking at them for more than a brief glance is a CHOICE.<P>We all have different needs. For some of us, having loyalty in this area is a very big comfort--even if it's not inappropriate looking--i.e., lust. Just knowing that OUR FEELINGS are more important than satisfying that instinctive visual desire to look and admire. For other women, it is a non-issue. Every couple's needs are different, and each should resolve "issues" in a way that is comfortable to both parties.<P>Regarding THIS paticular issue, I am merely suggesting a very "NOVEL" idea here, to husbands of wives for whom it is important, and that is to not just "assume" that it's INEVITABLE because "men are visual creatures". It's simply a habit like anything else and can be changed. I know, because I have changed this behavior in myself out of respect for my husband and because I have a desire for him to give me the same courtesy.<P>I appreciate your thoughts, F A, and apologize to you and anyone else that I may have offended. I am merely suggesting another option to a problem that plagues many, many women!<P>Binkie

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F A:<BR><B> I don't know if anyone on this thread has used men are visual creatures as an excuse for blindmice's husband</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You're right...no one HERE has used that excuse....I was referring to the men out there, including my H who have used it....I've heard it from other men too....my brothers, etc. I was quite clear that I DO understand that men and woman are different...God made us that way and men ARE more visual....I accept that with no problem.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>...so I take a little offense at the notion that I was making an excuse for her husband.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I didn't mean to offend you or say YOU were making an excuse for her husband.... I just feel like in most cases, when that verbage is used....the intent is to "excuse" the behavior. YOU tell ME...when does looking cross the line into lusting....?? How many men do you know who can acually tell when this line is crossed??<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I think too many times people read things that are not there because of the pain that they are going through with their own spouses.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yup, you are right again. I do have pain about this. I probably did read something into what was ACTUALLY written. However, we all do that when we read (You wrote that I implied that you were making an excuse for her husband...when I DIDN'T write that at all...)...we also have to read between the lines a bit to get the full intent of what is being said. I don't just use my eyes to see the words and say "yes that's an c, that's an a....and that forms the word 'cat'." I also use my experiences, feeling, intuition, etc. when I READ things. I may get it wrong, but I think most people here would agree with me (I could be wrong again...) when I say that men all too often use the "men are visual creatures/I'm JUST looking" to excuse the type of behaviour that blindmice was describing, even tho she didn't use those EXACT words. If all the people on this thread, as well as her husband, realizes that his behaviour bothers her, why can a man just say "I'm sorry....I shouldn't have done that. That wasn't very nice to you." Why can't they just fess up? <P>Just my thoughts....I'm not perfect and am open to other ways of seeing things. Thanks for pointing that out....I probably do use the filter of "my feelings" a little to much these days...but that's where I am right now.<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Mrs.O (edited July 14, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR>I believe that we are more on the "same page" than you think. I just have some confusion with some of your logic.<BR>SNEAK HIS PEEKS? Yikes!!!! Why is it disrespectful to admire a beautiful woman in your spouses presence, but not while she is gone?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I believe that many men understand that "sneaking a peak" does not mean "admiring" a beautiful woman. While the difference may be subtle, there is a difference. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR>Do you really think that it should mostly be done behind the spouses back? Is it only disrespectful because the spouse "sees it" or is embarrased by what other people "will think" if they notice? Does it matter whether this behavior is uncomfortable for the wife (even if it's not lust)? And, is it still okay to do it as long as she doesn't know about it?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Is a brief glance at someone attractive really that sinister Again, I'm not talking about staring with one's mouth hanging open, I'm talking about a simple quick glance. I think that it is natural for people, men or women, to notice other attractive people, and I'm pretty sure that most people have seen someone and said to themselves "hey that's a nice looking guy/girl." I don't think there is anything wrong with that, I don't think it is possible to walk around with blinders on. "Sneaking a peek", simply means noticing an attractive person because of a glance and then moving on, it does not mean stopping and staring. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I would liken this to an annoying habit or behavior. Habits are hard to break, but it certainly can be done if the person CARES to do it. And IF it's very important for a spouses sense of security.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I would agree with you totally if this was about staring, or continously looking back at someone else, but I think that I made it clear that this behavior is totally different than "sneaking a peak", and maybe "sneaking a peak", was the wrong choice of words, but I meant a quick glance.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mrs.O:<BR><B>...we also have to read between the lines a bit to get the full intent of what is being said. I don't just use my eyes to see the words and say "yes that's an c, that's an a....and that forms the word 'cat'." I also use my experiences, feeling, intuition, etc. when I READ things. I may get it wrong, but I think most people here would agree with me (I could be wrong again.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Mrs O, trust me when I say that this is one of the things that I have learned since coming to this board, women do exactly what you have written, while men are much more literal. For years I have been totally and completely frustrated with the communication between my W and I, and it's because I will say something to her and mean <B>exactly</B> what I have said, word for word, while she has been "listening" to me and <B>reading between the lines</B> and comes away with a totally different message than the one intended. Or I will listen to what she has to say and take what she has said word for word, only to find out later that I got it all wrong because I was supposed to <B>understand what she was TRYING to say</B><P>I think that is what happend on this thread, blindmice described a behavior that I think everyone agreed was inappropriate and disrespectful, but in expressing this, some messages got messed up and switched around. I agree with you that staring is inappropriate, and as I have tried to do in the earlier post, there is a difference between a glance(sneeking a peak) and staring. <P>To expect your spouse to respect you by not staring at or lusting after another woman is right on point, no arguments from me on that one, but to ask men to never glance at an attractive woman is asking for the impossible(we are made by God that way), just because he notices an attractive woman doesn't mean that he doesn't find you attractive and wants to go off and jump her bones, but that is just my opinion.<P><p>[This message has been edited by F A (edited July 15, 2000).]