This may belong in recovery or emotional needs, but most of you post here. I stewed about this last night.<P>My H came home and said he changed his work schedule around next week. At first I thought he was kidding...<P>See, my daughters and I have an tradition of attending an Art Fair together. We spend a night or two...take in the fair, the entertainment and just basically hang out in a more urban setting than we are used to. I have even told them when they are grown and gone, if I can afford it, I will send them plane tickets to join me each year. That's how big of deal it is to us. H has no interest in art or any recreational activity that does not involve risking one's limbs, so he doesn't come. That's fine, although I risk my limbs to do his recreational activities....<P>This year our old dog can not be left alone for more than a few hours at a time, so it was important for H to be home. I made 3 nights of reservations way back, so we could figure out the best one or two would work. I even said if I had to leave at dawn and come back late, I would even make it a day trip (about 3 hours away). Although we had not settled on a final plan, we had talked about this for several weeks...and he had off I think two of the possible days.<P>He was asked to cover for this guy on vacation...so he rescheduled his week. Now he has 0 days off during the Art Fair.<P>When he told me and I very calmly said that was the Art Fair, he was surprised. Then he said, well you know, with this new promotion and the fact he is getting his annual review right now, he didn't have much of a choice. I told him I was disappointed, but I understood his schedule had to come first.<P>Then the dagger. He said, well...I never even thought about you and the art fair.<P>OK..so here is the question. I could have sadly handled that he weighed our trip into his decision and felt he had to cover for this guy to help advance his career and get a higher rating on review (a one point difference could quite a difference in a raise and promotability). I was hurt, because something so important to me wasn't even on his mind.<P>I don't feel like a priority in his life. He WANTS me to be happy, but not enough to put much effort into giving to the relationship.<P>I did tell him, calmly I was hurt and disappointed again today. He said "Well I said I was sorry." Big Whoop.<P>I have no intention to LB or bring it up again (although I am quite sure my daughters may).<P>Am I being too sensitive having hurt feelings?<BR>

Well, I don't know about everyone else here, but IMHO, I probably would've been hurt too. Tama (my H) has done A LOT of things like this so I know what it feels like.<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/zbucketmouse" TARGET=_blank>http://www.geocities.com/zbucketmouse</A> is where my page is. Check it out!:)

FHL,<P>You know you are such a great source of advice here, I feel like a real amatuer (sp) trying to respond. If someone asked you this question, how would you reverse it to make the situation positive? You are great at it and have helped so many people here with your perceptive advice.<P>I will tell you first how I would solve the problem, Yeah typical male . Then tell you what I think. I would take the dog to the vet or someplaces that houses pets. Yes, it costs money but that is what H's raise was for, right? I would not let this upset your plans. I love animals, but I would not let one upset a marriage, or an event that you obviously hold very dear.<P>Now are you being too sensitive. I believe you might be. You H was being honest when he answered you. This event is not on his radar screen, so when someone asked he agreed for the reasons mentioned. He didn't do it to hurt you or deprive you of your trip. He simply didn't factor it in because it wasn't on his calender. You could argue it should of been but realistically why would that be tops in his mind or even on the short list.<P>He apologized as he should, and if you work with him the two of you can probably come up with a plan that lets you go to the fair and he to work, and covers the dog.<P>Now I know your feelings are hurt, but I don't think he was really looking forward to having no days off. He did this to get promoted and make more money for the family and that includes you. I realize that women don't appreciate that men think like this but he is thinking about you when he makes such a decision.<P>I also know that your response is pretty normal and very rational but from his point of view, he said he was sorry, he was honest with you (didn't make up so story to make himself look good), and there really isn't much he can do, except help solve the problem so that you can go to the fair.<P>Having a bad day FHL? Your entitled.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Well, my friend, you make some good points and I really used them all on myself already <P>Didn't help much <P>I will consider boarding her...and this is a long long story, but she can no longer walk, but is basically healthy from the waist up. She is almost 17, but alert, interactive and great appetite. We talked about putting her to sleep the last few weeks, and I know she is a dog, but if SHE is not suffering, I can not do it in good consciousness. I know that is a personal decision and other could choose differently. I think my girls have really learned lessons in patiently caring these last few months. She did all right when we were on vacation 2 months ago, but with a more crowded boarding place and the heat and the bugs, I'm just not sure how well it would work.<P>You are right. He absolutely did not mean to hurt me and he is sorry.<P>However, sometimes things hurt worse when you know you wouldn't have done the same things if the tables were reversed. I bust my.....to cater to his schedule...and I have done that for about 8 years now. I guess he really isn't used to me depending on him for anything, so maybe it was just easy to over look.<P>I do appreciate what a good provider he is. I fully supported his decision to go back for his Masters, to take this new position, everything. I understand that these are our goals and the pay back will be 3 college educations for our girls and a comfortable retirement and any time now, the option for me to pursue a few of my own dreams (that don't pay well). And the neat thing is as hard as he works, his career is not really a high priority. He is not into power or control. Their is a lot to admire.<P>But you know what? I'm not chopped liver. I think he's happy, his needs are being met and he does not feel compelled to dig deeper for fulfill my need for greater intimacy. I'd love more time, but time is at a premium in our life. I'd just be happy with the contented little feeling inside that I was indeed #1 in his life. That he could actually thought of me when he was away from me. I would like to know that he not only wants me to be happy, but he sees some connection in contributing to our relationship. <P>I have the feeling (and it may not be true) that he could walk away from my grave and just go on like I never existed. That doesn't feel good.

FHL,<P>I am sorry to burst your bubble here, but there is no way he doesn't consider you needs or isn't in love with you.<P>You said <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>That he could actually thought of me when he was away from me. I would like to know that he not only wants me to be happy, but he sees some connection in contributing to our relationship. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>He wants to see you happy. Dear Lady, he simply forgot what weekend it was. How could he do that? Well he was at work and guys particularly compartmentalize thngs. When at work we think of work, when home we think of home. It helps keep our mind off of that dreaded word: sex . I can assure you he thinks of you a lot more than you realize , but he cannot do anything about it at work.<P>What I was trying to say was that he thinks he is contributing to your relationship by bringing in more money, working extra, so forth. It is how us guys are brought up to think. We really do think we are trying to contribute. <P>So think about this, are you being as obsessive about this as he is about his work? Isn't there some room to interpret this as simply "he forgot", not that he doesn't love and cherish you? <P>FHL this isn't the acid test of his love for you or even a test at all.<P>Hope this helps.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>PS: I didn't mean to imply putting the dog down. I just meant make other accomodations for him. Perhaps a neighboor can feed the dog during the day on the weekend before H comes home from work. You can be creative here you know <P>

OK...you are being entirely too reasonable <P>And if anybody preaches about being careful not to misinterpret thing, I do. So I will try to take a healthy dose of my own medicine.<P>However, he really is Clueless. <P>The other night I tried to have a talk with him and I kept having to remind him when it was his turn to talk. It is like he has a emotional impairment.<P>He is nice, never mean, rarely grumpy, but maybe he is really imcapable of deep emotion.<P>At least he has a problem conveying it.

FHL, I agree that you are one of the most sensible people that post replies on this board. I have admired your perspective many times. I think we have to remember that no matter how hard any of us try, nobody will ever be perfect or have the perfect relationship. That is why it helps to fume and vent here sometimes. I don't believe that your husband made his arrangements to hurt you on purpose. He was being "a man" in my opinion. I'm sure he does see things from his own perspective and chose that because of the benefits it would bring you and the family. This could be a good time to practice problem-solving together so that everyone could come up a winner here. Give him a chance to practice more sensitivity. Enjoy your trip with your daughters!

Yeah FHL,<P>Isn't clueless cute? <P>JL

These are just the times when a 2X4 would come in mighty handy! <P>You already HEARD all the answers. And your brain knows they're reasonable. But that doesn't really help when your heart is hurt, huh?<P>He didn't MEAN to forget....and that doesn't make it one bit easier. He just thinks differently. He does love you, you know that. He does care that you do the things that are important to you. You know that, too. He's just..........him!!!! You know that all too well.<P>It's ok to be hurt. The same thoughts would have crossed MY mind. Now.....chaulk it up to "different brain waves" and have a good time on your mini-vacation, ok? Sometimes, no matter how much we concentrate on the principles we learned so well here, it seems to come down to the fact that each of us SHOWS love differently.....and, in this case, it's not what you needed!<P>BTW, he'd stay by your grave.....I'm not real sure he could get by without you!!!!<P>Hugs,<P>Lori

Ironically it was something that attracted me to him. He didn't play games. He was steady and after a relationship with a boyfriend who adored me, but couldn't control his own behavior (drinking...cheating), I was choose my H for having the characteristics he has. Of course when he was first madly in love with me, he was a tad more romantic, of course <P>By the way, I know this sounds corny, but its true. Almost every morning when my H gets out of bed before the crack of dawn to go to work, I tell him how much I appreciate what a good provider he is and how he works so hard for our family. I also tell him I love him and I'll miss him until he comes home.<P>OK...I do get "Love you, too, see ya", but never any other sweet words.<P>My dear 14 year old daughter said she would stay home and watch the dog and other 11 year old and I could go. Isn't that sweet? Of course the whole point of the trip is to BE with my daughters. <P>hopeful now...me sensible? Thanks, but don't know that I resemble that remark

Lostva,<P>Thanks...and he would bumble around without me. I don't think he has a clue how much easier I make his life.<P>I guess that would be because he is CLUELESS!

FHL,<BR>Good to see you posting...sorry it's because of your feeling bad.<P>Just Learning sounds really reasonable, there just is that "man-think".<P>One of the things my H & I are doing is coordinating calendars. He has his day planner, I have the refrigerator calendar and we try to get together a couple times a month to put important dates on. It doesn't always work, last month on a Saturday I had to work, both girls had at least 1 game (& they don't drive)...and he hadn't put his out-of-town trip on my calendar. Ugh.<P>I sometimes also call him while he is at work to confirm that important dates are on his calendar. Oddly a lot of these "good" habits began while we were separated, but I hope they don't disappear!<P>Wishing you all the best.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

FHL,<P>It's been hard being married to my own Mr. Clueless, but he is getting better.<P>I have had similar problems many times. Now, I try to nail down exactly what I will need from him, because I usually think it is much more set than it is in his mind.<P>At this point, I think I would tell him that you are still very much set on going (not enthusiastic about cancelling) and spending the time with your Ds. Since he won't be available to watch the dog, could he help come up with a plan? Guys usually like to come up with plans.<P>You know, maybe you could get some responsible young person to check on the dog every three hours and do what it needs. I have become very creative trying to fill the gaps when I travel with my h and leave my kids. I had to pay a sitter to pick them up from school and wait until grandpa could get here from work.<P>Anyway, I think you know it doesn't mean he doesn't love you.

Hi FHL -<P>Oooh, I actually get to post on a thread for YOU!!!!! YAY!!!!<P>Yes, it hurts that they don't seem to remember anything that is important to or about us......man thinking? Maybe.<BR>Clueless? Probably...... but, does that mean that it should continue? OR should a man begin to learn HOW to show the same consideration that they are given?<P>JL, stick around cuz I need your input here......<P>FHL - did he know that he was to take care of the dog for those days? I mean had you come out and told him that this would be his responsibility while you were away? If not, then he probably did not think of the trip because it did not DIRECTLY affect anything that HE HAD to do....so, it's forgotten very easily.<P>If, however, he knew that he would be responsible for the dog and then went and made other plans (whether necessary or not) - is he now plopping it in your lap to worry on the dog? <P>Or are You taking on all the planning and not sharing the load of it with him?<P>In marriage there is usually one person who "handles" things.....the other one becomes lax in this skill after a while (if they ever had it at all!!)<P>If he knew of his responsibility with the dog...isn't it his job to cover that then? <P>If not, then next time - make sure you are both on the same wavelength with who is needed to do what!!!!<P>Perhaps the clueless need specifics!!!<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba<BR>

<P>I just HAD to weigh in on this one, dear, because WE ARE MARRIED TO THE SAME MAN, AND HE TRAVELS. <P>It's 10:00 at night. Stepdad is here. H came home in a snit because he had a hard day. I grilled hamburgers, made salad, popped fries in the oven for H, made ravioli for stepdad, shlepped all this stuff plus condiments down the stairs to the patio so we could eat outside where it's cooler, then shlepped almost all of it upstairs, except two serving dishes, whereupon H spilled spaghetti sauce all over his shirt and threw a tantrum.<P>I just finished looking up the bus schedule for tomorrow, I have laundry in the machine, I've medicated the cat, and the dishes are done.<P>H is asleep. Thank God, because right now I could cheerfully bash his head in with a claw hammer.<P>So I do understand, dear. <P>You know what? THESE GUYS LACK THE EMPATHY GENE. They just don't have it. You know that dumb look they get when you try to teach them how to fold laundry? This is the same thing. As Bill Cosby once said about children: BRAIN DAMAGE!!<P>They honestly don't think about such things. My H hasn't a clue that I might need a little extra TLC dealing with an anxious stepdad who may be getting a death sentence from his oncologist on Friday. No....he has to have a little tantrum because I'm not devoting my whole evening to him.<P>Yes, you have a right to be hurt. Yes, it was selfish and thoughtless of him. But you already KNOW that he lacks this sort of empathy. I missed my shrink appointment tonight, but I can hear her in my head telling me this, so I'm passing it on to you.<P>This is another one of those times when you think "The wrong person had the affair."<P>Every now and then, on rare occasions, H will tell me that he appreciates what I bring to his life. But most of the time, it seems that he has no idea of how much tougher his life would be if I got wiped out on the highway coming home one night.

FHL,<P>Yes, men are often clueless.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>The other night I tried to have a talk with him and I kept having to remind him when it was his turn to talk. It is like he has a emotional impairment.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I had to chuckle when I read this. I have to prompt my H ALL THE TIME. I'll stop talking and wait for him to say something. <BR>Silence. We look at each other for what feels like an eternity. And then I have to prompt him "Well, what do YOU think?". Many times I get a shrug and a grunt and not much more than that.<P>I kinda like what Sheba said<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Perhaps the clueless need specifics!!!<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I guess if he doesn't have a a clue, you need to wrap one up and give it to him! <P><BR>

Lor,<BR>I was thinking about you today...where are you posting? Yes, calanders are the answer and we did go over the dates a few times, but somehow it wasn't written on his calander. I will find out next years dates and put it in neon. How are you?<P>schizzo,<BR>His plan would be to put the dog to sleep We had her before we had kids and she is my first dog in my life. She has always been really special, but in the last months where she has come to depend on me for absolutely everything, we have really bonded. If she was sick or if she showed signs of giving up, I could let her go. I made that deal with her in March when my yard was a glacier and we were both slipping and falling down at 2:00 AM when she needed assistance going out. My H loves her, too. In fact for years she liked him best, but he is judging the situation with a different set of criteria. There is really no one else that I know that could handle her. She requires lifting 50lb and then being able to do the wheel barrel running around the yard. I am certain my neighbors think I am a lunatic. Plus my H is working a 12 hour night shift and with the commute is gone 14 hours, so it really isn't possible to get in house care. In general, my H's plan is for me to plan things.<P>Sheba...yeah, he knew. We talked about it several times. He knew I had three nights and would take the girls any time period within those days/nights that would be most convenient for him. Yeah, and he is plopping it on my lap. He can not gracefully change his schedule and I know he really doesn't want her boarded so it sure didn't sound like he had any intention of figuring out a way I could go. Of course he did say "sorry", so what more could I want in the world of the CLUELESS?<P>Yes, I enable his life, but that was kind of the deal 8 years ago when he went back to school. Up until then I think he viewed my schedule as important than his. To be as supportive as I have to be, I have to be flexible and I don't have to think of my schedule as less important, but it is in most cases subordinate to his.<P>It seems a lot of spouses would be mad if their H put their job first. I'm not even upset about that, if it couldn't be helped. I am upset that something so important to me was so easily forgotten and then just pretty much shrugged off.<P>Where's the flowers, the hug, card and heartfelt apology ? In my dreams <P>He could have redeemed himself by being suffiently remorseful, at least. I would have felt terrible if I goofed up and I would have tried to fix it.<P>I know it sounds like I am whining. Maybe I am. I guess this was a clear enough example to share.<P>I guess the bottem line is I believe I am responsible for what I put into my marriage, not what I get out of it. I have no business giving less even when I feel I'm getting less.<P>However, when I feel let down, unappreciated and way down on the priority list, it is hard not to withdraw emotionally. Then I would not be holding up my half of the marriage and I believe that promise is between God and me.<P>But I don't want to walk around hurting either. Is there a way to protect my heart, but not give up emotionally?<P>

Dazed,<BR>Thank you...at least you made me laugh. Then I started wondering where our claw hammer is stored <P>You're right, the same man does get around. One difference. Mine tries to show me the most efficient way to fold laundry. So I get clueless and annoying!<P>Truthseeker,<BR>Gee, I am really happy (sorry but misery loves company) that your H forgets to speak. Does he complain of a headache after a few minutes? Does he pretend to fall asleep? If not, maybe my H could send him some pointers <P>Just hashing this out with you guys makes me feel better. So did the beach and the beautiful sunset

Hi FHL, <P>How about a hug from your old buddy. You have every right to feel hurt. <P>WHEN he is emotionally disinterested and does not reply during a conversation, you FEEL like a piece of furniture? <P>WHEN he does not consider his family's schedule, or dogs needs, or wife's enthusiasm for her children and art, you FEEL like you could go to your grave and not be missed...<P>And you did wonderful of communicating that to him. And he apologized.<P>The part that is missing, is where you lay out a solution. You NEED him to......<P>He is clueless, and you need to write the script.<P>I suspect you truly would be missed if you went to your grave. I'm sure he thinks he has no emotional needs. But, I he has some, right? He is human, right? I hope?<P>It isn't fair to say "When...I feel..." and not say what you need to prevent it from happening in the future, you are cheating both of you - and the "I'm sorry" doesn't make things much better.<P>Hugs hugs hugs.<BR>TNT

Truthseeker, FHL and Dazed,<P>I have that same man too. Sometimes I wonder if he hopes I will forget the question or fall asleep before he has to answer. Of course sometimes I think that he is formulating and answer and he has fallen asleep.<P>Just a small rant of my own here. I too have tried to accomidate his odd work schedual, do all the household stuff, keep quiet while he is sleeping, do all the errands, make things smooth for him and I get the all for<BR> Lora , nothing for H line. Do you think we made it too easy for them? Do they then see it as controlling and want out?<BR>Lora