I live out in the thules (that's Norsky for toolies). They are beautiful thules, but one can feel real isolated real fast. TIme to reach out…<P>I've been watching and searching for quite a while now, wondering if anyone else has had to deal with this kind of thing.<P>My husband seems driven in many areas of his life by a need for adulation, that is to have some one 'praise or admire (him) excessively; fawn on (him)'. <P>It's not sexual addiction. He doesn't fit that at all. It leads to sex - he's had dozens of partners (seriously dozens, at least a half dozen in the five years we've been married) but it's more like a combination of Don Juan and Superman. It's the notches on the bedpost that are important, that and being thought to be a Great Guy. He's very charming and will make sure to 'be there' for just about anybody who will stroke his ego. He seems unable to draw the line between appropriate and inappropriate relationships, especially with women.<P>This is very difficult for me to write about. It is embarrassing to admit that, basically, my husband is a slut. But, like most women who earn that moniker, though he is very sexual, with me as well as them, the sex is not the driving force behind all the sleazing around.<P>More embarrassing still to admit that I love him passionately. Too much of my life I have felt like Sylvester's son. I am humiliated by his actions, but I am ashamed of my staying. Somebody give me a paper bag.<P>God, I have to force myself to stay focused. We are in counseling. THe counselor is not a MarriageBuiders disciple, but he's not too far off. My husband has actually (on his own, not through counseling) determined that this behavior just may cost him his marriage and our daughter. (Though he has a son by one of his one-night stands, and since that child is male he's the really valuable one, so that loss is less than it might be.) But, we have yet to actually address it at all.<P>I have been basically applying the concepts espoused by the Harleys. But it's mostly because the things that I have done in the past that have cause dissention or anything else negative relate to his life-style of infidelity, and right now I am so burnt out with all the lies and abuse that even talking about it wearies me. Still, I sit by myself and choke back the tears. We make love and I try to keep enough control that my breathing doesn't give away that I'm crying. I'm crying out of utter desolation. I have been though all of this so much, so many times. I have forgiven and forgiven. I have rebuilt and rebuilt. Now that intellectually I see that he may be ready to become the husband we both deserve, I'm struggling to find the will, the hope, to do it again. Every good thing he does, every kind thing he says, every loving touch draws me back. But this time I can practically hear the squealing tires as my heart applies the brakes - "Ya ain't gonna do this to me again, Sistah!! I seen this dude's act before and it ain't worth sittin' t'rough again!!" I'm not giving up, but I'm pretty tired.<P>I know this isn't the same as what most of you have gone though. And in some ways I feel alienated from you by that. But, man, I'm out here feeling like I'm fighting this war all by myself. I don't dare talk to my friends about it anymore, not if I want a subsequent conversation. They are all up to here, no, <I>here</I> with it.<P>Okay. A little better now. Thanks.

{{{dragantraces}}}:<P>I am so sorry that you are feeling so down. I'm glad the vent let you feel a bit better.<P>I think you and I are in a more similar situation than you might think. I think my H does tend toward sexual addiction (hey, I took one psych class in college, so I think I'm qualified to make the diagnosis!), but so much is similar to what you describe.<P>I, too, am embarrassed by all that I have discovered my husband has done. I always thought he was just a really swell guy, always there for you...and then I realized how many "yous" there were... He so dreadfully wants people to like him and wants them to think he's great. I feel sad that it's not enough that I think he's great. And I wonder if I'm just another woman to him, more foolish than the others because I agreed to marry him.<P>Personally, I envy you that you still feel so passionately in love with yout husband. I have been struggling recently. The lies have taken their toll. He doesn't want out of our relationship, but he doesn't know how to get the massive quantity of attention that he craves outside of illicit relaionships.<P>Most of my friends don't understand why I stay. I have one who is convinced that I need major psychotherapy for what she figures has to be low self esteem causing me to think I can't do any better (she, too, has had a psych class in college--come to think of it, it might have been the same one!).<P>But that's not the case with me, and I'm betting it's not the case with you. I'm pretty sure I could find another man to love who would take care of me and my son. But I committed myself to THIS relationship, and, as Luther said, "Hier stehe ich; ich kann kein anders."<P>Let the tears come here, dragantraces. Listen to your heart and see if it's telling you that it's time to stop this relationship. And if your heart is heavy, but you know you want to make the most of your marriage, know that you're not alone and that the folks here will help you as much as they can. They really are a swell bunch to help so much even though they, too, are in so much pain.<P>All the best to you, dragantraces. I'm pulling for you! --HBC

Wow, a thread that really applies to my case - I have felt that I was part of this and part of that - but not really feeling like my situation was like anyone elses. <P>dragantraces - although my situation isn't EXACTLY like yours in every way and my husband - I don't think has gone quite as far as yours - atleast I don't think so.... I feel the exact same way as you. <P>He is trying, but I am struggling with the thought of trying yet again to get through one of these adventures he seems to need. I also feel like I'm just another one of the ladies - he looses me - wins me back, losses me - wins me back - we have done this dance for 18 years. <P>I an really not sure I want ot do this again - my heart can't take it - that's for sure, it is struggling after the last bomb hit 6 months ago. <P>Know you aren't alone and I understand.... thanks for posting..

Hi dragantraces,<P>Welcome to MarriageBuilders. I hope you will find some help and comfort here.<P>Have you read the section about emotional needs and perhaps done the questionaire with your husband? That's one of the first things my husband and I did and it was very enlightening. My husband's top two needs are to be admired/respected and to have recreational companionship. Those two unfulfilled needs led directly to his affair, I believe.<P>My top needs are for sexual fulfillment and openness/honesty. Therein lies the problem, because our needs cause a conflict. My husband is terribly competitive in any recreational activity. He's a sore loser, doesn't mind cheating and/or lying to win, and is not even a gracious winner.<P>That makes it difficult for me to respect/admire him and also causes me to not want to participate in any recreational activity with him. My lack of admiration/respect for him causes him to withdraw from me sexually, so the openness/honesty part of my needs isn't met either.<P>THEN, this attractive, younger woman begins worshiping him and sharing his interest in sports,etc. Stroking his ego so hard that he gets friction burns, and WHAM, they have an affair, although very briefly.<P>Some investigation might uncover a similar pattern in your relationship and once recognized, you can find a way to overcome it.<P>You will find that you are not so unique in your marital situation here. It seems there is always someone to discuss and share experiences with that knows your situation all to well from their own personal experiences.<P>This is longer than I intended (that happens to me all the time), but I wanted you to know that I can relate to your husband's behavior. I'll be watching for your posts.<P>Best wishes,<P>Peppermint

Mine is similar too, but one area where I'm envious is that at least y'all's husbands have ADMITTED to their affairs. I'm beginning to think that mine is either a pathelogical liar or a chickensh**. I've cornered him into admitting to 3, but I know that there have been more. He won't admit to any of them though (even though his best friends have told me that he has, and there is plenty of other evidence.) I mean, I don't know if he's seeing how much he can get away with or what. At times I think that because I'm trying to work past it (again), he's secretly laughing at me because he got away with it (again). It's like he doesn't have to pay a price - he went out and messed around, and he didn't lose a thing - he got away with it. ARGHHH!!! Sorry, that post brought up some bad feelings (better to vent here than at my H, right?)<P>Anyway, I'll try to help. I can say with 99.9% certainty (still afraid to believe in him just yet) that my H hasn't cheated for a year. One thing, which I took out of the SAA book, is that he has NO time to lead a "secret second life". This takes a willingness on his part, though. Right now, I know where he is at all times. I get receipts for everything. This is an agreement that he and I came to. Also, he quit the job where he met one of the OW, and he's working at a lumber mill that is all men (not realistic for all, kind of like what Dr. H says about moving to another state, but it was a big help.) My H finally admitted that he can't even allow himself to be put in a position to have an A, but that I have to be a part of the prevention (the EN's, and right now, being with him and keeping up with him as much as possible). He knows what he stands to lose, but he is an "attention junkie." And don't rule out sexual addiction - THAT DOES NOT JUST INVOLVE SEX. My H has an appt with a specialist in that area to find out if that's what it is. My H is the same way, he needs tons of attention, from everybody and anybody. At times it makes me sick, because my female associates will come to me and tell me what a nice guy my H is, and part of me is screaming "IF ONLY YOU KNEW!" <P>As far as feeling like a doormat, I think that I can safely say that all of us BS's do. But I think that if your husband is willing to work things out, you need to come to an agreement to where it's IMPOSSIBLE for him to lead this "second life" and continue having affairs (see the SAA book). Don't let anybody else make you feel embarassed or humiliated because of this - like one gal said the first time I ever posted here, "Walk a mile in my shoes, and you'll understand." Hell, I thought the same way about cheaters before it happened to me, and I NEVER dreamed I would stay with the person. But here we are.<P>Keep posting and learning. Somebody here is bound to have some first-hand knowledge of how to deal with things. Good luck!

I mean, I don't know if he's seeing how much he can<BR> get away with or what. At times I think that because I'm trying to work past it (again), he's secretly laughing at<BR> me because he got away with it (again). It's like he doesn't have to pay a price - he went out and messed around,<BR> and he didn't lose a thing - he got away with it. ARGHHH!!! Sorry, that post brought up some bad feelings<BR> (better to vent here than at my H, right?)<BR>_____________________________________________<P>Yep - there now........isn't it frustrating.<BR>

Hi dragonTraces,<P>I felt your post so much. I hurt for you, hon.<P>I have a bad one too. You're not alone here. There are many, unfortunetly.<P>My H had two affairs (EA & PA and PA one night stand) 9 years ago that resulted in two OCs (sons). They're a year apart. My H and I have no children.<P>Now my H is having an affair with the "One Night Stand" woman. He has a family with her and has left me for her. AND the woman is very mean and abusive to me. Never even met her. She simply hates me because I'm married to H.<P>I hope you will find all the emotional support you need here. We're friends and share our hearts and our loss of our dreams here. We help and support one another. I don't think there's any other place like this where you can bare your soul and not feel ashamed or a loss of dignity. <P>The people here have been my saving Grace from God. So many stories and struggles, but we all share one thing in common ... we're spouses who need support and understanding without judgment.<P>I'm so sorry you're feeling this pain. Keep posting and we'll look after you.<P>Prayers to you.<BR>Jo<P><p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 11, 2000).]

Dragantraces:<P>I don't have any useful info for you, but I got the FIRESIGN THEATRE REFERENCE!!!<P>Shoes for Industry,<P>Dazed

I wasn't able to check the board yesterday. (I have an extremely elderly grandmother I care for one day a week, several hours away.) I was kind of relived by not being able to check though. I was a bit afraid that there would be no replies. It was so cool to see "7" in the Replies column!<P><BR><B>HBC~</B><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I always thought he was just a really swell guy, always there for you...and then I realized how many "yous" there were... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Oh, yeah… I’ve said so many times that I’m sick of being “one of the many”. One of my Revenge Scenarios is to get them all into a room… um, maybe I’d rent a hall… Anyway, and show them just how “special” they are. (Letters and e-mails make references to how “special” he makes them feel, of course.)<BR>Once I saw a list he’d written out. Most of them had nothing to indicate last name, and a few were just descriptions. Very special. Interestingly, my name wasn’t on the list. I like to think he doesn’t lump me in with them, but maybe he just forgot me.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He so dreadfully wants people to like him and wants them to think he's great.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>One of the really crazy things about this behavior is that my husband is nearly always well liked by nearly everyone, initially. (One of the potential advantages to being a ‘Conflict/Confrontation Avoider’, as he is, is that you can learn how to be quite charming and charismatic if you do it well. That fits into the Lothario thing really well. ) That is until his Secret Life is revealed.<BR>Of necessity, a major part of the whole charade involves at least implying that he is a long-suffering man dealing with a b-i-itch for a wife. (I am not at all Donna Reed, but I am even less a shrew or a nag or a cold fish. …I’ve always wondered if they question why he stays with me year after year. I don’t think they do, it wouldn’t fit in with their justifications for their <I>own</I> behavior. ) In my heart I always knew that he had to be doing this. People I met through him too often treated me strangely, women in particular. (He told me <I>I</I> made <I>his friends</I> uncomfortable!) I went though years of this stuff before one of them, his then boss’s wife actually, related to me that when she learned that she was to meet me for the first time, she dreaded it, knowing that she wasn’t going to like me. After meeting me she turned to her husband and said, “ How can such a creep be with such a wonderful woman?” I gotta tell you, to hear those words from a woman was like a deliverance. A woman who could ignore the filter so deftly applied by my husband! And she liked me! She liked me the way people I met on my own did! Last year, one of his kid brothers actually spent a few hours with me without my husband being present. He turned to me and said, “Wow, your nothing like what (your husband) makes you out to be.” This brother no longer looks at my husband as a role model. If he'd treated me well, both of these people could still respect him, and maybe, just maybe, they'd like him. (Now, if they'd just say it to his face!!)<P>Everything else you wrote could have come straight from me. But don’t envy me anything. While I do love my husband, it is the hardest thing I do. Sometimes it feels like such a burden that when I am alone I just scream, “I want out!!! <I>I want out!!!! <B>It’s all just got to stop!!!</I></B>” No, don't envy me. It pretty much sucks for all of us.<P>By the way regarding your quote, Ich spreche nicht Deutsch aber Ich verstehe daß! (please forgive any errors!)<P><BR><B>genesforme~</B><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> He is trying, but I am struggling with the thought of trying yet again to get through one of these adventures he seems to need. I also feel like I'm just another one of the ladies - he looses me - wins me back, losses me - wins me back - we have done this dance for 18 years. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh, you are much more kind than I!!<BR>“Ladies” don’t [censored] other women’s husbands!! Just last evening our counselor was saying that he believes there is value in not prettying up language simply to prevent the guilty from being uncomfortable. He has a very strong religious background, so his terminology is a bit different from mine, but it’ll do: these women/men who have sex with married men/women are whores. If they got paid, at least they’d be hookers who are up-front about what they do. If anyone is offended, I’m not even remotely sorry or apologetic. If you don’t want to be called a thief, don’t steal stuff!!! I do believe that if one has exhibited this kind of bad judgment in the past and has grown to see it for what it is and <I>ended the behavior</I>, it should be put in the past and allowed to stay there. But until the change takes place, you are what you are. I suspect that each of <I>them</I> would say the same thing about any woman who had sex with “their” man, including his wife!<P>The notion of this being an unbreakable pattern is sickening. We have 24 years behind us, though only 5 married. (Long bizarre story!) I even left for 5 years, but believed it when he came back and wanted to “Do it right this time.” He keeps on doing the same old thing, and I keep falling for it. Everytime is just enough different for me to be taken in. I am so apprehensive that this time is just another summer re-run… but this is the first time he’s been an active participant in counseling and he hasn’t been denying, dishonest, or defensive. He seems to be truly present. (I just hope that’s true after the next session. Counselor says my husband needs to have a session alone and that he might be pretty angry when he walks out the door. Deep breath!!)<P><BR><B>Peppermint~</B><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Welcome to MarriageBuilders. I hope you will find some help and comfort here. <BR>Have you read the section about emotional needs and perhaps done the questionaire with your husband?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks for the words of welcome! (And, yes, I have read NSR’s very thoughtful posts for newcomers. Very helpful!)<BR>I’ve been lurking out here for months. I have read every word on the MarriageBuilders site written by the Drs. Harley, I own every book, even though much of it is repetitious. I have shown them to my husband and told him that I have a very high respect for the Harleys and believe that this is the most realistic approach to marriage I’ve ever seen. I mentioned that he might the check out the books. While he wasn’t negative about it and even though he has seen me reading them and seen them laying about, he has yet to pick one up.<BR>There is not a chance, yet, that my husband would spend any time on something like these books, let alone do any questionnaires if the suggestion comes from me. This is one of the most critical reasons for engaging a counselor, as Dr. Harley says, a <I>Coach</I>. But we aren’t close to that part yet (real soul-searching).<P>Your comments about your husband’s need for recreational companionship being high while being a poor sport and so making you disinclined to be that companion struck a chord.<BR>My husband says he wants me to participate in the recreational activities he finds so important, but, while he is never a poor sport, when I accompany him he tends to leave me out. It is, at best parallel play, but it’s not togetherness. I find anymore that every invitation feels more like a challenge, and it’s pass/fail. If I’m good enough he may ask again. If he feels held back because of my inexperience, it’s over. Oh, and if there is a another guy around I am absolutely a third wheel. His expectations for me are so far beyond what he will accept in others (men or women) that the concept of “Fun” goes out the window. In fact, with other women the less capable they are the more “helpful’ and ‘understanding’ he gets to be. This certainly is another aspect of all this I’m really working on: Dear Husband, can’t we come up with activities we both like, ones where we are starting on a level playing field? We’ll see.<P><BR><B>Carolina Belle2~</B><BR>I know it wasn’t your intent, but the chickesh!t comment cracked me up!! Thanks!<P>Ah!! The infamous Secret Second Life!! This phrase was the clincher for me regarding MarriageBuilders. I’ve been using it for years (of course, my husband has been denying it for years!!) and was knocked out when I ran across all Dr. Harley says about it. Yes, yes, yes!!!<BR>Within any relationship, each person has the right to whatever information is necessary to make decisions about their own life. In a marriage, everything one spouse does has an impact on the other, whether the spouse is aware of the action or not. Therefore each spouse is <I>entitled</I> and <I>obligated</I> to know everything the other is doing without exception. “Privacy” in marriage tends to be a euphemism for “secrecy”. Don’t get me wrong, I want personal privacy for both of us – we each use the bathroom, even just for brushing teeth, privately (though we do often shower together); we each open our own mail; while either of us may do the laundry, we stay out of one another’s dressers. (I almost said ‘drawers’, but had to let that one go!) There is a huge difference between courteous/respectful privacy and the distortion of the word that enables one to screw off.<BR>Additionally, this idea of being humiliated or feeling embarrassed hearkens back to this as well. I am so tired of meeting people only to find out later that either they are another of his women (maybe one just being groomed), or they (man or woman) know about his stuff and accept it (even envy it!!) I should know more about him and his life than anybody. I should never be put in the position of having people snicker or whisper about me behind their hands, even figuratively. Another area requiring work.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> At times it makes me sick, because my female associates will come to me and tell me what a nice guy my H is, and part of me is screaming "IF ONLY YOU KNEW!"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>We went on a hokey little cruise put on by his (very big name) employer a couple of weeks ago. (I mean, does anybody really care <I>that</I> much about Bill Gate’s house!!) A woman, well, girl really, came up and introduced herself. After a strange little conversation she finally understood that I was my husband’s wife (he’s married??!) She said, “Oh, (Your Husband) is such a nice guy!” For the first time in my life I didn’t bite my tongue at those words. I said, “No, he's not. Not really.” It felt pretty good.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And don't rule out sexual addiction - THAT DOES NOT JUST INVOLVE SEX.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Below is an excerpt from the following link: <A HREF="http://www.sexaddictionhelp.com/general.html#begins" TARGET=_blank>Sexual Addiction</A>.<BR>This does a good job describing the very important distinction between <I>sexual</I> addiction, which is <B>not</B> something I see at all in my husband, and is described in much more (boring) depth on that site; and <I>sex and love</I> addiction, which is very different and very much the kind of thing my husband exhibits.<P>“<B>Sex and Love Addiction</B><BR>A distinction has been made between sex addiction and what is referred to as sex and love addiction. The latter has to do with an addictive pattern of establishing love relationships with specific people, where the person and the relationship, as well as sex with the person, are all part of the appeal to the addict. While these same elements are normal in a healthy love relationship, sex and love addicts can never find fulfillment and permanence in any of the love relationships they begin. They keep seeking satisfaction in another relationship but find it empty, demanding or anxiety-provoking instead.<BR>Sex and love addicts may have several love relationships with different people going on at the same time or they may pass serially from one to the next, leaving each when the initial "love high" wears off. Or they may have a major love relationship, such as a marriage, complete with home, children and other signs of permanence, but keep returning periodically to one or more former relationships or create secret relationships with new people.<BR>Sex addiction, by contrast, usually is a preoccupation with sexual arousal and sexual release which often has little to do with who the person is and requires no relationship. On the contrary, to the sex addict, what counts is the charge he or she gets from the image, whether it's a stranger spotted in a car or on a street corner, or stimulating body parts, an erotic picture, or the addict's own fantasy.<BR>Then there are many who exhibit the characteristics of both a sex addict and a sex and love addict. Regardless of how it manifests, however, the addiction progresses in much the same way, always leaving a trail of problems and losses. And, by the same token, the solution to whatever form the addiction takes, the work to be done to change the behavior, is quite similar.”<P><BR><B>Resilient~</B><BR>How nice of your to respond! You know, I cross my fingers for you every time I log on here!<BR>I agree with you about the site. For the most part, this is an incredible assemblage of kindness and wisdom.<P>The whole question of children and affairs is just impossible.<BR>My daughter, 13, is devastated; completely disillusioned by the way her father treats me. (And her, for that matter.)<BR>On the other hand, just two weeks ago I did a little 2-day/1200+ mile trip to pick up my husband's 12-year-old son - to live with us permanently. This kid is also the result of basically a one-night stand, during the 5 year gap in our relationship. (Fortunately, my husband had a vasectomy after that fiasco.) This kid’s life has been dreadful, and he has been a big bone of contention in our marriage. His being here is a nightmare. His presence just may break our marriage all by itself, regardless of anything else.<BR> <BR>I have to say, the boy’s mother is potentially certifiable and is a complete troll (Ya gotta wonder, so many of these “babes” are way at the “Less Attractive” end of the bell-curve one way or another!), but she stays out of my life. Totally ignores her son, but at least I don’t have to deal with her, either. Do you suppose I might hear something from her when we go to court, at my insistence, to seek child support from her for the next 6 years? Money, money, money money… <BR>If there was even a hint of harassment, any of the stuff you’ve been put through, somebody would be in a world of hurt some kind of way, and I don’t mean me. I do not believe in accommodating evil people or crazy people. (Husband excepted, I guess!!) Nor do I believe what goes around comes around. Nope. The Bad Guys only get their comeuppance when the Good Guys make it happen. I understand your concerns regarding retaliation, and I certainly respect that. There certainly is an element of danger to be considered. I just know that I couldn’t tolerate being directly abused and threatened by some complete no-brow low-life who’d already turned my life upside down. If I were in your shoes, Miss Ma’am would be afraid to open her door for fear of seeing the Pierce County Sheriff/Tacoma PD or whoever at her door <I>again</I>.<BR>I know most of us do have those Revenge Scenarios we create and embellish with each new slap, but when the cheesy losers cross the line of legality they simultaneously open a door for retribution. Not from you, but from society. As a semi-civilised people, we have agreed that her actions warrant <I>our</I> taking action against her. She is a threat to all of us. I understand that you have to do what you need to in your own life, and I admit that your decision may be the wisest.<P>Maybe it’s just because this whole infidelity thing gets winked at so much that my ire is aroused.<BR>Cheating (especially by husbands - Poor Baby!) is socially pretty okay,<BR>being cheated upon (especially for wives – she didn’t Take Care of her husband!) is a sign of your failure,and<BR>to have an affair with a married person is coated with a film of glamour (The Undemanding But Oooh! So Hot Mistress!, or -Ohhh! Sweet Unrequited Love!, or Ah-h! The Mysterious Backdoor Man!) Uggghhhh! <P><B>Dazed and Confused</B><BR>Raw-raw-raw!!! Georgie Tirebiter and MoreScience High! Rocky Rococo! Edna Farber!<P>I had to check your profile to get a hint of your age. No surprises there!!! <P>Thanks!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by dragantraces (edited July 13, 2000).]

Hey Dragantraces,<P>I wasn't going to do it, but changed my mind. <P>I have an appointment with a Detective on Monday morning @ 9:00a in Purdy (on the Penninsula). I'm taking the evidence, tapes and hatemail, along with my documentation of when things occured.<P>Gosh, I feel it's the right thing to do but, I'm so scared of her doing something horrid to me. The things that cross my mind are ... her having me beat-up or worse, setting my house on fire or messing with my car.<P>Well, at least there will be a paper trail and the police know who to look for if anything happens. <P>On June 16th, after we all listened to the newest tape, my counselor told my H she wants me to file something legal, then when my H walked me out to my car he said "do what you have to legally, I'm so sorry for this".<P>Yeah, yeah, yeah ... so sorry that he is still with her even tho she's such a scary, mental, abusive, nutcase. Guess whatever she's doing to him in bed is enough to make up for her little quirks.(sarcastic)<P>Wish me luck...<BR>Jo

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Resilient:<BR>Hey Dragantraces,<P>I wasn't going to do it, but changed my mind. <P>I have an appointment with a Detective on Monday morning @ 9:00a in Purdy (on the Penninsula). I'm taking the evidence, tapes and hatemail, along with my documentation of when things occured.<P>Gosh, I feel it's the right thing to do but, I'm so scared of her doing something horrid to me. The things that cross my mind are ... her having me beat-up or worse, setting my house on fire or messing with my car.<P>Well, at least there will be a paper trail and the police know who to look for if anything happens. <P>On June 16th, after we all listened to the newest tape, my counselor told my H she wants me to file something legal, then when my H walked me out to my car he said "do what you have to legally, I'm so sorry for this".<P>Yeah, yeah, yeah ... so sorry that he is still with her even tho she's such a scary, mental, abusive, nutcase. Guess whatever she's doing to him in bed is enough to make up for her little quirks.(sarcastic)<P>Wish me luck...<BR>Jo<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><B>Jo</B><BR>I would think that if she was going to stop on without being forced to it, she'd have done it by now. You know, there is a risk no matter which course of action you decide to take. If you let it ride, it could simply be sending the message that what she's doing is acceptible. Some people are truly so out of touch that their, well, minds I guess you'd say, work that way. That's a part of the reason for the changes in the Domestic Violence laws here in WA. When the state, at the insistence of the people, demanded that abusers be arrested, there was a drop in the number of spousal abuse incidents, particularly <I>repeat</I> calls. These bozos, the abusers, tended to explain the change in their actions by saying things like, "I didn't know it was really wrong. And when the cops used to come out and tell me to knock it off, I didn't think they really meant it. Not until I had to spend the weekend in jail!" They had to be figuratively smacked around a bit themselves before they could figure it out. ("Uh… duh… I get it now! You guys mean I'm not s'posed to beat her up no more! Gorsh, thanks Officer. Um… d'ya s'pose you help me with these stringy thingies on my shoes, too?)<P>This isn't very easy to say, and I know it's unpleasant for you to hear, but if Steve isn't taking serious steps to stop her, he's is sending her the message that it's okay with him. Perhaps even that he wants her to do this. I don't mean to imply that that is his <I>intent</I>, but that could easily be the effect. It's a good thing, I believe, that he was there to hear your counselor's advice. Maybe he will be inspired to take some action himself.<BR>Of course, it's not likely to be what she does to him in bed, nor is it the child (if that were the case I suspect he'd be in court seeking custody) but it <I>is</I> something. I know you have probably taken yourself to the brink and back trying to figure out just what this whole thing is about. And I think you might take that up (again) alone with your counselor if you and Steve get closer to reconciliation. You must have confidence that whatever has been going on in his mind that allows him to be with her and to allow him to overlook her behavior toward you has been dealt with. Anybody can go through periods of recklessness, but you have to be able to trust that your partner is going to cover your back. <P>Hopefully, the Purdy cops can give you some contacts or advice on what you might do to protect yourself in a practical sense as well as a legal one. (Maybe sometime instead of visiting her, they'll be picking her up for an extended stay at the lovely facilities the State has provided for women like her right there in Purdy!) Is there someone you can stay with or who can stay with you if need be? Can you garage your car? Do you have outdoor security lights?<P>You know, Jo, your decision to protect yourself cannot make her do anything. If she now chooses to jump off the deep end, it is still on her head, not yours. And if she flips out far enough as to actually try to make good on threats, she really is too dangerous to ignore or to just cross your fingers. Eventually she'd do it anyway, as long as she perceives as you The Other Woman.<P>Jo, you <I>are</I> doing the right things. You seem to have found a path that is taking you away from the madness. I know it's a long, faint trail with an incredible number of forks and wrong turns and deadends, but you have found it. When you get detoured you <I>can</I> find your way back to it. You are taking care of yourself, you are being An Adult. You are thinking and then acting, not just feeling and then acting out. This will carry you through, regardless of the choices Steve makes. {i]You[/i] will be a success story. Strong, confident women are beautiful. <I>Absolutely beautiful</I>! <P><p>[This message has been edited by dragantraces (edited July 15, 2000).]

dragantraces:<P>(I really like that name, BTW. I think you should use it if ever you change your mind and decide to open that business.)<P>Your H and mine sound more and more alike. Everybody loves (H) when they first meet him. It's only after they get to know him that many find him grating. And for every one that starts avoiding him, he finds two to woo.<P>I don't know what the answer is. Every time I think it's about time for me to move on over to the Recovery board, BANGO! we have a new revelation that lands me squarely on my butt again. If you figure it out, would you share with me?<P>Hang in there, dragantraces. --HBC

Please don't take offense, but why do you all stay with your husbands? I am trying to decide what to do. Your situations seem like mine.<P>Thanks in advance. --Ripped

Ripped, <P>I haven't made the decision to stay yet. One thing I have come to realize from this site is the grieving and recover process of this situation and how long it really takes to move through it. I didn't want ot make any drastic decisions from just emotion. <P>We are in counseling now and have the best team working with us, but the damage is bad and even the counselor says he can't beleive I have stayed this long. <P>I have specific needs from my husband this time that if he can't do what I've asked, then there is no hope because he will repeat it and I CAN'T do this again. So we are working through issues, my husband is learning from the counselor, and I am healing and growing stronger - it's been seven months since discovery. <P>We have 18 years invested in our our marriage. <P>

Dragantraces, <P>Wow! I have been avoiding the sex addiction sites - guess a 'burying my head in the sand' thing, but went today via your link - <P>The information was my husband - exactly! <P>We were getting to this point in our counseling and the counselors have been trying to help me understand how I fit inot this addiction - now I do. <P>But how do you help a person that doesn't believe this is his problem? That is where we are at now. <P>The depressing thing is it seems until they are ready to admit the problem, they will repeat the pattern and this has been the story of our life - it seems the only solution is to leave him... <P>I don't know - I have a call into his counselor to talk about this further - up till now we haven't addressed my H's childhood, but I think it's time the counselor knows everything I do about it. Maybe it will help him in his therapy. <P>Thanks for posting the link to the site.

Genesforme~<BR>I don't know what one can do to help someone else alter this behavior. I do know that denying it exists or that it is important or that it can be changed is the usual tactic of people who, in fact, don't want to change. And if one buys into this specious argument, you become that politely re-named co-conspiritor, The Enabler.<P>I find myself in this really untenable situation. My husband has finally admitted that he may actually have a problem. He has opened his eyes to the fat that he is on the verge of losing his home life, wife and daughter anyway. He is sincerely striving to change his behavior toward me and to save his marriage. However, (you knew there'd be a "however", didn't you?) he has enveloped himself so much in that that he doesn't have to address the basic problem. I still see the trail of junk that he has always had to keep the line of communication open to these women. I am quite convinced that since he has made the choice to not actually have sex with anyone else he hasn't done it. But there's plenty going on to keep all the bases covered, 'just in case', you know? I remain steadfastly committed to my marriage and to keeping my eyes open.

That's where I have been for years - always with my eyes open - this time, he was able to keep it absolutely secret for a year - so each time he has just learned new ways of decieving me.<P>Like you - I think - the 'watch-guard' position gets very exhausting and I just don't want the job anymore....I want a normal, equal relationship that I don't have to monitor every hour of the day. <P>That's why maybe it's time to let it go - I just don't know...