I know the subject of “trust” comes up often in marriages where infidelity has left it’s ugly scars. I read some very helpful books this past week at the retreat I went to. I would also like to recommend two of these books that could really be helpful to many of you. One was titled “Torn Asunder” by Dave Carder and the other one was “The Myth of the Greener Grass” by J. Allan Peterson. (Both are available at amazon.com)<P>In the book by Peterson, this issue of trust was brought out in a way that I had never seen before. I wanted to share a brief passage here that might spark some good discussion; or at least provoke some insightful thinking for “whom ever “ may need it at this time. It does have a bit of a spiritual overtone, but hopefully that won’t offend anyone. In one of the chapters that describes the nightmare a pastor and his wife went through with his infidelity, and were eventually restored, he writes this about ‘trust’:<P> “We’re really not called to trust one another. There’s no one I can totally trust. Everybody is capable of letting me down or betraying me, and I am capable of betraying other people. We’re called to trust the One who will never betray us, never let us down. But we’re called to love one another. If our relationship is based on trust, then the moment that trust is broken the relationship is broken. So I trust God and love my wife. She trusts God and loves me. And if she lets me down, I’m going to continue to lover her anyway because that is my commitment.”<P>I thought this was pretty insightful....and wanted to share it with you all.<P><BR>

You know, NoMas, the passage from the book describes what I have learned in this whole mess, much more eloquently than I could.<P>I've always trusted God, but I trusted my H, too. Others as well. I have grieved the loss of trust greatly. Actually maybe more acutely than the betrayal itself, because this trust thing took on a life of its own that affected all my relationships. I came to realize in a fallen world, you really can not trust a fellow sinner or fallible human, whatever you want to label it. That was a huge life lesson, and really not one I liked ONE BIT!<P>But it is reality and it has drawn me closer to my walk with God.<P>I've read Torn Assunder, but not the other book you mentioned. <P>Try the Heart of Commitment by Scott Stanley (had a chapter about the greener grass) and Love Life For Every Married Couple by Dr. Ed Wheat. The Marriage Builder by Larry Crabb is a hard read (at least for me, maybe because it prodded or challenged me in ways my human nature took issue with. As a Christian, it didn't cut you any slack in your responsibilities in a marriage.<P>Keep reading, thinking, praying and loveing, NoMas. <P>

This week-end I heard a different definition of trust. Retrouvaille (like Marriage Encounter) defines trust as: sharing what is going on inside of me right now. It is the decision to share feelings (in essence to show you who I am). <P>Trust is a two-way street: it includes trusting and being trustworthy. "Trusting" is the definition above (the decision to share my feelings) and being "trustworthy" is to make it safe when someone (like my spouse) shares their feelings.<P>To believe in someone to make wise decisions, to handle things correctly, to not get involved in a wrong relationship... those are all defined not as trust, but as "confidence". For example, to believe your mate will do what they say (such as arrive on time), is to have confidence in them to do that.<P>So, just an interesting way to look at "trust".

One note of caution to anyone buying from Amazon: it's really hard to get them to stop recommending infidelity books once you buy one from them.<P>I made the mistake of buying a couple from them right after D-Day. I didn't want to order from here then--I was afraid I'd get a wash of unwanted junk mail and it turned out just the opposite. It took a nasty e to Amazon to make it so I didn't log on to three infidelity quick picks every time.<P>As for the books themselves, thank you for the recommendations. Trust is an issue for us and I'm trying to get there from here...<P>Good luck to you, NoMas1 --HBC

NoMas,<P>This post really got me thinking. And, I will definitely check out this book.<P>Maybe this is exactly what I was trying to explain to my counselor about trust....a concept he couldn't seem to grasp. Of course, it was probably more my inability to explain what I was trying to say, than his inability to *understand*.<P>Basically, we were talking about what I needed from my H (following his infidelity). And, my counselor was very surprised that I had not listed TRUST as one of my top needs. He questioned me on this. Well, like I said I tried to explain it, but fumbled with WHY I didn't feel trust was *necessary*. It still, for me, boils down to the fact that TRUST shouldn't be something that needs asking for. Also, like your book pointed out, it may be *too much* to ask of someone else. I trust myself and God. I don't believe I need to trust in anyone else. I would like to believe that my H was honorable and doing the *right* things at all times...but, he's his own person. I can no more *make* or force my trust on him, than he can on me. He's going to do what he wants to do---the only person that can stop him from making a bad decision is himself. <P>A WS does not betray their spouse because their spouse trusts them (I know sounds ridiculous!)....rather, I believe they lack the discipline to trust themselves...to look beyond what they *need* and trust in what God would approve. <P>Did this make any sense at all???? I guess what I'm saying is that I need my spouse to trust in himself to do the right thing. <P>Yeah, what the book said .<P>Peace, ~Marie

NoMas..<P>How very interesting for me to come here and see and issue on trust. Because trust or lack of has been quite an issue right now in our recovery state.<P>I have to say that the book is correct in saying that we should only trust Our Lord. He will never let us down, nor does He break promises.<P>But, there is a place and time where "trust" does come into play. Perhaps it is what Sifted said, "confidence" is another way to look at trust. confidence that your spouse isn't going to take what you hold special and give it to another. confidence that your spouse is going to come home with a paycheck.. or is that trust? <P>There is something we do call trust in a relationship. We trust our friends would keep our secrets, we trust our friends to be our friends. we trust our mates to go out into the world and bring home a paycheck. We trust our parents to keep us safe. We trust trust trust. I think we have the natural instinct to need to feel safe. WE need to feel that our mates are telling us the truth, and doing the honest thing when we aer not around. It is something like children. You need to teach them that just because you arenot around it does not give them permission to disobey you. It is also called self disipline and be trustworthy.<P>When my child lies and breaks the trust i had for them,,, my relationship is not over with her. I cannot agree the relationship is over jsut because "trust" is broken. I thnk that we become wary of the person who has broken that commitment to us.<P>But, when it comes to making "love" or "lust" with another person that is way a different level of 'trust". When a person makes love with their spouse that is the most vulnerable space in which two people can be. It is also the only time in which man and woman are truely one.. one in mind, spirit and body... WE are emotional beings and this is the betrayal. The person who we pledged to love and honor and obey and thru better or worse, our friend, our confident has taken all that they are, all that we are and tossed them into the wind for a lusty rolll in the hay. With that roll in the hay becomes lies, deciet, lies, lies, lies, damage beyond all damage.<P>All of this comes down to the fact that we are to be each others back up. Walk in the world with "our backs to each other" meaning and eye out for each othe at all times. It is called walking in covenant and in unity. The bible says we should be "christ like" in all that we do.. and being able to trust our spouse, I feel, comes into that catagory.<P>Does any of this make sense? <P>Just my humble opinion<P>Thanks for the post..<BR>mercy

"Trust" certainly is a vital and important aspect of a marriage union. There is no denying this fact. And even after a betrayal, 'trust' is an area that needs to be built back, earned...restored....<P>I think the balance that the book brought out for me is this: You can't put all your 'eggs' in the basket of trust. I kind of see it as one of those 'rope-bridges' that stretch across a canyon in one of those Indianna Jones movies. The bridge represents 'trust'. One end is tied to God, the other to your spouse. You KNOW the one on God's end will never, ever break. And you certainly hope that the one on your spouses end will not break either. But IF...it does, it does not mean you are forever destroyed. You still have the other end tied to God...and He will keep you from falling to your death. (Hope that was not to silly of a word picture)<P>One of the things I have had to tell my girls growing up who have been hurt when friends "told" secrets on them is don't ever tell something that you are not prepared to have made known. It's not a matter of not being able to trust a friend....rather, it's an awareness....that sometimes people will disappoint you, and you need to guard what it is that you trust people with.<P>In a marriage union, I would think a husband/wife should feel safe to trust each other with their hearts. But as I have discovered, even the most well intentioned person can 'drop the ball' and bring much hurt.

I have posted many times that one day I realized that it really didn't "matter" if I trusted H or not.<P>My trust, or lack, did not have any power to make him trustworthy. That was only up to him.<P>On one hand that is a little unsettling, because of course we all like to control our outcomes. <P>However, I found great comfort in this truth. It allowed me to go ahead and trust my H, based on congruent words and actions (or have confidence in) without being concerned if the trust was based in fact.<P>This also touches on the idea that we are only responsible for what we put INTO a relationship, not the outcome.<P>This idea freed me from many of my thoughts of how my H "should" be feeling or acting and put the emphasis on my own responsibilites regardless of the effort, or lack he was putting into the relationship.<P>I love this deep thought provoking stuff!

I had read TORN ASUNDER and decided, as NoMas wrote, that I would trust God & leave it in His hands whether I would trust my husband again. But then, I realized that even if I thought I took trust out of the equation, it seemed like every thing & every day required nothing but trust, or confidence or hope--he'd not leave me, he'd not contact her, he'd love me.<P>I think one of the things that helped me was to live each day, one at a time, rather than live in the future (as I had) or dwell in the past. Eventually as more "todays" go well, you can think more easily about tomorrow and that leads to trust.<P>Also being on a good anti-anxiety medication for a time can be a good idea .

NoMas,<P>Have you personalized what this means to your own marriage?<P>Are you thinking your wife is called to love you even though you let her down?<P>Or/And are you thinking of it as you need to trust God to work things for the good in your marriage, because your wife by herself may let you down in recovery?<P>You have expressed disappointment in your wife's reactions in the past and you hint of the same now. Does this concept speak to the need of boldly taking action (with God's help) on your own, DESPITE of your wife's cooperation or interaction?<P>Or does it speak to you differently?

FHL...<P>I am still in the process of digesting this. I knew the issue of trust is a huge one in situations like many of us are dealing with. I have even heard my own wife express the inability to ever trust me again.<BR> <BR>I just thought it was good 'stuff' to ponder. I am 'trusting' God...that He can cause this whole ordeal to work out for the good. I really don't want to 'throw' this statement or book at my wife to read, but I believe that it really could be helpful to her and to others in her place. <P>I see windows of oppurtunity that do seem to open for brief moments with her that I will use for my advantage to make ammends to her. She will be home this afternoon...and so the roller coaster ride will continue.<P>I'm holding on tight.<BR>:-)<P>Blessings...<BR>

I see what you mean NO Mas.. i understand this better now. I apologize if i seemed abrupt and not easy to understand. <P>Your right. there are many pieces to that bridge with marriage in the middle. Trust isnt all there is. <P>anyhow, i do not post a whole lot but i enjoy your analogies to this horrid world of infidelity.<P> mercy