Each time my husband has left me to move in with another woman, he keeps in touch long-distance. He asks me to forgive and I do.<P>However, when I make a decision that goes against what he wants to do--I'm on his list.<BR>His rationale is since I did what I wanted to do then he is going to do what he wants to do regardless of how I feel about it.<P>I told him I don't like it when he comes home late from work then leave a few hours later. He returns home at two and three o' clock in the morning. He says he wants to "feel his manhood."<P>He says he is not going to stop.<P>Why won't he just divorce me and leave me for good? I find it hard to believe he stays with me because he loves me.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Love hurts no one.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AGoodPhrend:<BR><B>Why won't he just divorce me and leave me for good? I find it hard to believe he stays with me because he loves me.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Why should he leave you when you put up with it? They do these things because they can.<P>

Having been in your shoes, I can understand how difficult it is for you to quit being so accomodating to your H.<P>Popeye is right, he will keep doing it until he feels he is going to lose you. Many men do this because they can, because they know their wives will let them come back. The problem with this is that the H never gets to experience the reality of being without you.<P>It's kind of like going on a vacation ever now and then and then coming home to your loving wife. <P>Eventually even you will get tired of this.<BR>Then what will you do? By then all your self-esteem will be gone and you will be just a shell, going through the motions of your life. <P>You need to do something. Most likely your have already tried to supply what EN your H is lacking, but if you haven't then you might try Plan A for a while. <P>My thinking is that you have accomodated him long enough and you probably ought to throw him out and set up a Plan B until he has his fill of "getting his manhood."<P>What ever you decide we're here for you.<P>Buffy

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by popeye:<BR><B> Why should he leave you when you put up with it? They do these things because they can.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><P>------------------<BR>Love hurts no one.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by popeye:<BR><B> Why should he leave you when you put up with it? They do these things because they can.<P></B>popeye...ouch (smile) thanks for being honest.<P><P>------------------<BR>Love hurts no one.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by buffy:<BR><B>Having been in your shoes, I can understand how difficult it is for you to quit being so accomodating to your H.<P>Popeye is right, he will keep doing it until he feels he is going to lose you. Many men do this because they can, because they know their wives will let them come back. The problem with this is that the H never gets to experience the reality of being without you.<P>It's kind of like going on a vacation ever now and then and then coming home to your loving wife. <P>Eventually even you will get tired of this.<BR>Then what will you do? By then all your self-esteem will be gone and you will be just a shell, going through the motions of your life. <P>You need to do something. Most likely your have already tried to supply what EN your H is lacking, but if you haven't then you might try Plan A for a while. <P>My thinking is that you have accomodated him long enough and you probably ought to throw him out and set up a Plan B until he has his fill of "getting his manhood."<P>What ever you decide we're here for you.<P>Buffy</B>...thanks for the vacation insight. I have never given my husband a reason (long enough) to feel the threat of losing me for good. A few years ago, I stood by my decision and asked him to leave. It took me nine out eleven years to get to that point. He moved to another city, but visited monthly on the weekends. It wasn't until a few weeks ago, he told me the main reason for being persistent is because he saw some document where I went back to my maiden name. I shall change my strategy and check out Plan A. Thank you so much for your time, buffy.<P>

I wasn't trying to be hurtful, but real. We all play a part in our own dramas. So many people walk in a yard with a "Beware of Dog" sign then ask why they are bitten. Many of them will return to the same yard and the same dog and wonder why he did it again. The one thing I learned in counseling is that when we do these things, it's because the behaviour serves us in some way. We have to find out what need is being fulfilled and try to find a more positive way of achieving the same effect.<P>Your H WILL continue doing this unless and until you make it known unequivocably that it will no longer be tolerated. <P>Yes, love hurts no one, but you can love someone without risking your health or self-respect or compromising your morals.

Popeye, thanks for writing. The "ouch" was in response to the sting of reality that set in when I read your response. No offense was taken at all. <P>You have inspired me to revisit a haunting question...why do I put up with this? I really do intend to find the answer. <P>One thing (among several) is since 1995 I have remained true to a declaration I made to him that I wasn't going to allow him to handle the financial affairs of the house. <P>I used to have an "Edith Bunker" attitude and was submissive to my husband inspite of his behavior. My husband never verbally abused me, but his emotional abuse was equally devastating. I pointed out to him we had nothing to show for good money we made as a two-income family. I told him he was so busy trying to play "big shot" that our family lacked any sign of progress.<P>Since that time, we have bought a house, but he is dissatisfied because he is not the primary and I vehemently insist he will not pay a mortgage note because I don't trust him with that responsibility. He pays all other bills and shows proof of the timely payments. I did not ask for proof even though I have money set aside in case he becomes vindictive about my "control" and decides not to remit payment.<P>It's funny you used the word "tolerated." Several years ago I used the exact word. His response to that was I talked to him as if he were a child...as if I were talking to one of kids. So, he used that discussion to justify continuing his affair. <P>Nevertheless, I have not allowed him to act up "in peace". I also believe I shouldn't have to accept disrespect or endangerment of my health because of his infidelity.<P>Please know you did not offend me at all. Thanks, again, for taking out time to write.<P>Much Success to you.<P>------------------<BR>Love hurts no one.<p>[This message has been edited by AGoodPhrend (edited July 19, 2000).]

Go to Plan B. Do not pass "Go," do not collect $200. Go directly to Plan B.<P>My thoughts on this situation is that enough is enough. He is not giving you the chance to implement Plan A, because he is moving out on you all of the time. <P>belld

[QUOTE]Originally posted by popeye:<BR>[B] "So many people walk in a yard with a "Beware of Dog" sign then ask why they are bitten. Many of them will return to the same yard and the same dog and wonder why he did it again."<P>What you say makes perfect sense. However let's look at it in a different light. <P>Maybe there wasn't a "Beware of Dog" sign in the first place. When you return you are told there is no dog and still no sign. So you trust what you are being told, yet get bitten again. Yes there is a point where you just don't go in the yard. This is where I'm at but continue to get the advice (Don't make any decsions yet...It's still too soon). At what point do you say "Good bye. I won't enter the yard any longer sign or no sign...dog or no dog"?<P>The unanswered question is. Why don't the H's leave? Why keep coming back and giving the old "I want to be with you" speach. If they love us the way they say, then maybe they'd evaluate what they want and do it. Leave already. Stop the suffering already. They are only hurting us more each time. I never thought any human being (betrayed spouses) could take the beatings we have and still wake up in the morning. Sometimes I think if it weren't for my baby girl my heart would have failed me by now and I wouldn't be here to talk with any of you. <P>So the underlying question? How do you know when your time is up and your new life begins? LSM<P><p>[This message has been edited by lostsoulmate (edited July 19, 2000).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by belldandy:<BR><B>Go to Plan B. Do not pass "Go," do not collect $200. Go directly to Plan B.<P>My thoughts on this situation is that enough is enough. He is not giving you the chance to implement Plan A, because he is moving out on you all of the time. <P>belld</B>I smiled when I read the beginning of your reply because I quipped the same words to others to express the severity of a matter. Implementing Plan B may be the solution, but I want to exhaust every conceivable opportunity before I close the door of my heart on my husband. I don't want to leave room for his racket of recalling my words as the reason for his action. Whenever he left (during one of his long distance calls) he reminded me I told him to leave. I really want to LET him leave without a word from me because I don't plan on allowing him back into my life if he does. Meanwhile, we talk about our present status. The first time he left me I didn't know he was gone until I came home one evening from work and noticed his things were gone. <P>Since that time, whenever he changed his schedule I would ask him to account for his time. His answers were evasive so I told him to get out. That was right up his alley because he WAS in an affair at the time I asked his whereabouts. <P>So, this is why I'm choosing to LET him leave without prompting from me. Meanwhile, no issue goes unaddressed. This may not be the best option, but I need to see if it will work.<P>------------------<BR>Love hurts no one.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lostsoulmate:<BR><B>[QUOTE]Originally posted by popeye:<BR>[B] "So many people walk in a yard with a "Beware of Dog" sign then ask why they are bitten. Many of them will return to the same yard and the same dog and wonder why he did it again."<P>What you say makes perfect sense. However let's look at it in a different light. <P>Maybe there wasn't a "Beware of Dog" sign in the first place. When you return you are told there is no dog and still no sign. So you trust what you are being told, yet get bitten again. Yes there is a point where you just don't go in the yard. This is where I'm at but continue to get the advice (Don't make any decsions yet...It's still too soon). At what point do you say "Good bye. I won't enter the yard any longer sign or no sign...dog or no dog"?<P>The unanswered question is. Why don't the H's leave? Why keep coming back and giving the old "I want to be with you" speach. If they love us the way they say, then maybe they'd evaluate what they want and do it. Leave already. Stop the suffering already. They are only hurting us more each time. I never thought any human being (betrayed spouses) could take the beatings we have and still wake up in the morning. Sometimes I think if it weren't for my baby girl my heart would have failed me by now and I wouldn't be here to talk with any of you. <P>So the underlying question? How do you know when your time is up and your new life begins? LSM<P>[This message has been edited by lostsoulmate (edited July 19, 2000).]</B> There was no sign about a dog posted anywhere so I felt safe walking in the yard. I trusted my husband the first time he told me he was sorry and that he wouldn't betray my trust in him. He has cheated and lied so much, I see it as a racket. He does this routine over and over because he is willing to go for the OSCAR until I settle my heart and change my mind about ending our marriage. So, I have decided to allow him to play his game, yet I am allowing him a chance to change his ways. It's just that I wondered--at a point--why doesn't he just leave and stay away? Why keep doing this to me? Why not set me free so I can be available for someone who will love and respect me since he doesn't want to love and respect me? My children have inspired my strength because I didn't want to break down and leave them to his care. I remained strong for them. If my husband were to read this, he would get offended that I didn't say I was strong because of my love for him. He can't see that his infidelity affected the children, too.<P>My hurt has become anger. Now, I try to do something to stop the hurt. I don't peacefully accept his racket any more. It is a mystery to me why it exists at all.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><P>------------------<BR>Love hurts no one.

AGoodPhrend: It's a mystery to me too. Maybe there's something to be said about "addiction". Or is it love. I ask myself if it's love like you said, just leave. If they loved us at all over the years and if they care for our well being just leave.<P>But it appears we may have to be the ones to draw the line. I just think once I do my H's eyes will finally be open and I won't be there for him to see. I'm so sorry for that. I hope your H sees the light before it's too late. Good Luck. I'll be thinking of you. LSM<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Maybe there wasn't a "Beware of Dog" sign in the first place. When you return you are told there is no dog and still no sign. So you trust what you are being told, yet get bitten again. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It gave me great relief to read this. It has nothing to do with my marriage but in other instances in my life. I tend to doubt when I sense something is amiss and I will ask for confirmation. The answer I get is "There is no dog, don't worry about it." And I believe it, because I trust the source of the information more than I trust my own instincts. There was no sign, no barking, but I did somehow 'sense' that there was a dog there and that he might bite. After getting bitten the question is asked again "I thought there was no dog. What just bit me?" "Oh that? He was just playing. He won't bite. Don't worry about it." Go back in the yard, get bitten again. <P>From now on, I won't ask for confirmation. I won't let that dog bite me again. I'm going to trust my own instincts. If I sense a dog, I won't go in the yard. Sign or no sign.<P>

lostsoulmate, you wrote:<P>"I ask myself if it's love like you said, just leave. If they loved us at all over the years and if they care for our well being just leave."<P>Me too. I think back before my marriage, when I was dating. There were several times when I had to sever the bond between me and the other person because I knew, in my heart, that it was not just in *my* best interest; it was in *their* best interest. I knew that I was incapable of giving them the love and commitment that we all deserve. There are several relationships that I could have stayed in for the wrong reasons - because I needed someone to pick me up, I just needed the company, the sex was good, blah, blah, blah. But when I finally reached the realization of no, I did not love that person enough to commit to them, I knew that it was unfair to BOTH of us to continue.<P>Why can't betraying spouses do the same? Is it because they want us as fall-backs? Are we really that low on the totem pole that we have been relegated to that status? To me, that speaks volumes of the betrayer. To me it says, "I might not be in love with you because I'm in love with the OP, however, if the OP and I don't work out, I need someone to be my emotional moprag." To me, this is condescending and disrespectful, and has nothing to do with love, or caring. If you love someone, or even care about them, and yet you cannot give them your all, by God, let them go, so that can pursue their own happiness. What's that song, "Cruel to be Kind ...?"<P>belld

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AGoodPhrend:<BR><B>I told him I don't like it when he comes home late from work then leave a few hours later. He returns home at two and three o' clock in the morning. He says he wants to "feel his manhood."</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><B>HELLO! Earth-to-AGoodPhrend!</B><P>He's going to keep doing it until he gives you AIDS and you die.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by BamaAngst (edited July 20, 2000).]

I think we are all married to the same people. My H left me. Of course not for another W!! No way, he says. But I find myself thinking, how many times am I going to do this to myself. He swears he doesnt love her, if things with H and I dont work he doesnt want a relationship with her, ect.. So the 4th time I cought H and OW together, I said enough. Did not speak to H for a month. Doesnt sound very long, but I think I just about died. Then he calls and wants to see the girls. Our daughters are 9 and 1 year. The 1 year old does not know her father and will not let H hold her unless she knows I am near. So I take girls in for visits on a couple of Sundays. Plan A my butt off, and then I think it finally happens!!He comes over late one sunday note and cries in my arms-loves me-wants me back-he can fix this-give him some time to break it off with OW. I say OK-he tried very hard for 2 weeks to break it off with her, but he could not do it. Until 2 days ago he told me trust him, hes not seeing her. Guess what, I caught her at his home again. Now what????Put my foot down. I will not be your puppet or your doormat anymore. I will not play 2nd to her. Or do I continue to plan A. I am crushed sometimes I feel like I will never be normal again. This morning her car is still there, but last nite he called 2x and drove by my house. This morning she is there, I dont get it. What do I do if I again put my foot done and enough. Go be with her, and he comes back a month later with the same lines. I am not strong enough to say no to him and he knows that. How do I stop this never ending cycle of pain and emotional abuse.Help me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think we are all married to the same people. My H left me. Of course not for another W!! No way, he says. But I find myself thinking, how many times am I going to do this to myself. He swears he doesnt love her, if things with H and I dont work he doesnt want a relationship with her, ect.. So the 4th time I cought H and OW together, I said enough. Did not speak to H for a month. Doesnt sound very long, but I think I just about died. Then he calls and wants to see the girls. Our daughters are 9 and 1 year. The 1 year old does not know her father and will not let H hold her unless she knows I am near. So I take girls in for visits on a couple of Sundays. Plan A my butt off, and then I think it finally happens!!He comes over late one sunday note and cries in my arms-loves me-wants me back-he can fix this-give him some time to break it off with OW. I say OK-he tried very hard for 2 weeks to break it off with her, but he could not do it. Until 2 days ago he told me trust him, hes not seeing her. Guess what, I caught her at his home again. Now what????Put my foot down. I will not be your puppet or your doormat anymore. I will not play 2nd to her. Or do I continue to plan A. I am crushed sometimes I feel like I will never be normal again. This morning her car is still there, but last nite he called 2x and drove by my house. This morning she is there, I dont get it. What do I do if I again put my foot done and enough. Go be with her, and he comes back a month later with the same lines. I am not strong enough to say no to him and he knows that. How do I stop this never ending cycle of pain and emotional abuse.Help me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lostsoulmate:<BR><B>AGoodPhrend: It's a mystery to me too. Maybe there's something to be said about "addiction". Or is it love. I ask myself if it's love like you said, just leave. If they loved us at all over the years and if they care for our well being just leave.<P>But it appears we may have to be the ones to draw the line. I just think once I do my H's eyes will finally be open and I won't be there for him to see. I'm so sorry for that. I hope your H sees the light before it's too late. Good Luck. I'll be thinking of you. LSM</B> LSM, it's so strange that tears welled up as I read the end of your reply. I pictured my husband in emotional pain after reality set in. Part of me wants our marriage to work, but I don't want to be passively submissive anymore. I don't think my husband was ready for the level of submission and respect I rendered at the beginning of our marriage and before the affairs. It's like he freaked at the possibilities of having a wife who honored him. The possibilities of being able to behave like a bachelor and have a wife who would take care of basic comforts equivalent to his mother. I don't know (smile) but I do appreciate your thoughtfulness. Thanks for writing.<P>P.S. It's funny you mention "addiction" because I heard a song this evening about addictive love. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><P>------------------<BR>Love hurts no one.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TruthSeeker:<BR><B> It gave me great relief to read this. It has nothing to do with my marriage but in other instances in my life. I tend to doubt when I sense something is amiss and I will ask for confirmation. The answer I get is "There is no dog, don't worry about it." And I believe it, because I trust the source of the information more than I trust my own instincts. There was no sign, no barking, but I did somehow 'sense' that there was a dog there and that he might bite. After getting bitten the question is asked again "I thought there was no dog. What just bit me?" "Oh that? He was just playing. He won't bite. Don't worry about it." Go back in the yard, get bitten again. <P>From now on, I won't ask for confirmation. I won't let that dog bite me again. I'm going to trust my own instincts. If I sense a dog, I won't go in the yard. Sign or no sign.<P></B>TruthSeeker, my instincts have radar on ducks. If it looks like a duck...acts like a duck...then it has to be a duck. My husband doesn't think he should EARN my trust. So, he really gets the blues when I want to talk about what's in my heart concernng his conduct. I asserted to him that his schedule appeared as before when he was in an affair. He insists he isn't. I really hope it is not a duck.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><P>------------------<BR>Love hurts no one.