I'm sure that this question has been asked a million times before. When do you just call it a day? I've read posts from people who have hung in there for years, and their spouse has returned. It's been a year, and my H has been cheating for that long. I find that I no longer have any feelings or desire to work on the marriage. It didn't help that during his affair, he became even more abusive than he already was. I was just listening to some tapes of our telephone conversations, and now I can see, very clearly, that he was comparing me to OW all along. Do I really want someone like this? It has nothing to do with ego. I don't want to feel like second best!<P>H has refused to go to an affairs counselor. He has refused to talk about the year he was having his affair. He said that we could go to counseling, on the condition that the year he had his affair was not addressed in therapy. I told him, no; what was the point? He is trying to set conditions on recovery, and in the process trying to make me believe that the affair was nothing in the grand scheme of things, when in fact, it was the cause of why I feel so reticent to give him any kind of chance whatsoever.<P>H because abusive on the phone again ... I asked him if he had seen or talked to OW, and he said no. But that doesn't mean that he's not boinking someone else these days. I think I'm stuck with a serial cheater who will not admit to being a cheater, and he has told me that he will never, ever confess to that - that his sex life is not my business. Beg to disagree.<P>I feel that I must divorce him to get away from this madness. I'm not just fighting against one OW, there could be any number of them out there. Today the phone rang, and it was one of those "wrong numbers" again. God help me. I cannot do this anymore. I want a life. I feel that I will be much happier without him in my life. My marriage has not been good, for the most part, because of H's abusiveness. I don't know if Plan A and Plan B are applicable in this situation.<P>I think I should just throw in the towel.<P>What about the rest of you? What is just too much? When do you finally say, "Okay, goodbye!" - ???<P>belld

I'm pretty new here, but from what I've read, you need to get out, and fast. <BR>His sex life is none of your business?! Maybe he forgot that he said "and forsaking all others..." when he married you!<P>If he is abusive, you're outta there.<P>If he won't admit to or discuss his infidelity, you're outta there. <P>If he feels no remorse over what he has done to you, he doesn't care about you one bit, and you're outta there.<P>While I'm apparently no expert on marriage (W is moving out one day after our 3rd anniversary), I have spent lots of time with abused women. I've worked with women's shelters and done this topic I don't know how many times on my own radio show.<BR> This guy is not worth the effort. You are far, far better than this, and you know it. I know this is a forum for rebuilding marriages, but sometimes you need to throw in the towel.

belldandy:<P>You never "give up." In my mind, when you know that you have tried as hard as you can and you know in your heart that you don't love your spouse any more, you move on. You don't "give up"--you make an informed and difficult choice.<P>Only you know when you have done everything you could. No one else's opinion should matter. It is YOUR decision.<P>All the best to you as you look for the answer. --HBC<P>

You have been through the ringer with your H. I just had to deal with depression and one EMR. You have had so much more than that. If getting out is what you want to do you're more than entitled, you owe him nothing at this point. I think only you can decide when you have had enough. When H and I were going through all the crap I made a conscious decision that i wasn't ginving up at least until the final divorce papers were filed (I would have made sure that was a looooong process too).Even then, who knows. I'm a huge believer in happy endings but once your spouse betrays you, all bets are off.

HBC is on target here, belldandy. If you've done what you could to save the marriage (around here I usually recommend the Plan A/B approach), and you simply don't have any love left for your husband, then you're ready for divorce.<P>I'd encourage you to "sleep on it" for a couple weeks, if this is a newly-occurring thought. But if this is the culmination of a long term effort, and you know that your feelings for him are pretty dead, then you're ready to divorce him on your terms.

This is almost painful for me to write. <P>Let me preface this by telling a story from my single days. I once dated a musician for three years, two of which he spent cheating on me. The second year, I reacted as I did in my marriage - I was hurt, I blamed him, I felt out of control. The third year, however, I realized that the behavior was not going to go away. I got tired of feeling tricked and taken advantage of. I was wary of STDs and did not feel safe having sex with him. And I was bored with the drama he was creating in the relationship. There was always some woman named Tiffany, Muffy, Betsy, Lizzy, whomever the lay du noir happened to be. Some sort of self-preservation mechanism inside me kicked in, and one day, I simply left him. He was devastated, he simply didn't understand. But I have no reservations about doing what I did. <P>That said: tere was a window of time during which my H could have told me everything and come clean about his affair. There was a window of time during which he could have been gentle, understanding, compassionate, asked me to go to therapy. He could have agreed to try to change himself. I would have gladly accepted his explanations; I would have gladly received his attention. Nothing would have made me happier.<P>However, I feel now that I've shut down, emotionally; I don't hate my H. But nor do I feel those tender, romantic, loving feelings for him. There is no one else in my life - I'm not even thinking of seriously dating, or getting involved, with anyone. However, I feel that at this point, it would be easier - and that I would be happier - with someone with whom I don't have all of this messy, unhappy history with. It's not *just* the affair - it's the lack of employment, the blame, the verbal and physical abuse, the lack of time, attention and understanding that has gone on in our marriage for some years. I knew that I was over him when I found that I had absolutely no desire to know the truth about his affair. At this point, it doesn't matter. Which is an indicator that he no longer matters ... well, he matters as a human being, of course. But you can only behave in a certain way for so long before it gets boring and old. I don't want to go to therapy. I have absolutely no desire to reconcile. I'm happier on my own - the happiest I've been in years.<P>I saw my psychiatrist yesterday for a med check up. He told me that the only way to get out of this "event" that has catapulted me into a major depressive episode was to avoid it in the future - otherwise, I will always be on medications, and I will always need counseling. I don't want to go through my life getting help from medications and therapists. I want a normal, peaceful life, like I have now. One where I have hope that one day, when the time is right, I will meet someone who can meet the needs that I need to be met. I don't expect him to be perfect; however, I *do* expect sane, rational, logical behavior, and fidelity and honesty and all of those things that make for a good marriage.<P>Thanks for the input. I don't feel tired or weary anymore - just sort of blase. Indifferent. Maybe this will pass, but I highly doubt it. I feel better alone. I feel perfectly normal.<P>belld

belld,<P>I haven't replied to you before but I have read your posts. This one really hit home for me.<P>My stbx was also physically abusive. And I don't think they can be physically abusive without also being emotionally abusive. I lived with him for 10 1/2 years and endured more than I should have. He left in December and I wanted him back until the end of February or the first of March. I found out how peaceful life can be without him and I basically didn't love him anymore. But I don't hate him either. I don't worry about where he is or what he is doing. I worry about my children and my life. <P>I filed for divorce in March and hopefully it will be final soon. <P>I'm also happier alone with just my children. I've found out that I can make it by myself and so can you if that's what's right for you.<P>Take care,<BR>Mitzi

Mitzi,<P>You inspire me. My H tells me that I'm selfish, whenever I mention us getting a divorce. He tells me that I'm only doing it for me, and that I'm not thinking of him.<P>I tell him that he's exactly on the money. This *is* about me, and it's not like he's asking me to make a small concession, like giving up my career and going part-time so I can be an at-home mom; he's asking me to deal with a loveless marriage where I no longer trust or have any respect for my spouse.<P>Doesn't he understand that he will only get shortchanged in the end, as well? Why does he suddenly want to live with someone who doesn't want him? My life is not a game.<P>belld

Belldandy, <BR>as i read your post and your replies, i started off sad then ended up feeling glad. you have realized who you need to take care of and look out for: YOU!! a husband who says HIS SEX LIFE IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS is no husband at all!!! how heartless and cruel and selfish and idiotic. i could go on and on. you say you feel blase. a person can take just so much pain and anger...then they shut down as a protective mechanism. otherwise they would self-destruct. i think there comes a point where you can no longer take into consideration the needs of a wandering, unrepentant (sp?) spouse, when you have done everything you could with no results. <P>i am glad you are feeling more peaceful now. i think that is a sign you are ready to move on. his loss.... he may never learn anything from this, and will go on repeating his stupid mistakes, hurting himself and others. some people "get it" and some people don't. maybe some day he will, but you will be long gone........make yourself happy, you deserve it. you will be in my thoughts SW

belld,<P>Believe me, it took me a long time to get where I'm at. I spent so much time trying to make things work and meeting his needs. None of mine were getting met, and I honestly think I started losing my love for him before he left. We did nothing as a couple or a family. He was too wrapped up in his friends and the bar scene. My boys used to go for days at a time without seeing their father and he still lived with us. Even now, he only sees them about once a month. (And he lives 10 minutes away!) <P>When there is physical, verbal and emotional abuse involved, it's hard to try and save a marriage. The spouse has to work on their other problems first before the marriage can be fixed. And in my case, my H wasn't willing.<P>Take care,<BR>Mitzi