Dear Everyone:<P>When do you go from being in RECOVERY to feeling as if you're a SUCCESS STORY?<P>How do you know? Is it something inside of you? Is it a *feeling* you get back from your spouse? Does it require a certain amount of time? Does the couple have to come to this understanding as a team...or can one spouse consider themselves a success story before the other?<P>Just asking. Afraid to call myself/my marriage a SUCCESS. Possibly afraid to EVER call my life a success again.<P>I thought we were a SUCCESS before H's A <ouch>.<P>Has anyone ever felt like they were being punished (by God???) because of their good fortune? I mean, I thought I had the perfect marriage. I was so content. So proud....almost smug....in the fact that I had it so *good*.<P>Now, I'm afraid to feel really *good*....about anything <so sad>.<P>Twice in my life I've suffered what I would term *tragedies*...one was my spouse's A, the other dealt with a horrible act done against my youngest child (she's fine now, thank goodness).<P>Both of these events caught me completely off guard....happened at times when I was serenly happy/content at who I was, where I was at.<P>Both of these events caused me to feel as though you can never *plan* anything, or *count* on stability.....that there is some evil hand lurking in the skies above that swoops down and wipes out your *perfect* life just to see if you have the strength left inside you to fight/rebuild.<P>I compare it to feeling as though you're in the middle of the *perfect* board game--all your pieces are EXACTLY where you'd like them to be--and then, SWOOSH, down comes this giant hand that scatters the pieces flying in every direction.<P>Determined not to feel defeated, you pick up the pieces and begin to set up the board once again....<P>but, this time, you don't put your heart and soul into it. It's no longer a work of art. It's simply what it is: A game, with pieces, waiting for someone/something to destroy the set-up.<P>Is success simply "hoping" again?...is it wanting to play again?....or is it simply playing without having any fear?<P>Peace, ~Marie<P>P.S. Of course, on the flip side of all this, one could surmise that I have succeeded--my marriage is INTACT, my child recovered. And, I SEE THAT....and I consider these acts as true MIRACLES. But what confuses me is my inability to *let go*, to simply feel comfortable, to LIVE...to believe that things can be good and STAY THAT WAY. Ahhh...but I know, life has no guarantees <sigh>...you gotta have faith.

Hello,<P>I am new to the board and I wanted to say your thoughts mirrors mine. How can you tell if you are recovering. My H decided not to move out yesterday as planned and is recommitting himself to the marriage. This is 6th time in four months that he is willing to give up the OW and so far has been unable to stay away. Each time I thought that we were in recovery only to have the rug pulled out from under me. I do not dare tell my friends and family that he is willing to try again as they are fed up with my stories or reconciliation. Will he change his mind again? If so will I think all is well until he does pull the rug out from under me again. How do I know he is serious this time. How do I resolve all of my feelings of betrayal, hurt and humilitaion? Yes, we have a therapist. My H was willing to go before but not now. He thinks he has resolved his issues and just wants to move on. I still plan on going to therapy for myself - I need help recovering from this regardless of whether he stays in the marriage or not.

Marie,<P>Based on some recent threads, we seem to be in a very small group here that claim we are in a true recovery. I was hoping that my thread and Peppermint's would elicit more positive responses.<P>Anyway, I feel very much as you do. And your analogy of a board game was great. My 5 year old is just learning chess, and I can picture the big hand wiping it out.<P>I'm reading Life Strategies by Phil McGraw. Maybe I'll have a better answer in about a month after I work through it. (He has a lot of assignments).<P>One of his Life Laws is that life is managed, it is not cured. I haven't gotten to that chapter yet.<P>Intellectually, I know that God is good, but we live in an imperfect world. But I often feel just what you said - that He is a cosmic sadist, waiting to swoop down. Maybe it is all the tragedies I have had?<P>The kind of serentity you mentioned seems unreal in light of the reality of life. My life could end today in a car wreck, or worse, the life of my 3 or 5 year old.<P>Somehow, I must live with this tension, and make something good of my life day by day. I must still plan for tomorrow, yet live as if today was my last.<P>Does this make any sense?<P>But as far as marriage - my h was the one person, the only person, I thought I could always count on. I'm finding it hard to live with the knowledge that there is noone currently in my life that I can count on, just me.<P>At one point, it was this more than anything else, that almost drove me to end my life.<P>I did not want to live in a world in which not one person cared about me. But I thought about my 3 and 5 year old and how messed up they would be without me. At least, they will never know what it is like to be totally alone in this world, not while I'm alive!<P>Anyway, to answer your question, if we are in a committed relationship where both are living by the "rules", I think we are a success. But we can never rest on our laurels. Life is a battle that must be won each day.<P>You know, this is the only century in human history where a large percentage of the population does not have to worry about where the next meal is coming from. And we have air conditioning and many other conveniences. Most of history, it was literally a daily battle for survival!<P><p>[This message has been edited by schizzo (edited August 02, 2000).]

Marie, I have often felt that this is a test of my faith in God. I, too, thought that our marriage was a success. I thought that my life was great, everything was right on track. Then, swoop, down came the hand of Satan to put temptation in my path. He put temptation in my H's path too and my H faltered. Now, he continues to tempt my H and I by having us question our marriage. By making us selfish takers instead of givers. I am trying very hard to ignore these selfish desires and live to be the person God wants me to me--unselfish, faithful, sweet and kind. If Job could do it, so can I. I hope my H one day sees that Satan is actively involved in trying to ruin his life. I hope that he sees that the true path lies in us becoming the good and faithful person that God wants us to be.<P>I know that my H and I have to potential to be a great success story. Unfortunately, he is going to have to be the one to decide. I've made my decision, but I can't do it alone.<P>Schizzo, isn't it interesting that the more we have the more messed up our lives seem to be. Some of my H's and my happiest times were when we didn't have any money.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lapeine:<BR><B>Schizzo, isn't it interesting that the more we have the more messed up our lives seem to be. Some of my H's and my happiest times were when we didn't have any money.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't agree. This would be much harder without money (to pay sitters so we can have our time, etc). <P>

My personal POV...<P>Nothing and no one can be definitively considered a success until the end..."success" is an end-point, and life is a process.<P>So, I consider that we are suceeding, but would not call us "a success." In my own case, I don't even use "recovery", as I feel we are more building the marraige we should have had (way before the EA) rather than recovering from it...it was just a symptom.<P>So, back to your question, I like terms like "building" and "succeeding" and more than one that implies that we have finished becoming a success...<P>As for perfection, it is a nice abstract concept, but doesn't exist in the real world. And, I'm not even sure that it should. <P>Kathi<P><BR>

Hello,<BR>I too thought my h was the one person (only one) in this world that I could count on.<P>That illusion was shattered.. and now, it is so difficult to trust not just h, but anyone.<P>We (my h and I ) were "Ken and Barbie"), not that we look like K&B but , you know the image you portray to others.<P>I thought life was great. We were comfortable, we have everything we need, most of what we want and then some. We have had our ups and downs. I quess h felt the downs more than I did or maybe I just refused to see it.<P>I have made a decision to rebuild our marriage, and too, now it's my h who must decide. Like I said in another thread, I think he believes that we are "done". <P>But, I want more from him, more of a guarantee that we will have a better marriage than the one we had prior to A.<P>I'm not seeing this happen yet and it disturbs me. Not b/c of him so much but b/c of the way I feel right now. I'm beginning to question why I have endured this survival and recovery and if I'm so sure this is what I want. Do you think this is normal?<P>Is there someone else out there who will meet my needs and fulfill my dream partnership? Don't I deserve more than this struggle. Will I ever meet his needs without a twinge of resentment?<P>After 12 months since d-day you would think that I would have a better perspective on this than I do now. But it seems to keep me confused daily. I feel so numb right now as if I don't care one way or the other what happens now. I don't care about meeting his needs, that's hogwash !!! What did he care about my needs prior to Jan 2000. Now he trys to convince me that he cares! And he want so much as look at any professional plan to help us. I think that meeting EN should be renamed "How to Kiss A$$".<P>Not me, I'm not about all give and no get.<P>I know some of you are going to come down hard on me for saying that but I'm sorry, it's just the way I feel right now. Maybe I'll feel better tomorrow.<P>It's been a real struggle and I'm very tired now. Maybe I should take those anti-depressants. Any one heard of Wellbutrin SR.<P>Let me know...Thanks<P>Cathy

Not going to come down hard on you at all, Cat. Vent away. <P>Marie,<P>Wanting to sit back and coast on our laurels, are we? <P>Has anyone here said this yet?:<BR> <BR>You can be a recovering alcoholic but you can never be a recovered alcoholic.<P>I have similar feelings about this affair/recovery business. We are in recovery but we will never "recover" <P>Depressing enough? Don't let it be. <P>Our ideas about marriage were faulty to begin with. Once we said our vows we thought it was a done deal. It's not. <P>Love should never be considered a noun in marriage--it's a verb! <P> Like the song says:<P><I>Love isn't something that we find...<BR>Love isn't something that we have...<BR>Love's not just something that we're in...<BR>Love isn't just those words we said...<BR>Love isn't someplace that we fall...<P>it's something that we</I><B>do</B>. <P>If you feel good at where you're at, you're able to forgive eachother, you're healing, you're both following the common sense marriage principles, the hurt is gone or no longer has control over you, you're marriage is where you both want it to be and you're feeling blessed--then I'd have to say you are, Hon.

Good grief! Where was I yesterday???? I think I LOST ME.....<P>Guess I slipped, temporarily, into "poor Marie" mode. Quick, someone slap me .<P>Today, I feel as though I've QUICKLY turned around. Back to me .<P>When I was at work yesterday afternoon, I reached into my briefcase to pull out a file, and with it came my printout of "The Invitation" by Oriah Mountain Dreamer, Indian Elder. It was JUST what I needed. Here's a sample:<P>"It doesn't interest me what planets are squaring with your moon. I want to know if you have touched the center of your own sorrow, if you have been opened by lifes's betrayals, or have been shriveled and closed from the fear of further pain. I want to know if you can sit with pain, mine or your own, without moving to hide or fade it or fix it. I want to know if you can be with JOY, mine or your own; if you can dance with wildness and let ecstasy fill you to the tips of your fingers and toes without cautioning us to be careful, to be realistic, or to remember the limitations of being human." "....I want to know if you can see beauty even when it is not pretty every day, and if you can live with failure, yours and mine, and still stand on the edge of a lake and shout to the sliver of a moon, YES!"<P><BR><B><I>YES, YES, YES!</B></I> <can everyone hear me shouting?><P><BR>Thanks for all the responses! Peace, ~Marie

Hi everyone,<P>Notice how we all seem to be drawn to the same threads?<P>I just wanted to say that I really like Kathi's comments about building and succeeding. I don't like the idea of ever thinking that we have reached success because that sounds like you're finished with nothing left to accomplish.<P>We are succeeding (slowly) in our efforts to overcome the damage of an affair and building (also slowly) the kind of relationship that will assure this never happens again.<P>Just writing and reading that makes me feel better!<P>Peppermint

Hhhmmm, The Invitation is a poem that the woman my H thought he was in love sent him...<P>somehow, I've never liked it since then...<P>

I guess that I would say that my H and I are building most of the time successfully and sometimes with a few backward steps. When I look back on how things were last summer and fall-- problems (that didn't seem to be major) of which we were aware but did not fully address until the crisis of H's EA (on the internet), I feel we've come a long way in trying to affirmatively work on our marriage and meet each other's ENs. The whole MB philosophy, books, and the counseling have given us a framework and process for rebuilding the marriage. I truly feel that we are going to come out better than we've been in years.

Dear Kathi: Whoops....didn't mean to post a "trigger".<P><B>Just for you</B>, how about this:<P>Dance like no one is watching,<BR>Sing like no one can hear you,<BR>Love like you've never been hurt.<P>Same message, different author (not sure who???).<P>RE: rebuilding -vs- success -vs- recovery. I also like *rebuilding*....sounds much more positive. Who wants to recover?--sounds as if you've been sick, or worse yet, battling some weird disease (OWitis??? STUPID H SYNDROME???--ONLY KIDDING!!! ). Rebuilding is much more positive. Thanks for sharing your viewpoint. Very UPLIFTING.<P>Peace, ~Marie