I can't believe that I am where I am again!!!<BR>No... my H hasn't had another affair, at least to my knowledge but traveling this road before, I wouldn't guess that it would be long. And to tell you the truth I think about it myself. Not because I don't love my H but because I just want someone to care about me, want to spend a little time with me, someone who finds me interesting and a little fun. Someone who can appreciate that sort of bonding time. <BR>I have been feeling this way for awhile now but this past weekend was our 10th wedding anniversary and it was sooooo boring. Our whole life is boring as hell. I even tried to tell him that I just wanted us to have some fun but he said that we will never have any fun together until the children are grown and out of the house. I don't think that has anything to do with it and even so, I don't think that we would even then because we seem to be drifting apart again now.<BR>For us to have fun together just the two of us takes and act of congress. If someone else is around then we have a decent time but if we are alone forget it.<BR>There was an upside to our anniversary but it was very short lived. <P>The other night my H came in from work and our son was pesturing the dog and the dog snaped at him. Nothing serious at all just a couple of scratches on 1 of his fingers. But my H kicked our dog about 10 times as hard as he could with his steel toed work boots. He proceeded to say how he was going to kill the dog, stomp a mud hole in its A$$, and put a bullet in it. Right in front of the kids. I tried to tell him to stop and just shutup but he said F this, F that, F the dog and on and on. So finally I said F you! He got mad and left.<BR>Upon his return he said that I was lucky that he just left and didn't punch me in the mouth that I wasn't going to cuss him and show him such disrespect. That he had started not to even come home but he said no that this was his home and that he wasn't going to be run out of his own home.<BR>My reply was that I agreed but that it was my home too and that I wasn't going to have to live that this and that he had no right to come in here and act like that and that I would not stand for that in MY HOME!!!<P>He proceeded to tell me that he had let me run my mouth for far to long now and that if I knew what was good for me that I would just shut up. He was like a stranger!! It was very upsetting as he really sounded like that mean, hateful, angry and hurtful person that he was during the affair. So how can one help but remember those days.<P>I feel so trapped. I am at home mom and although I have talents to where I could go and get a job, there is always the aspect of the children and the outrageous cost of child care and the fear of trying to make it on my own. I don't want this kind of relationship but then again I beleive in the marriage thing and the till death do us part stuff.<P>I feel like I have a huge decision to make here and one that I am terrified to make at the same time. I keep telling myself that there are other men out there that would appreciate me for who I am and what I stand for but then again I guess that I have a fear of being alone. Then you think well at least being alone you wouldn't have to deal with crap like this. I am just really torn because as much as it puzzles me still, I would have to say that I do still love him or is it addicted. I don't think that I can tell the difference anymore.<P>I know many of you will say couselling, well forget it because it is a waste of time. We have tried that, he refuses. When we got back together he agreed to go to church, get counselling, read the SAA book and follow those principals, and to watch the on tape version of marriage counselling that I bought, "Hidden Keys to Loving Relationships". He doesn't follow through on anything. He makes promises and then doesn't think twice about breaking them.<P>I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that this marriage is doomed to failure and I am exausted with putting my efforts and best foot forward to try and make this marriage and this family what it should and could be. I can not to it alone and I am sick and tired of trying.<P>I think the time to move on and look for greener pasture has come. Guess I just needed to vent some. Thanks for listenening again.<P>It is very confusing and very saddening that things can me good for a few days/weeks and you then question yourself and think I must be crazy and I am just over-reacting and then something else happens that makes you think that you were only crazy when you were thinking that you were crazy and over-reacting. <P>Trying to decide,<BR>Genie<BR>

Genie,<P>you are not alone. I often wonder if it would be better to be in charge of my own unhappiness rather than suffer the verbal abuse of a selfish H. I am also concerned about my daughter - and raising her on my own, but when she once said to me "mommy don't worry i'll protect you" i realized that my 3yr old should not feel like she needs to protect me from her father. THis is no family.<P>

Maturing....<P>That is an excellent user name because I think that if nothing else comes out of this turmoil, that we at least mature some and see things the way that actually are. I guess when we are young we tend to look at things like they are some kind of a fairy tale and then we begin to see that life isn't like that fairy tale that we as little girls dream of.<P>I wish I could offer you some advice but I don't think that I am in any position to offer anyone anything at this point. I dream of happiness but all I seem to have is mostly unhappiness.<P>I guess the strangest thing is all the things that my H said to me about not being happy and had only stayed with me because of the children, that he didn't love me the way I wanted him to, and that he couldn't be the man that I wanted him to be. Now seem to make the most sense of all.<P>It is just so confusing to love someone and those same sort of feelings now that he said that he had then. I just wish that things were different. I came from a divorced family and I hated it and more than anything in this world I didn't want that for my children but now I fear that will be their destiny. And that saddens me more than you can imagine.<P>Good luck to you and you will be in my thoughts.<P>Genie

Genie,<P>Please take everything I say with a grain of salt. Unfortunately I too am not strong enough to leave my H, and feel that it would be destructive to my D to make her go thru a divorce. But my therapist asked me if i think that allowing her to live in a house where the father is constantly yellig at her mom is any better. She will grow up thinking that the father is not supposed to respect the wife and that the wife needs to live in "fear" of a verbal outbreak by the father. <P>I don't have an answer but i do know that even if my H is nice to me for one day i hold on to that and remember it and hope it continues because I also want a marriage with someone who respects me and makes me feel loved. Unfortunately i am beginning to think that i am more in love w/ the idea of being in love than w/ my husband.

I'm so sorry...I cannot imagine what it must be like to live with such treatment. I rather think you are right, that it is time to leave...but you are the only one who can make that decision.<P>I know you said that couples counseling was a waste of time...but have you tried counseling for you? To support you and help you find your way through this difficult time? <P>You are in my prayers...you too, maturing.<P>Kathi<BR>

genie, <BR> What you are describing is a textbook example of early abuse. Please don't wait until you or one of your children is the victim being "kicked with a steel-toed boot."<BR>Very often,spouse/child abuse is preceded with such behaviors against family pets. <BR>Also remember that adult abusers often learned their habits as children by observing their parents.<BR> If I've ever seen a good example of when it is time to end amariage, yours is it. You and your children deserve to be loved and respected, not treated in this way.It will only get worse...trust me, I'be been there.<BR>Good luck. You are in my prayers. <P> PS When you leave, please take your dog with you!!!

Genie,<P>Take it from someone who was physically abused for 10 1/2 years. It might be time to get out. I didn't go sooner because of fear and believing in my vows. My children have suffered tremendously because of seeing my H threaten me, punch me, kick me, slap me, knock me down, pull my hair out, put my head thru a wall (2x), throw things at me...and the list goes on and on. <P>My oldest son was 10 when stbx moved out. He has been angry and afraid for so long that he takes things out on my other 2 children. My middle one lashes out in anger when he gets hurt or is mad. They have learned to react the same way their father did. I wish I hadn't let it go on so long. <P>Please think of not only you and the kids' physical safety, but also the emotional well-being of your children when making your decision.<P>(((((HUGS)))))<BR>Mitzi

I hope Karenna will see this post and respond. She's the one who knows how to plan A and set limits at the same time. I'm fumbling around with it myself. <P>My situation is nowhere near as drastic as yours, but I truly believe if I had set limits earlier in my marriage that we'd be better off today. Accepting things that you consider unacceptable because you're afraid of losing him or being on your own is, I believe, a huge huge huge mistake. Kicking the dog with steel toed boots???? I'd say, get that behavior OUT OF YOUR LIFE, even if it means removing him along with it.

Genie29,<P>I'm so sorry you have to go through all this. I can only imagine how hard it must be for you.<P>I know you may feel that counseling for both of you would not do any good, but for your own sake, seek counseling for yourself and your kids. If nothing else, it helps to have someone who is on your side, who will listen to you and be respectful of you. You can only change yourself and your reactions, you can't change him, so nurturing yourself becomes very important.<P>My therapist has told me that when looking at these situations, pretend you are the parent in the situation. For instance, pretend that your children are either you or your H all grown up. Picture their faces, experiencing what you have just experienced. What would you do?? What advice would you give them? If your daughter (if you have one) were being verbally or physically abused, what would you say to her??<P>Not sure what your background is, but I know that family violence perpetuates itself. So if your kids grow up seeing this behavior, they will either become the offender or the victim. There's a lot of information about that in the book "Adult Children: Secrets of Dysfunctional Families". I grew up in a household where my father controlled people with his anger and sure enough, despite my best efforts, I married the same type of guy!!! <P>Counseling has really helped me though, because my therapist challenges my negative thoughts about myself and helps me to make changes. It's not easy at all, but you deserve to be happy and your kids deserve to be happy and not bullied!! <P>My heart goes out to you, it's a difficult situation all around...especially when kids are involved.<P>Hugs<BR>

Genie,<P>I don't have much time, but I'll tell you what I think, even though it goes against the tone of the replies so far.<P>I like dogs, but a dog is not a child, so I disagree with any 'labels' of abuse.<P>Is he enthusiastic about owning a pet?<P>Could it be that he is being protective of the kids (a good thing, right?), but going about it wrong?<P>It is ok to set limits on what behavior you will accept as someone else said, but weren't you disrespectful in front of the kids? That is a biggie for a man.<P>It's usually not what you say, but how.<P>When I found out my h was not in-love with me, I set out to change that, to deposit so many love units that he would be crazy about me. I figured if things didn't work out, at least he would really miss me!<P>Genie, this is the best advice I can give - start with you, get strong and choose your life.<P>I am reading "Life Strategies" by Phil McGraw. It is excellent! It requires a lot of work, but it's up to you and I to have the life we want.<P>He says the bad news is that we are accountable for the state our life is in (not someone else). But the good news is that we can change that! It is not psycho-babble. I've never read someone so straight-forward before.

I would have to disagree...abuse of animals is generally a "first step"...<P>and, he has already said you are lucky he didn't punch you in the mouth...<P>He is on the way to actually abusing you and/or the kids, IMHO.<P>

I agree w/ Kam - from personal experience. When a man has shown violence either to an animal or even to a wall during rage it is a sign of possible abuse. My H has always had an abusive mouth to me - put me down, told me i was useless even told me that as a wife i am a joke. But it wasn't until i found out about his EA and began to question him and LB did he ever use his hand. I was shocked at first but was not completely surprised when i look back and realize all the signs i closed my eyes to.<P>I have to admit tho i was lucky when he did my D was not there to see.

Genie,<BR>I'm so sorry that this keeps cycling around for you.<P>From what I recall, this is much different behavior for your H than when he came home after his affair last year, and your post says he made promises at that time. His statements that you and he will never be happy while the kids are home is off-track.<P>There is something wrong in your situation, if not an affair...drinking? drugs? all his friends are single, and he wants the greener grass again?<P>I don't think it is a big step from kicking the dog & threatening you to hurting someone. It is frightening to know that you can't financially take care of yourself, <P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

I suppose it's possible that kicking the dog is as far as the physical violence might go. Personally I view it as a warning of worse things to come. But let's say for a moment that we can see into the future and determine that genie29's H never lays a hand on her or the kids. The behavior exhibited by him in this specific incident is unacceptable. I still say the behavior has got to go -- with or without the H.

I want to thank everyone from the bottom of my heart for all your replies!!! <P>I don't know what is going on with him, that is a million dollar question although I do have a couple of suspicions. The main one is....<P>The other night we went over to one of my friends house and her H and her kids were all out of town. But she had a male friend over for dinner. I think that has gotten him to thinking about what I might or might not be doing when he is out of town working. B/c, before he got home that day, I talked to him on the phone and he wanted to know who was here? Just me and the kids I replied not thinking anything about the situation until later. So let me ask you, is it possible that he had gotten to thinking about the possibility that I could be doing the same thing that my friend was and tried and convicted me of some kind of wrong doing in his head before he got home?<P>Even so, that still doesn't excuse his behavior. I just will not live like this but it is very hard for me to leave or even ask him to leave at this time. B/c being a housewife I depend on him financially. But that is something that will be changed very quickly as I have already sent out my resume in hopes to becoming a little more self reliant.<P>This should also pose problems since every single time that I have gotten a job outside of the home, he starts his crap!! Oh well, guess that will just be even more reason to do what I am thinking about doing.<P>You know I still love him but the way he talked to me and the look in his eyes the other night just really <B>RIPPED OPEN ALOT OF OLD WOUNDS</B> for me. He looked and sounded just like that stranger that he was during the affair. You all know what I mean. That person that looks like the one you love but quite definately is someone that you don't know.<P>We haven't spoken since Sunday PM and last night I awoke at about 3:30 and couldn't find him anywhere... I must admit my imagination started running away with me. But I eventually found him in the basement. He had gone down there set up a bed that we had taken down the other day and was asleep. So now I guess we aren't sleeping together either. Doesn't really matter b/c Sun night you could have fit a barge in between us.<P>He did a lot of damage to our relationship the other night and he doesn't seem to be able to see or understand that. And I can't help but wonder if he even cares.<P>I just need to take my time and play my cards right so that I don't put myself or my children in a position that would be even worse than this, like being broke and homeless.<P>There is only so much that a person can take, invest, put up with, ignore and forgive and I do believe I have reached my limit. But then again knowing him he will probably come up with something that will make me wonder if I have over-reacted again. He seems to have a nack for doing just that.<P>He isn't a bad man.... but for the most part we seem to bring out the worst in each other instead of the best and that is not the kind of relationship that I want.<P>Thanks again everyone, hope you will continue to be here for me while I go through this.<P>Genie

I'm so sorry, Genie. No one should have to be subjected to violence in their own home. I think you are definitely doing the right thing by seeking employment. Not only will it help you to become more financially independant, but you will meet more people that way, make contacts, and form alliances. <P>It must be very frightening to be threatened, and have to live with the possibility of violence. Although my H has never raised his hand to me, he bottles up his rage, and keeps it in check most of the time. I have witnessed a couple of times in our marriage where he has completely lost it, and he exploded in an insane rage. It was terrifying. I had to scream at him to stop, then he came back to reality.<P>I don't have any advise for you. I am seriously considering leaving too, due to the emotional abuse. It's a very hard decision to make. I know. Just be strong and know that you are not alone.

Genie,<P>Hello dear friend.<P>It pains me to read your words...it truly does...<P>What does Harley talk abiout...is it the 3 stages of conflict??? Anyhoo maybe try to find that it is here on this site somewhere...<P>I too am curios as to why your H is acting like this. I know that what he did seems out of character for him. He has some deep seeded fear that he doesn't know how to walk through. I haven't a clue what it is but I'm sure it is there.<P>Are you willing to plan-a him...I mean the whole hog plan-a...you know <B>ZERO</B> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>. Try to meet those <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A> you can. Or has you Taker (<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_give.html" TARGET=_blank>Giver and Taker</A>) taken over? Can you try to use the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A> or the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Four Rules for a Successful Marriage</A>? Or are you just ready to quit? <P>Ultimatly the decision is yours...do you or don't you want to be married to him? You do know the drill for all this stuff this is just my loving reminder.<P>I'm praying for you friend.<P>Bill<P>------------------<P><BR>May the roads rise to meet you,<BR>May the winds always be at your back,<BR>May the sun shine warm upon your face,<BR>The rains fall soft upon your fields,<BR>And until we meet again,<BR>May god hold you<BR>In the hollow of his hand.<p>[This message has been edited by WilliamJ (edited August 01, 2000).]

Genie,<P>Honey, get out! <P>But if you don't right away--send your pets away. It's neglect on your part not to keep them safe from harm now that you know what your H is capable of. The man has no respect for a life.<P>He hasn't touched your or the kids but he's threatened. Hello?! If you stay, I'd have to agree that you may very well addicted to him. <P>I've even told the OW that if her H ever threatened to kill her or became violent that she could come to me. My H agrees. The plan would be for him to stay with a family member or friend while she and her kids stayed with me. Strange, I know, but being a nurse I've seen abuse you would not even imagine. And sometimes they NEVER get a warning before hand. You were lucky enough to get a wake up call.<P>A few months ago a man threw gasoline on his wife and lit a match. She died in the hospital after a few days of agony. She was in MY hospital. I'm tremble with rage even now just remembering her. If ever it is within my power to prevent such $%*@ from happening again, I vowed I'll do it.<P>Get the hell out. There's nothing to save in your marriage if you're married to a man filled with rage. But please, take your dog, too.<BR>

Update:<P>H came home, we argued some more, then we actually talked. First time in a long time.<BR>I told him how I felt and that I was not going to put up with that kind of stuff.<P>We talked more and to make a long story short he has agreed to work on our marriage and to do something constructive to improve our marriage, our communication and our home life.<P>I think he knows that I am not going to put up with stuff and I hope that he is taking me seriously and will follow through this time. But time will tell.<P>I told him that I was going back to work so that I could be more self-reliant. I guess the next few weeks will tell the tale.<P>I want to clear a few things up though. Yes I am really very angry with my H and I don't approve or attempt to make excuses for him but in the 13 yrs. that we have been together he has never really been violent. So I can't help but say in his defense that I don't believe that this 1 incident over a 13 yr. period makes a wife beater or abusive.<P>Let's be realistic here too. I know that alot of people are in abusive relationships and I agree that it is nothing to play with but I don't put this in the same catagory at all.<P>I knew that there were things on his mind and he opened up some tonight and we finally communicated with each other instead of screaming at each other.<P>Now I will give credit where credit is due. Now it is just a matter of seeing how serious he is about this and only time will tell me if he is really serious or not. And since it will take me some time to be able to get my own duckies in a row in the even that I do leave.... why not give him this oppurtunity to prove himself to me.<P>I told him how his behavior scared me and opened old wounds and reminded me of the man he was during the affair. He was shocked, he couldn't believe it and was very apologetic about it. He said that he just didn't think of things like that or see in that way.<P>I hope that things do turn around here but if they don't I that is ok too. But I must say that I would prefer that things do work out for our sake as well as the children. <P>But I made it perfectly clear that behavior was unacceptable and that I wanted a happy, loving, respectful home life for the children and wouldn't settle for anything less.<P>Hoping and praying for the best, please keep us in your prayers.<P>Thanks for all your replies and support. Although I may not agree with all of the opinions, I do truly appreciate the time you have given to me today, the concern you have shown and the wisdom in your words.<P>Genie

Hi Genie,<P>I'm very happy to read that you and your husband had a good conversation about what happened.<P>I agree that if it was an isolated incident, you need to try to figure out why it happened and absolutely assure that nothing similar ever happens again. <P>You didn't mention if the dog was seriously injured, but I hope you had him checked.<P>Please also take the time to jointly talk to your children about what happened. They most assuredly know that there are problems in your relationship, and there is nothing wrong with apologizing to them for using inappropriate behaviors, language, and actions to deal with anger. Reassure them that the argument was not because the two of you do not love them or each other, but because there was a problem that you did not deal with in the right way. Let them know what you both did wrong, and what the correct way to deal with anger really is.<P>Please do this as soon as you possibly can. Several weeks ago, my husband lost his temper with me, and made several comments about the state of our marriage to our teenage daughter. He spoke those words out of anger, and didn't mean them. But she didn't know that. I had no idea he had done such a thing, but I knew that something was troubling her very deeply. She didn't want to tell me because she didn't want to betray her father's confidence, hurt me, or cause more trouble between us. But she also didn't want to keep the truth from me, because she believed that her father was planning to leave me and take her with him.<P>She was obviously so unhappy that after about a week, I seriously questioned her and she dissolved in tears and told me about it. I reassured her as best I could, chewed her father out a bit in private, and then he talked to her and we talked to her. Her father explained that he made the comment out of anger and frustration, but that we were committed to solving our problems and keeping our family together.<P>But the point is that our child suffered horribly and needlessly for over a week about some comments he made, not violence or profanity. What your children witnessed was much worse, so please make the effort for the two of you to reassure them and talk to them about what happened.<P>Peppermint