TS:<P>Divorce between two Christians in not permissible. You might throw in the "except for adultery" clause which we were debating, but that still doesn't apply in your case (it allows your husband to divorce you).<P>I hope the doctor helps you out. It does seem to me that you are very depressed, and that's not a good thing. You (personally) get me riled up because I know that you can get better, and have a satisfying marriage. You just need to decide to do it. And it pains m to see you stuck in the indecision mode. But I have no doubt that you'll end up being successful at this too---and remember one immutable fact---I'm never wrong...

I doubt that anyone is going to go to "hell" for getting divorced.<P>"Hell" is what we make for ourselves. God gives us the power to make our our decisions and follow our own limited wisdom in this life--he loves us enough, he wants us to progress by allowing us to make mistakes. It's how we learn, how we grow to be wise. God will not intervene unless we ardently ask him to. And he will not "punish" us for what we do in our weakness. We punish (learn) ourselves.<P>I was married before, and, wouldn't you guess, Bernzini is not lily white either. My 1st hubby was the perpetual child, the fat guy with three left feet whose whole aim in life was to hang around with his looser, druggie buddies at the neighborhood basketball court while I worked my butt off to pay the rent. I was young, and the big picture was not clear. I dumped the guy, totally out of love with him, and had myself a short little fling first to justify. I had just joined the army (to better be able to pay the rent.) It was 25 guys to one girl in Alpha company, and I felt like a kid in a candy store. No regrets, and I got rid of the loser. (Unfortunately, my kid from my first marriage went with him--and I will forever pay child support and raise my little girl by phone and summer visitation.)<P>It was clear to me at the time that I would never, ever feel sorry for it. The guy was fat and nasty! He had no ambition. He was intellectually inferior to me (I can speak Russian, Korean, French and Arabic--all he knew was basketball-ese, so I found him quite boring.) My parents couldn't stand him. And my friends thought he was a dork. I thought that I was most definately doing the right thing by following my feelings.<P>WRONG!<P>Had I known then what I know now, I could have turned things around, possibly, and made myself happy with him. WE could have gotten counseling and grown old together, you never know. He was not a bad guy, and I had loved him once enough to marry him. But I had limited knowledge at the time. Believe it or not, my divorce from my 1st husband has been the source of the greatest pain I that have experienced til now. This one thing is what keeps me strong in what I face now--being betrayed by a guy that I "really" love. Because of what I know now through the mistakes that I have made, I have grown up and grown stronger.<P>Oh, to get back to the original topic, sorry.<P>NOW I have regrets for what I did and always will. I never apologized to anyone but God, and I doubt that I ever will. (X-H is still, if not more, yucky as ever.)<P>But, bottom line, no one is ever going to "burn in Hell for getting divorced." But they will go through unimaginable pain, and perhaps unecessarily. There are always other options, you just have to search for them. Sometimes what you feel is not what is real.

I'd rather be riled up than dormant...don't let me be someone you worry about .<P>I just want to share my hard-learned experiences with you. And when I claim my choices and know that I have acted proactively (even if wrong or mistaken), I feel more in control of my life.

Kathi,<P>No-one leads well or follows well after just a few lessons. You will both improve with practice and think of how much fun it will be to practice! <P>Bernzini,<P>It's interesting that you look back at your divorce from your 1st H with regret. I don't regret my decision to divorce my 1st H at all. He was an alocoholic. He lied to me constantly. The money he didn't spend drinking he spent on drugs and gambling. He neglected our son. He gave me an STD. He stole money from my sister on our wedding day. He cheated on me with a minor (I didn't find this out until later). He has since straightened himself out, but I don't think he would have if I stayed with him. I think that divorce was the wake-up call he needed. He is now married to a nice woman (much older than he is - he needed a Mommy) and is much happier than he could have been with me (I had very little respect for him in the end). I am much happier than I could have been with him and I believe that, although the divorce hurt my son, growing up with him as his primary role model would have hurt him more.<P>I think my decision to divorce my 1st H was the best decision I ever made. If I rot in Hell for it, then so be it. I'm sorry I married him in the first place.<P>My current H is a good man. Kind and loving and doesn't do any of those really bad things. This is why I feel so conflicted. If he was a jerk in any way I'd be gone in the blink of an eye. I feel bad about not feeling for him the way I 'should'. I feel like a fake if I behave in a loving manner towards him because it doesn't reflect the way I feel. He deserves to be loved. I'm afraid that I might be incapable of giving it to him. Of course, K could be right that my current state of mind could be coloring (or greying?) my perception. Maybe after I get on medication, I'll have a different outlook. Time (that dreaded 4-letter word ) will tell.<P>Lor, <P>I agree. Riled up is a lot more interesting than dormant, isn't it?

Not regret for leaving a bad marriage--regret for the way I ended it, I have to clarify. I had an affair of my own, I guess what they call an "exit" affair, no sex, but I was so sick over it. I even called my mom to tell her right away. (She said "It's time you got rid of that bozo by any means," but I still felt awful about it.) I regret for being young and naive enough to marry him in the first place. I regret being so nasty to him, whether he deserved it or not.<P>The whole point of my post is that we learn by making mistakes, so we should not beat ourselves up for doing crummy things when we don't have the wisdom to choose otherwise at that point in life.<P>No, the whole point of my post is that WE WILL NOT BURN IN HELL for divorce. Didn't Jesus say that divorce was wrong and not the ideal, but because of the hardness of people's hearts, sometimes it is permissible, understandable, recommended. . I don't know, I don't have my Bible sitting right here, and I know that I would be beating a dead horse because this has been THOROUGHLY covered in other threads.<P>One marriage partner or both could be terribly misguided, lacking the spirit of goodness, or downright evil, but through divorce and other heartaches in this life, we will learn and gain wisdom. We will not be punished for divorce.<P>Provided that we do not become bitter, hateful and discouraged, we will learn for the better. <P>Divorce can be a good thing. . .if only to give a fresh starting point in life.<P>I learned from the end of my first marriage what it takes to stay strong for my second. Not to criticize, to tolerate, to be accepting, to express love instead of let things stagnate. These things that I didn't do in my first marriage.<P>What I regret in my first marriage is that I didn't do these things. Maybe things could have been different, dunno. <P>All I know is that the marriage brought a child into the world that has a lot of trouble because her parents are not only divorced, but STILL constantly at odds. That's what hurts so much. I firmly believe that we should do as much as we can for our kids--our own feelings should be carefully weighed against theirs.

Okay.. my .02 worth..<P>I surely can see where everyone is ocming from.<P>You all have great things to say.<P>Now, as the betrayer.. I can understand what you are saying as to feeling like you do not want to be a fraud. I asked once if my husband forgave me. NO it doesn't make anything change.. saying I was sorry for hurting him.. didn't change anything either.<P>What i have is a husband who is now riding the fence. HE says he is still here, I say, Why? He says "the reason we moved is because you (this is bad) couldn't stay out of everyones bed"... now this is said in an heated arguement.. but.. if it can be said then he truely hasn't forgiven me.<P>I think true healing from the horrific boat ride of adultery is in forgiving yourself. How do you feel sorry for likeing what felt so good? emotionally, physically what ever? I am not sure.. but seeing the pain my husband has gone through makes me feel sorry for putting him through the pain. <P>The guilt i feel for betraying..is horredeous. I cannot be sorry enough if he isn't truely going to forgive me. IF everytime there is a conversation he rubs it in my face. <P>To forgive means to become vulnerable. To take those walls down means you could get hurt. <P>I have to agree with Peppermint.. she always has such great words of wisdom..what she said is in a nut shell.<P>I would never again ask for forgiveness.. until the BS is ready to give it they will tell you.. until then you can learn to forgive yourself for falling in love with someone else(fantasy) and move on.<P>I would also recommend.. Gary SMalley :hidden keys to loving relationships:.. very good series.<P>good luck,<BR>mercy

mercy,<BR>Please consider that Forgiveness can exist with legitimate anger. Just because your H is still angry the affair happened doesn't mean he hasn't forgiven you.<P>Forgiveness does not erase all hurt or feeling. It does release the bitterness, resentment and hardness of heart. And although what your H said in anger was a big fat LB and disrespectful, so obviously not an appropriate thing to say, if you did move because of the affair, then that may be more of a sad fact than anything else. Has your H suffered hardships because of the move?<P>I think you are using your H's words as "evidence" of unforgiveness and that could be a very big misinterpretation with grave consequences. Talk to him about it.<P>It is not that I think betrayers deserve "punishment", but sometimes the sad truth is their are natural negative consequences to all involved in infidelity, both WS and BS. <P>Just consider how your H might view his feelings and be careful not to interpret them for him. OK?<P>Take care!<P>Also, be