CAUTION: I'm P/O and having a Teritz Syndrome attack!<P>Boy, I'm sure up late. Lots on my mind.<P>Well I paged my H this morning. He called me back. Told him I had something to deliver to him for his BDay and asked how could we connect.<P>He suggested I meet him and his boys at a BBQ some of our very old friends were having, do you belive this, he invited me to a Shindig where all his friends were and his boys (the OW's son). I wanted to go so damn bad but had a massage appt. So I told him to call me aft the BBQ and we could hook up then. He called me 6 times on my cell from the BBQ just to talk and make sure I was still gonna meet up w/him.<P>So he calls me from home finally and invites me over to his new house, WHAT A DUMP! <sorry> First time I've been there. My counselor told me she thought he'd never have me over.<P>I go there and the OW's two son's are there, one of the boys is not even my H's son but H is treating him like he's his dad. TOO WEIRD!<P>Anyhoo, I get outta my car and he comes up to me and hugs me, I start to kiss him and he turns his head .... [censored] HOLE! You know why he turned his head, the OW's elder son (11 yo)came out on the porch. I was soooooo flippin mad BUT I did not LB and I just said to myself "get thee behind me Satan"<P>Every time I've seen my H he kisses me ALOT.<P>I go into his house and it smells like doggie pee Big Time (he doesn't have a dog). He shows me all the things he did around the house, things he would never do around our home unless I pleaded w/him.<P>Then we open his presents, he absolutely loved the watch. I showed him the engraving "Forever Yours, Love Joanne (P & C). He asks what P & C means, I tell him Peas and Carrots, they're very different from one another but they are really good together, like us. H smiled.<P>I stayed there for about 2 hours, we took a walk around the neighborhood (a drug dealer lives next door and the place is like a seven eleven, lots of activity) How nice.<P>I brought over groceries and toys for the kids. And I helped my H's son paint a wooden duck I got him. Then I told my H he did a great job painting the inside of the house, and OC says, "Yeah ... me, MOM (OW) and dad did it".<P>OKAY, heard enough ... Time to leave!<P>So, there you have it.<P>I delivered the stuff and now you know what I'm gonna do ... I'm not taking his calls, I'm not answering his emails. I am not going to let him contact me for a very long time.<P>This evening I looked at this man who has caused me soooo much pain, who I have waisted 20 years of my life on, who has ruined my life by giving me no children yet fathers them with women who are literally not worthy and a mess. A man who has done this to me twice in 10 years! I didn't feel very much love for him this evening. I felt pity for him. And alot of resentment.<P>And I also feel so angry that although I'm not beautiful [I think I'm kinda cute tho] I need to be wanted and desired, and he doesn't feel either of those things for me. He feels it for a woman who is ugly inside, by no means is she a good person. She is jealous and abusive and manipulative and mean. And, I'm just gonna say it, she is not as cute as me, she is not even cute, she is borderline ugly both inside and out.<P>I get attention from so many men at my work, the place is 90% male (3K ppl) and the men are funny, successful and smart and "yes" some of them are quite good looking. I am on my last VERY small love deposit from my H and I'm getting damn lonely. And the temptation combined with the loneliness is starting to really weigh on me. I think I want to date, I've been asked out abunch and have always declined.<P>I want to say I'm done with this friggin dance w/my H, but something is holding me back. What is it? Codependency? Catholic up bringing? Guilt? What?<P>Help me out here guys ... where is this headed?<P>Jo<P>------------------<BR>Josie_Res@Hotmail.com<P>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak which can snap in the wind"<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 13, 2000).]

Resilient:<P>I'm up late too, trying to avoid my H.<P>You are so right,you do deserve to be wanted and desired and looks like you are wasting your time where you are.<P>You were so kind to take a gift to your H and food for the kids. Does he not acknowledge your kindness and see how special you are?<P>It appears to me that being in that environment is way out of your league. Do you have any idea how many men would fall at your feet if you treated them this way?<P>Maybe some of these other people on here know more about you (than I) and can shed some light on this issue to better help you, but just wanted to let you know that I'm here with you at this late hour. Our lives are hell, aren't they?<P>I don't want to go to bed, b/c I've been avoiding my H. I don't want sex to be the only need we meet for each other and therefore, I avoid it. I want more, I also want to feel wanted and desired, but I want it before the sex, and I don't get it...<P>You mentioned those children being near a drug dealing area of town, isn't that dangerous for them, does your H not aspire to live in a better place for children? If he doesn't, then I'm glad that those children aren't yours. Furthermore, I don't think you would let a child of yours be subjected to that.<P>If his OP likes to live that way, fine ...<BR>I think I would look at him and also begin to pity him and realize that he has become a pathetic, sad, strange man. You have no children, you say you are cute, then go for it ... You can do better! I just know you can, b/c we reach a point when you ask, what does he do for me? and the answer is usually, nothing...<P>At least you have a shot at being independent, you have nothing holding you back except some slight feelings of dependency on him and you need to fully ask yourself just what it is that you need from him and I bet you, whatever it is, you can do it on your own.<P>You don't need that trashy stuff in your life, turn to someone or something good and wholesome to inspire you to do better. Shine your shoes, fix your hair, stand up and be proud of who and what you are. You've got alot to look forward to. Do it for all of us who are weighed down with other obligations and responsibilities, whose hands are tied and who can't move forward without the help of a low life who has drained us of every thing that we held special and idealized. Someone who ripped our hearts out and stomped that sucker flat!!!<P>You will probably hate me, and I'm in such a negative mood tonight, as I've said before I'm the queen of BASH. So, take what I say seriously or take it with a grain of salt. <P>Wishing you happiness and love ,<BR>Cathy<P>H just gave me a nasty, nasty look b/c I'm on the puter this late, I'll have to deal with this issue now! What the hell, look at what I've had to deal with, right?<BR>

I was dying to know what would happen when he got his birthday present. I think that you are the gutsiest person for doing what you did. I would have found it so difficult to walk in and see his "other" life. I would have felt like an intruder. I couldn't bear to see the "half-life" of someone I loved (and wasn't included in) without having a major breakdown.<P>I can definately relate to your feelings. You are wondering "Why bother when I could have so much more?" And you are definately right for thinking that way.<P>No, it's not Catholic up-bringing or co-dependency (you hardly sound like a dependent person.) And what do you need to feel guilty for? I think that you are a person who has a lot of love and charity in your heart and you are reeling from having what you gave so freely thrown back in your face by someone who is thoughtless and irresponsible for his actions.<P>Of course he loves you and kisses you when he sees you!! You're the best thing that has ever happened to him!! He just can't drag himself up from the dirt pile to be worthy of you, for whatever reason. Maybe he doesn't feel that he is worthy. Maybe he feels guilty, maybe he doesn't feel like he's in your league anymore. It's hard to say. But come on, if he has to live in the hood with dealers, next to the 7-11, that should tell you about his new standards. They are pretty low.<P>You are a loving person, it is evident from the way you treat his children. So don't think that you are crazy for hanging on. It's just that you have a whole lot more than many people inside of you, and that is to be commended.<P>"Love is never wrong--only the lack of it." That's from the movie Rob Roy.<P>I would definately go ahead with the plan B now. You have done your magnum opus by giving him a beautiful birthday gift and by visiting his House O' Nastiness. Now you have made your move, retreat. The ball is in his court. If he cannot understand by now how much you love him, then he never will.<P>I don't know if you should start seeing other men, that's for you to decide. I can certainly understand being lonely, and you don't deserve to be lonely, not with all that you have to give. And it seems like you don't need to waste anymore of your life dwelling in the past, dwelling on people who don't appreciate you.<P>It might be that when he decides to come back to you that you will have outgrown him. I didn't realize until a couple days ago that plan B is for you--for you to help wean yourself off your love for someone who treats you like dukey. It's not necessarily for the wayward spouse to have time to "realize the error of his ways." It's for you to get on with your life, knowing that you have done all that you can to prove your love and desire to stay married.<P>Since you are so cute, a sensible guy would love to get to know you!<P><BR>

Hi Jo,<BR>I have to leave for a work now(gosh I have 3 jobs now! ) so I can't write much but thought drop in and give you hugs.<BR>You did great, you are so strong I'm very proud of you.<BR>I will come back here later..<BR>((((((((((Jo))))))))))<BR>Meg<p>[This message has been edited by MF (edited August 13, 2000).]

Jo, you really are a kind, caring person. And brave. I have not been to my H's apt. and I won't ever go now that I know he is sleeping with OP. <P>I'm sorry you get hurt like this. I'm sorry I'm getting hurt like this.<P>One thing that really gets me... is the type of woman they go for.. the mess's a lot of these women are. <P>The OP in my case is not very cute, and definatley not a nice person on the inside. <P>I think what strikes me, is that our H's seem to have sold themselves out. Do you know what I mean?? Kindof like we believed in them more than they believed in themselves.<P>It seems to me, that when my H has been dealing with our children since this "thing" happened, he is looking at them and seeing the weaknesses in himself... and that is all he is focusing on. With our son especially, who is kind of reserved and a loner, my H has been pushing him. Calling him a shortened (older) version of his name.<P>Made him go to a hockey camp where he slept in a different building than his dad, and only saw his dad on a few occasions. He is signing BD cards DAD and not saying the cute things he did before.<P>It's almost like he is looking at them and seeing his failures...<P>It's the same with me... he sees me and seems to see his failures as a H. It's a bad place to be.<BR>

Hi Jo,<BR>I'm back <P>I re-read your post and imagine how hard it was for you.. before you didn't even know how OW looked now you know. So the imagination became reality. Now by visiting your H's place the life they have together became reality too. That must be really hard.. I'm very sorry you have to go through this. It's very sad you have to think your 20 year marriage was a lie(and I didn't have that long marriage but I feel the same). When your H is with that kind of b&?%h you don't feel insulted?? Looks like he compared you and OW and at the end he chose her.. that shows how screwed up he is.(I'm sorry if this offends you, but I feel the same for my H--even though his OW is just an inmature kid!)<P>You've done very good Plan A and the time you spent together for the last time was really good to remember(for him), so if you are ready I really think you should go to Plan B. Just remember that's for saving your love for him. If you continue contacting you get hurt more. You deserve happiness. You told me your therapist said you were doing pretty good when H wasn't around. I know it will be hard but for now maybe you do much much better without him.<BR>Just a thought, whatever you dicide I will support you, so be strong !<BR>((((((((((Jo))))))))))<P>Meg

I really admire your strength. I would have crumbled being at his house like that. Sounds to me like you are ready for Plan B. You and your H have reached a stalemate, he knows he can have it both ways. Does OW know he still sees you? Well I guess she does now since her kids were there if she didn't before. A little time with you being unavailable sometimes does wonders, it did with my H. Once he started to feel I might be slipping away he panicked. go out and have some fun!

Hi Gang,<P>I received the following email from H yesterday. I sent back a system generated response that my email addy was no longer valid, I need peace for a term.<P>So this morning again I get the same email sent again. Again I sent a system generated email stating my email addy was no longer vaild.<P>Not a game, I need to pull back for a while and think.<P>But please read his email, he says he knows he hasn't been very good, what an understatement. Could this Plan A thing be construed from the spouse as reward for misbehaving and being cruel???<P>See email below:<BR>*************************************<P>Dear Joanne,<P>I finally got the other birthday present you sent in the mail. It is REAL cool. The intel streachy thing and the keychain. When I walked in today my boss was having a meeting with the other tech dudes. I came in sporting my cool new watch, new shirt with Intel on it and new pants and wallet, also my new haircut. And I was 10 minutes early and had answers to all his questions. That's a good start for a monday.<P>Thank you for coming to the house to deliver the presents. I hope there were not to many awkward moments. I know there must have been one or two good ones.<P>This is the coolest watch I have ever had. I know I haven't been that good and maybe I don't deserve such a nice present, but I'll keep it anyway.<P>I Love you,<BR>Steve<P><p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 15, 2000).]

Hey Jo,<BR> <BR> Your neighbor here....<P> I don't know how you do it.You're a lot stronger than me!<BR> <BR>It sounds like you may still have some love for your H.I still showed my stbx my love even though she was stabbing me in the back.I don't know why we do it.I think if I had cheated on her,she would of been gone in a heartbeat,not trying to save her marriage like we did.<P> Maybe like I did,you need to go into Plan B to save your sanity.He can't have it both ways,"Hey,Look!I got two women who want me!"<BR> See what I mean.I think it probably took my W by surprise when I didn't return her calls,or didn't respond to her.<P> We used to be like P&C,too. <P> Hold on...did you say you were paying for massages? When you could have a Danish Deep-Tissue Massage for free?<BR>OK,it's your money,Daisy!<BR> <BR>Try to get some sleep.Just take care of yourself right now.Take care. <P> ~~Murph/TheKentKid<BR> <BR>