Hi.<BR>I wanted to write to ask those, who have been unfortunate enough to live through an affair, whether in some cases there were no real changes in their spouses behavior. I wonder if it is possible for an affair to be occuring and the guilty spouse not to go through some cataclysmic behavioral changes.<P>Is anyone out there who experienced only slight inconsequential changes (i.e.wearing perfume to work)in a spouse and came to find out later that they were having an affair. I mean, is it possible for a cheating spouse to continue making goals (i.e. buying a house, etc.)with their spouse while having an affair?<P>Just wondering<P>oak<BR>

I think it is not possible for the S who is cheating to continue making goals with his/her S while living an A, b/c making goals with someone means commitment and in that moment that person is not commited with his/her S.

I have to agree to trapito. Because my h wouldn't talk or do anything regarding the future. <P>Is it possbile for your spouse to be doing things extra things for you? <P>J

I have heard of cases where that happened, but they seem to be an exception.

I had one of those "unusual cases". We still went out and had fun, had discussions about the future, made love on a regular basis (apparently some days same as OW). I only had a couple of clues, but he explained them away, such as one time when he said he went to a movie alone (which he never does) and another time where he said he was didn't add up. He saw her while I was working, spending time with my daughters or mother, while he was supposed to be "playing cards with the guys". I think his ability to hide it so well had a lot to do with his inability to communicate the problems we were having. He just buried all those feelings or compartmentalized. At least that is out in the open now.

The only changes my H made were his occurances away form the house were more frequent, because he did not want to face me, or the stress of the kids beahavior, which he became increasingly short tempered with. My H's A has been going on for a year, but it is not taking place here in our home town. It is a long ditance A. <P>H started A right before 15th ann. He talked me into buying a boat to celebrate our ann. We have had a lot of fun on it too and the kids love it. I am still trying to figure out the reason for this purchase, now. We also took a trip abroad for two weeks for our 15th ann. We bought tickets to a concert series for this year, it has not even started yet! <P>Yes I would say that things can move along as usual with only a few hints. But if you say it can never happen, then you will miss the hints until it is too late and the A has turned into an addiction; which I understand is rather quick after s*x. I only cought mine because he called "his friend" while my daughter was present, and she has a big mouth. I put it all together very fast.<BR>Look for those hints!

Still don't know what my H was thinking (he doesn't either), but I'm convinced he never started the affair with any intention of leaving his family. We weren't planning any major purchases at the time, but I am pretty sure he would have went ahead with them.<P>Just because it doesn't make sense, doensn't mean they don't do it.

Hi Oakland:<P>I guess I must be one of the exceptions. There were only subtle changes, but I never would have put it together with him having an affair. My H was a heavy drinker. And during the times of the holidays, Thanksgiving and Xmas, he'd always be drinking a bit more, staying out with the guys from work a little longer. Then it would taper off.<P>This time it didn't. Other than that, he acted exactly the same towards me, didn't pick fights or treat me any worse than he already did (being an alcoholic). <P>Maybe if I wasn't so numb to the situation to begin with, I might have seen more signs, but I will tell you this. He started with the A about 4 days after we signed the papers for our new house. And the A was going on even after we moved in! Not too much longer after that, seeing as I found out. <P>But, in short, the answer to your question is an unfortunate YES. It is possible to make plans for the future whilest having an A.<P>May be an exception, I hope that's the case. Seems to be on this board. <P>Looks like you're getting pretty good input from both sides of the coin, though.<P>--purplemag

Hi everyone!<P>Thank you so much for your replies. I have a tricky situation. It isn't really weird - nothing really has changed. I probably am just acting a bit jealose and there is probably no real reason for me to worry. That said, let me tell you about my situation. You see I was very sick. When I began to get a little bit better my H changed a little tiny bit. Initially, he went out with a woman from work and didn't tell me about it. Well he went out with her only 3 or 4 times, but i never was told. When I did find out, I was a bit jealose and strange. he said that he didn't tell me because he knew that I would get jealose. He was right, I did and so I felt pretty guilty. He stopped going out with this woman because he saw how upset I was. (I really didn't want him to do this. I even asked him to carry on as if I hadn't said a thing.) But alas he was stubborn and I have felt incredibly guilty and sort of like a monster. Well, a couple of months ago (he now works in a different place -same company)he began to work out a little bit and began to wear contacts, (which he has always told me -he hates.) I certiainly don't have aproblem with him working out, (in fact, I used to try to get him to take walks and stuff with me.)I also have no problem with his recent no-glasses new look, (he has very beautiful eyes.) It was just the strangeness of it all - sort of all at once. What is also strange is that he usually gets duded up on Wednesdays. I know that I am probably just blowing everything out of preportion and that I should be very happy with he new pains he is taking to be more attractive. I guess I sometimes wonder "why now?" Though our sex life has diminished some-what, he is still very caring and compassionate. We are even planning a trip to the UK in October. <P>How would you interpret this?<P>oak

Hi everyone,<BR>I guess I had one of the unusual situations too. We went on vacation out of the country,planned for the future(securities, money markets, other investments,etc.),went on family vacations with our children and grandchildren, went to political affairs together, etc. I have kiddingly said in the past that our relationship was a table for 10. B/c of H's job, we had many social committments and still do which ow began to want to go to even tho H never left home.<BR>H obviously could separate affair from marriage. Also b/c of his job,made his lies easier to believe.<BR>Peace and love,<BR>Ronnie

I was clueless!<P>Nothing much changed. We even bought a new vehicle just DAYS before d-day, a month before he left.<P>He was "working" a bit more, but not much. As I look back, there were maybe a few "little" signs, wanting to lose weight (he didn't need to) starting to exercise a bit, but not much more. Except our sex life fell drastically.<P>Lori

Oh, I was so oblivious to anything going on. But in all honesty, there were few clues. He came home everyday, same time. I could set a clock by his habits. Always handed me his paycheck to deposit, no changes in work hours, no extra timeoff. <P>We made many decisions on purchases together,,a second home, cars, boats, etc. Remodeling and/or rebuilding our homes.Made plans for retirement(someday)and vacations. Comforted each other through sick and dying parents. He was always there. Or atleast it seemed that way. Apparently he found time. <P>He also considered her "a friend" albeit a secret friend,,someone to talk to. He actually saw her very little,,sometimes once a week, sometimes once a month, and later, once every couple months. He did call her a few times a week. He didn't spend much money on her and didn't take her anywhere, so I really had no idea he was involved with anyone else. <P>With the very few suspicions I had, I also thought I was overreacting, being a suspicious jealous jerk. I felt ashamed to even voice my concerns. Oh, if I could only go back and do it over again. <P>

Just a thought, Oakland -- you say he gets "duded up on Wednesdays". You might just happen to drop by where he goes. As a wife, you should be entitled. My H met OW at a bar where he began innocently playing cards with some other guys. He doesn't drink, just likes to play cards. His "card playing" increased when A began. I even dropped by once and sat with him for awhile and she came in and sat across from us at the other side of the table (imagine her surprise at the W sitting there with him). I had no idea who this girl was, other than her mother worked there. In hindsight, I wish I had dropped by where my husband was playing a little more often, and will in the future.

Okay, here I am, WS . . .<P>I don't want you to worry unnecessarily, but I'll just give you my impression, based on my experiences.<P>My H was clueless about the A, until I confided in him. He admitted that he would have never known anything unless I told him. <P>Okay, here's the deal . . .I've always been athletic and like to work out. Always thought I could stand to lose a few pounds - even thought my H thought I looked fine. I would always try to go on a diet, then eat a cookie or 10 doughnuts - whatever - fall off the wagon. <P>During the affair, though, was the only time I actually lost weight - 20 - 25 pounds. I wasn't huge, but the stress of living two lives and trying to look attractive for the OM - gave me the incentive to actually lose weight. <P>During the A, I would wear outfits that made me look and feel good. I started going to Victoria's Secret more often - not for nighties - but for nice undergarments. Again, my H never knew anything was wrong - looking back on it, I think I was pretty obvious. One month, I spent quite a bit of money at V.S. - but I snatched up the bill and paid it before he ever saw it.<P>Whenever I thought I'd run into the OM - I made sure I had makeup on, hair was done, yadda, yadda. I'm the type of person that I put on makeup in the morning, freshen up after working out, but never applied makeup before leaving work - suddenly I started applying lipstick prior to leaving work - just in case I ran into the OM. I started sucking on tic tacs and lifesavers - ALL THE TIME.<P>Plans, the only plans I put off - at least in my mind - was having a baby. Prior to the A, my H and I had been trying to have a baby for almost two years - suddenly I wanted a new car instead of a baby. I wanted to moved into the city and be near the nightlife. My H thought it was stress, it was my A.<P>Plans, I was there during Thanksgiving, Flew out with him to spend Christmas with his family, was there when his stepfather died, trying to be supportive - all along having an affair. We were planning to buy a boat or a truck and had we found one - I would have gone through with those purchases. My life, with my H didn't stop - I didn't stop loving him or caring about him - I just added someone else to the mix (Let me just mention here - TOTALLY BIG MISTAKE).<P>I worked later than normal - occasionally, nothing obvious, an hour here, and hour there. During Christmas - I claimed to be Christmas shopping - while I was with the OM. I'd rush around and do my shopping in about 20 minutes - spend two hours with the OM - then go home bustling in with packages.<P>I went to great lengths to cover my tracks, always had an alibi. But I never intended on leaving my H. Eventually, that's why I broke off the A, I loved my H, hated the lies, hated the deception. I had to come clean . . .<P>I think different people do different things during the affair. I even worked out with my H, we always worked out together, I was always more into it than him, so he never really noticed any changes. But I did go more frequently - and later in the evenings. Usually, after work, if I didn't get to the gym by 7:00 - I wouldn't go, I'd bag it. Now, I'd work "late," see the OM, be home at 7:30 and want to pop up to the gym . . .<P>I think a WS can continue to make goals, at least for me, I did. But, I was always committed to my H - never had any intention of leaving - maybe that's the difference. You can make those kinds of committments, but I had trouble with the emotional committments - sex wasn't a problem - in fact I tried harder so that my H wouldn't know that anything was wrong. <P>It's a tangled webb we weave . . .I'm just glad all of my cobwebs are out in the open, and we're mopping up the mess together.<P>I think a betrayer will lie to you, tell even bold face lies right to your face - "no I'm not having an affair." I think they can also avoid answering questions - "yes, I have to work late on this project, you wouldn't understand what's involved, but I'll be home in a couple of hours." I think it just depends on the state of the betrayers mind - if backed into a corner, I think I could have lied. Luckily, I decided to come clean, I guess.<P>Anyway, while your H may not be having an A, if things are making you feel uncomfortable, I would continue to ask him questions. Knowing that he may lie to you. Ironically, I'm the "jealous type" too. Always thought my H would be the one to have an A. I was always the one to ask him if he loved me, always the one to mistrust him - he wasn't doing anything wrong. I guess I didn't trust myself - so I didn't trust him.<P>In your situation, I just have to wonder why he went out with her 3-4 times and didn't tell you. . .If it really were nothing, I don't care how jealous you are or can be, if he really wasn't doing anything wrong, he would have told you where you were - without you having to find out. I don't know about this one . . .Knowing what I had done, I'd be leary that he didn't at least have an emotional a with that person. But that's just because I know what I did - it could be totally different for him<P>Try to see if you can have an open discussion with him. Tell him how you feel, why you feel jealous. Maybe it is just your imagination, but I would let him know that "something" is wrong - whether it's justified or not. I don't know. Maybe if my H would have asked me more questions, I would have told him about the A - before it became physical. I wouldn't ignore your feelings - just be open with him. Yes, he could still lie, yes, maybe he's telling the truth, but I think you need some reassurances - I think I'd need them, too. Take Care.

My husband's ex never had a clue. He went to work the same time every day and was home at the same time. We saw each other on lunch breaks or we'd take vacation days and would spend the day together instead of being at work. We would communicate over the computer during the day and would leave voice mail messages for each other at night or on weekends. What he would do though is be more willing to run errands (so he could check his messages or leave them). He also stopped going for walks with her in the evenings and encouraged her to go off on her own more often or with her friends. I don't think he changed his appearances much because he had to dress up for work anyhow. If you had to think of ways that he could have contact with somebody else what would they be and how can you check into these things??

I too was clueless...My H's hobby is riding his Harley, so he often went without me on runs...there was never any scent of perfurme(just road dust!), no makeup on his collar, no credit card receipts...I had no clue and his affair had been going on for over 2 years! We still did things together, made love, etc. I felt really stupid when I found out.......

I posted on another forum to you under the heading "questions" also. I also asked you some questions under the "living together before marriage" section, which you graciously answered. I was under the impression you were living with your boyfriend for the past 4 yrs, not married to him. Either way, I know these nagging suspicions are bothering you immensely. What I find very interesting is that your story is similar in so many ways to what my ex and his live in girlfriend have gone through. She also came down with a severe illness-breast cancer and had to endure chemotherapy, hair loss, and all the other terrible physical illness that goes along with such an illness. She is in remission now to my knowledge, and when I saw them together a few weeks ago, she looks very healthy now. <BR>How old is this man you are concerned about? It could be the beginnings of a mid life crisis, that seems to be common among men of middle age. Although I do not speak with my ex very often, I have noticed that he has grown his hair out, and his clothing style is more updated. My ex did go out frequently to a line dancing establishment freq when he was stationed out of town with the military,but I thought it was to learn the dances that he came back home and was teaching to me {how naivee of me!]. This is where he actually met his OW- I don't know what to say about his duding up on Wed. A few weeks ago, when his OW was out of town for two weeks, he went to local line dance bar alone according to my daughter, and I'm not sure if OW knows or not, but it is the pattern he began with me. They became engaged a few months ago, but no date has been set according to him.<BR>Trust your instincts about what is going on, and if you are not married yet, please be sure this is the relationship you want.Personalities don't improve after marriage--they tend to stay the same or even do some declining. Take care.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by db713:<BR><B>I posted on another forum to you under the heading "questions" also. I also asked you some questions under the "living together before marriage" section, which you graciously answered. I was under the impression you were living with your boyfriend for the past 4 yrs, not married to him. Either way, I know these nagging suspicions are bothering you immensely. What I find very interesting is that your story is similar in so many ways to what my ex and his live in girlfriend have gone through. She also came down with a severe illness-breast cancer and had to endure chemotherapy, hair loss, and all the other terrible physical illness that goes along with such an illness. She is in remission now to my knowledge, and when I saw them together a few weeks ago, she looks very healthy now. <BR>How old is this man you are concerned about? It could be the beginnings of a mid life crisis, that seems to be common among men of middle age. Although I do not speak with my ex very often, I have noticed that he has grown his hair out, and his clothing style is more updated. My ex did go out frequently to a line dancing establishment freq when he was stationed out of town with the military,but I thought it was to learn the dances that he came back home and was teaching to me {how naivee of me!]. This is where he actually met his OW- I don't know what to say about his duding up on Wed. A few weeks ago, when his OW was out of town for two weeks, he went to local line dance bar alone according to my daughter, and I'm not sure if OW knows or not, but it is the pattern he began with me. They became engaged a few months ago, but no date has been set according to him.<BR>Trust your instincts about what is going on, and if you are not married yet, please be sure this is the relationship you want.Personalities don't improve after marriage--they tend to stay the same or even do some declining. Take care. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I forgot to add...concerning going out with the OW 3-4 times and not telling you... When ex's girlfriend was going through chemo, he and I would sit together to watch our daughter play soccer and even went out to eat with daughter after the games several times. He even drove me to a game 50 miles away, and I know for a fact he did not tell her because he didn't want to listen to jealous rantings. These were all perfectly innocent and I do understand why your boyfriend didn't tell you. Give him the benefit of the doubt, unless you know there is something more to it.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by db713 (edited August 17, 2000).]

Dear db713:<P>What? Do you mean "H" doesn't mean helpmate?<BR>Just kidding. I think I explained my reasons fairly well in the "Living in Sin" message board. Perhaps, I was wrong. You see, if I go on and on about my "boyfriend" or "fiance" folks around here don't give me the time of day. I have already tried to seek gentle quidance and had the door slammed on my face when ever my illustrious back-ground came up. No one will hear me. They think: "well, oak isn't married - the problems she's having aren't valid. She should come back to us when she's had the real deal - marriage. I am not allowed to ask the mighty anything and I will never brook a response. This may seem really harsh - but I have already experienced it on this site. Sometimes - I would rather have the profile everyone could accept- so they could hear me. Do you think that I haven't looked around for a web-site like this one for people like me? Another thing - I do think of the relationship I have to be as serious and special as marriage. I always have. When I made the pledge to Christian, it was forever. I come to this place because there are others who seem to have made the same kind of pledge. I truly respect the advice I am given here and I, too am willing to work on my relationship. I get very irritated when people say, "well, it's just going to get worse once you are married" as if I don't have a clue what my partner is like, as if I haven't seen his foibles and quirks. That is an incredibly invalidating thing to hear. True, times are a changing and so is marriage and strangely so is living in sin. If it is supposed that I in anyway reflect the free-love and livin-partnerships that had occured in the 60's, 70's or 80's, I am invalidated. Can we all assume that the partnerships created by "living together before marriage" are the same? Can we all assume that these partnerships are going to change just like our parents partnerships did when they were married?<P>I really don't want to be harsh towards you. I know that you have good reason for your confusion and that is o.k. Sometimes - just sometimes I would like not to be treated as if the answer to my problems is to leave my partner - because he is not perfect. Like all of you I am trying to work on a relationship that IS valid. Sometimes, I am jealose, sometimes there is tension. That doesn't mean that what I have is wrong or should be deserted. Everyone here is working on relationships. Some folks are dealing with the betrayal of an affair, some, even, have to deal with the children produced by said affairs. I don't understand why any window into my life is to be so eschewed.<P>I don't mean to offend, <P>oak

Oak: I am sorry if I upset you because that was not my intention. I see you as another woman just like me going through something in your personal relationship that is causing you pain. I am by no means criticizing you..I'm just trying to understand . Although I personally could not live with someone without being married, I am in no way condemming you. My two older son sons lived with their wives for several months before getting married. I was just concerned about the length of time you had been living together...I thought maybe your comitment level may have been higher than your significant other. I am also sorry that you haven't felt supported here.I welcome you and hope to continue future discussions with you anytime . I am here to learn from others successes and mistakes, and have learned a great deal about human nature these last few months. I hope you will continue to post and we can learn from each other.<p>[This message has been edited by db713 (edited August 17, 2000).]