I'm still here trying to build my self-esteem back up. Still thinking about the previous 13 years and wondering how I've gotton all the blame for H's unhappiness...and still simply accepting it for what it is.<P>But....the thing that keeps getting to me is that I do seem to be the only one taking the beating.<P>I invited H to come and see our littlest off on the first day of K. Last night he balked, and this am he decided to come to the house and say goodbye.<P>Could have been OP that made him do it, I don't know. Her H told me he is constantly worrying to her about me and the kids.... "just outgrew them...gee..but I do feel bad". <P>It was great that he came for little one. She was very happy. H seemed so sad. He always gets tears in his eyes re: the kids. <P>I know he feels bad for them. He is also reaching out slowly to his family. They will come around even though they think he ruined his life. <P>But I'm still the bad guy. I'm the one that chased him away. I'm still not sure how I did that.<P>Even he admitted to stress only the past two years. Admitted due to work. Admitted he never told me. But has not really said anything specifi.<P>I just wonder why he can't admit that spending 10 hours a day with a woman he liked, became friends with, became a knight in shining armor too re her own problematic marraige (ha), who was there at his side all those hours to help him at work, to admire him, to bolster him up...... could have possibly contributed to his feeling for me diminishing!!!! I had about 1 or 2 hours a night to make deposits and withdrawals. <P>It is a heavy weight to feel the responsibility for someone's unhappiness. <P>AT least one thing... When he mentions OP by name he doesn't say it in that mesmirized voice anymore.

I'd like to reccommend a book for you...called "Victory over the Darkness" by Neil Anderson.<P>There is some incredible insights there that could encourage you tremendously.<P>Just a suggestion...<P>You can't change your past tootrusting...so please put that club down...you are valuable...and your kids need you now. <p>[This message has been edited by lighthouse (edited August 22, 2000).]

Hi TooTrusting,<P>You know Tony blamed me for everthing too. In fact he would punish me when ever he did not get his way. I have no control over the weather, governmental system or even other people. I know one thing I have control over me. <P>Even Tony's family would blame me for everthing. Tony would get angry over something they did and blame me. Huh you would say. I do not go to their house, I try to not interact with them at all but it is my fault.<P>I got to a point where I told tony that he is the only person who can make himself happy and that I refused to be blamed and/or punished any more because he is a jerk. I mean he literally would not take the blame for anything. I just told him no one can force you to have sex if you do not want too. <P>Now when ever I get blamed for something I just tell him No I did not and will not be the whipping post. I have taken a great deal of an emotional toll because of his action. NO one is ever worth it. What ever is lacking in him he needs to take care of. It is not your responsability to make him whole.<P>If his need is to be told how great he is for being a wonderful dad than you should but if his issue is with his core being than he has to take responsability for that his self. <P>I know I am not making too much sense. I am still working on this issue myself. All I know is that there is something lacking in Tony himself and it has nothing to do with me. He is starting to understand this and wants to go to therapy and find out what is wrong. I support him in this but I refuse to allow him to push the blame on me to make himself feel good. <P>I have been very firm with him. The other day he said thanks to me for being the only one who really support him. He is starting to come to terms with being a real adult and real life.

TT...<BR>You wouldn't expect him to blame himself would you? Or OW? What ARE you thinking!!!<P>Just keep repeating to yourself...he is out of touch with reality...he is out of touch with reality...<P>Hang in there--<P>Kathi

TT,<BR>You say it is a heavy weight to feel the responsibility for someone's unhappiness. <P>Honey, put that weight down, it does not belong to you! It was certainly no gift, you don't have to accept it.<P>He's a big boy, he's going to have to deal with the results/fallout of his decisions. <P>Unfortunately, so do you, but in NO WAY do you have to accept any responsibility for his CHOICE to have an affair, no matter what kind of wife you were.<P>If you made mistakes or miscommunication you can accept that and go on to do better, but his affair is strictly his own bad behavior--which he NEVER had any right to do to you-- no matter if he wants to pass the responsibility to you.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

If your H looks outside for happiness and fulfillment, any lasting happiness will always elude him.<P>He may get fluffy feelings from time to time, but if his world is EVERYBODY'S ELSES fault and his happiness is SOMEBODY ELSES responsibility, he will be chasing happiness the rest of his life.<P>Nothing you can do about that or people like that.<P>Whether he blames you or not, you are not to blame.<P>You are responsibile for YOUR life, so move forward, grow and learn.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tootrusting:<BR><B>It is a heavy weight to feel the responsibility for someone's unhappiness. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>There is a Buddhist story that goes something like this: (Warning- I am not the smoothest story teller!)<P>Two monks, who had taken a vow of chastity, came upon a woman in distress upon the banks of a stream. She was worried about how to get across. One of the monks picked her up and carried her across. Once they were on the other side, he set her down and the monks continued on their way. Finally, bursting with anger the other monk said, "How could you have touched that woman! You know we are not allowed to do that!" The first monk said, "I put her down. You are still carrying her."<P>You are not responsible for his happiness. Put down the weight. It is not your burden to carry.

TT- No matter what your H tries to tell you it was not your fault!!!! This is your H problem! The only way he can justify what he has done to you and the kids is to make you look like the bad guy. Do you want to know what my H told his first OW about me? He told her I hit him over the head with a frying pan Get real! H is 6'1 about 220 lbs.<BR>I am 5'0 and 135 lbs. He explained it to me this way, he said that he had to make stuff up about me because I never had really done anything to hurt him. I was so pissed off about that for along time. I really wonder what he is telling OW # 2 about me. That I tried to run him over with the car or what <P>Jill

Hi TT,<P>I have played the blame game w/my H. I still do at times. I think thats the main reason I'm not allowing contact. I take the blame for everything anymore. And the funny thing is my H has recently admiited that he does blame me for everything and now says he knows it's wrong.<P>Before my H started to see his boys he blamed me for their existence (at that time it was a bad thing). He said he HAD to go to OW #2 to talk to her about OW #1 screwing someone else and because I wouldn't talk to him about OW #1's and his problems he ended up screwing OW #2 and got her pregnant. So it was my fault for not being there to talk to my H about his problems with his girlfriend at the time. Now if that's not absurd, what is?????<P>I repeated what he said to me to make sure I heard it right and he said "Yeah, that's right it's your fault. You should have been there for me."<P>So TT, my point is, when they do these bad and hurtful things they can't take the responsibility, someone else HAS to be to blame, it can't be them.<P>I think I know what's weighing on you right now, it's because you see him starting to connect w/family and your kids again (just a little) and he's receptive to their love but when it comes to you .... well there's just no way, you are to blame for all of this, you're the reason I had to resort to being a bad guy in the first place, you're the "WIFE" who made me do these things to my family.<P>He can't accept the responsibility of betraying his family, his kids, he can't and won't see himself as accountable for all the hurt he's caused and is still causing and unfortunetly he knows you're strong enough to take the blame, so he points to you as the reason all of this is happening.<P>Nothing in whis world, TT, NOTHING you've done makes you responsible for him having an affair and turning his back on his family and betraying you this way, NOTHING.<P>He is the responsible party, period.<P>Please believe us about this. I know how easy it is to buy into the idea that you could have been a better wife somehow, so you're responsible for your H having an A. It doesn't work like that. Your H has the responsibility to tell you if he isn't happy, he didn't. As recent as April you guys were together and happy, he was his old self and had no real complaints. And even then, nothing he could come up with could justify his having an A.<P>Bottom line TT, your Husband IS the responsible party, no one else, just HIM.<P>Jo<P>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 22, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 22, 2000).]

thanks for all the replies. Don't want to give the impression that I'm toooooooo down.<P>I'm actually doing well. The kids are doing well under the circumstances. And as I have said before, I am truly learning more about my children and my parenting capabilities than I ever dreamed... a blessing.<P>LH--I will check into the book. thanks.<P>Pahakissa, I realize some people are good at blaming everyone and everything else. My H has a track record. In fact, I am the only person he hasn't blamed in 13 years... guess it was my turn. He usually has never been nasty about it (until this time) I just mean he has a hard time painting himself into the picture. He has a lot of internal struggles. In the past, at least 11 years, I have accepted them. I think the past 2 years I have really been contentious about them.....hence...running to soulmate OW.<P>Kam...yes, out of touch with reality! I'll keep repeating that.<P>Lor--knowing that your are not responsible for someones unhappiness is one thing (and I do know it)....feeling it is something else. And it's hard not to feel it when you are bombarded by so much.... like when he says after telling me he wants the kids with OW...."You'll never get over it"... What do you suppose he means...the affair, yes I would get over it. The falling out of love with me...yes, I'll get over it...I understand now how it can happen.... the blatant 16 year old behavior of the two of them, oblivious in their oneness, in this small town with everyone watching, yes I'll get over that too.<P>What about the absolute disregard for my feelings, the kids feelings...little precious kids who witness their father change over night???? I guess I'll get over it. <P>Or does he think i won't get over her with him over me???? and that's it!! That's actually the thing I'd get over the easiest!!!! <P>The treatment, the self-absorption, the emotional abuse are the harder things. They are the life changing, soul changing things that are the hardest to get through, though I will get through them.<P>FHL.... the lesson I will try to teach myself and my children is finding happiness within yourself by guidance of faith<P>Popeye, a great lesson for all of us in that story. Thanks<P>C or W-- It is hard to get past the actual things they say without wanting to defend yourself...this has always been my cross to bear.<P>Jo-- I will not take blame for his lack of happiness. I just wish (though I haven't been so good at showing him these past few years) that he had as much faith in himself and I did in him!!!! He is (or at least was) a very good man!!!<BR>

TT,<P>I had a thought. Maybe what he means by "You'll never get over it." is that he doesn't believe that you will ever forgive him for it. He's having a hard time forgiving himself for it and feels that he doesn't deserve your forgiveness. He feels that because of his own actions the OW is his only option. He doesn't believe that coming back IS an option. He simply doesn't believe that you can forgive him. How could you when he can't forgive himself?<P>I could be completely wrong, not putting the statement in the right context, but I can see him feeling that way.

TS..it was said in anger. More like that's my basic personality. Which it is not. In fact, he is the one who doesn't get over things. Just keeps them in and stews.<P>Besides...he is really acting like she is "the one".... he speaks about being with her for life. They are attached at the hip. Spend hours during the day, now at night and if not together are on the phone all night. Very unreal!!!!<P>But thanks for the thought.

TT,<BR> Your H needs to grow up. If he was unhappy with things, he should have let you know instead of going out and having a fling. Most marital problems in the world could be nipped in the bud at the beginning if someone would open their mouth.<BR> No person has a right to pin their unhappiness on another. No one. You have to be happy inside yourself, before you can truly love another. You can't just look at someone and say "If I had so-and-so, I'd be the happiest person in the world." and expect that to be true. Yes there are things we as people can provide each other that will "add" to our happiness, such as meeting emotional needs, but it is way too much pressure and responsibility to lay on someone, to be their "be all and end all" of happiness. True happiness takes two working together. It's very one-sided of him to lay blame to you for not providing his "happiness". It's also unrealistic, and very immature. But these are just my opinions. Don't let anyone say they are unhappy because of you. The real truth is they are unhappy because of themselves.

TT,<P>I read Truth Seekers Post and then your response to it. And I REALLY think TS has something.<P>Your response to TS was your H said it in anger and you "not getting over it" is your basic personality. Then you said your H is the one who is more of a grudge holder.<P>Well TT, take a look at that ... your H is projecting his feelings onto you, thinking what he has done is so unforgiveable that you wouldn't be able to forgive him because he certainly wouldn't forgive anyone for the same trangressions (him being a grudge holder and all).<P>Do you see it, I do.<P>I think you should say to him one of these eves when neither of you are angry and the mood is right ... that "you forgive him for all of this." Simply tell him you are forgiving him because you love him.<P>Just some Freudism from the Pacifc Northwest, TT.<P>Jo

ktgirl, I do know my H needs to grow up. I was actually hoping this would be his chance, and maybe it still might be. <P>I am not totally responsible for his happiness, but until he gets to his unresolved anger, which I can assure you, does notonly stem from me, he will not get anywhere.<P>HE has been in counseling since Feb. But I know he has just been dealing with the "terrible marraige" issues and his feelings for OP. <P>It may take awhile and he may marry OP and I may move on, but what would be really wonderful is if at some point he would be able to see this situation from anyone else's point of view...like his kids for instance, or even me. <P>But he may not...he does have a pattern, with jobs and with relationships... In fact it was just 2 years ago that he walked out of a job and a partnership in a very similar fashion. I think it is amazing that he doesn't even see the similarities that everyone else sees. He walked out, leaving everything except that OP came with him, as did a few other employees. <P>I think my H gets "hooked" on the person that is giving him unconditional support... the person who never ? what he thinks or what he does. I know that in the past two years I have had a harder time with his indecision and his rash decisions. Might be that I had a point, I just didn't go about it in a loving manner. I suppose I was contentious. You'd think the other 11 years might of unconditional support might count for something, but I guess not.<P>His conscious is still shut off, but I know you cannot live that way forever. At least I know he can't . <P>He may just keep living with his mistakes. Never resolving them. I was hoping that the kids would compel him too, but so far, he has shut himself off from their feelings, except for the tears I see sometimes with them. It's like he knows he's hurt them, but he still doesn't want to take responsibility.<P>Perhaps, now that the cat is out of the bag, so to speak, (admittance to PA, and his obsession or possession or guilt is lessening) and I have just resigned myself to this and am simply nice, yet indifferent, he will get over the anger at me and maybe he'll see alittle clearer. Just maybe. That and an act of God!!!

Tootrusting, <BR>I don't know about the blame thing too much, just had the same experience. My H also said that he just wasn't happy for a long time either. But how could I make him happy if he didn't express his unhappiness? At least that's what I asked him that made him wake up to this one particular fact about marriage. It takes two. It takes two to make it and two to break it. He needed to express his need to you and he failed. You needed to meet his needs but were unable to do so due to his lack of communication. On the night I had my major lovebusting session w/my H I went all out, and told him he needed to communicate with me because, darn it, I was worth it and he needed to open his eyes and see it! I was lucky in that I believe God guided me in the right direction that night to say the things I really needed to say. I am very blessed. Maybe there is still a chance for you to say this to your h, maybe he would open his eyes? I'm praying for you........<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!

Thanks Chicks. I've always appreciated your thoughts. The problem I was having was the personality change. The possession or obsession or whatever. He was NOT seeing me. HE was not hearing me. It was weird. I needed to nudge the stalemate. <P>I did.. and he finally admitted the PA and his soulmate everlasting love for OP.<P>He's not really living two lives now. He is seeing the kids....filing, and now is in a relationship with op tha t he feels he doesn't have to hide.<P>But slowly....he is SEEING me. He won't look at me too much..just a glance here or there. But I'm seeing him too....<P>I did tell him it takes two. The last conversation we had about the A...I told him I couldn't talk to him if everything I said bugged him...if he had animosity towards me. I told him that I couldn't change that. He either had to decide to be able to talk to me or not.<P>I'm only responsible for the 100% of my 50%, no more, no less!! He didn't say anything to that... but the "Highs" I've seen with him and the depression or withdrawal I've witnessed (even to the extent of him turning th eheat on and putting on a sweatshirt) are gone.<P>I do just want him to SEE. He hasn't yet. What he decides to do about what he sees is still his choice though...

TT,<BR> My H has "matured" a lot since we seperated last year. I also have done some growing on my own. It wouldn't have happened this way if we had stayed together, we would have continued being angry and resentful and the marriage would have been over quickly, leaving us to reflect later on about how much of a mistake we made breaking up. <BR> My MIL once told me that she thought maybe we both needed time apart to think things through. The seperation provided that for us. It gave us a chance to rethink things, cool down emotionally. After the smoke cleared, we began to realize that we did still love each other. <BR> I never expected this, I always thought my H wouldn't miss me when I was gone. He says now that is all he did, and he saw things he could have done, and should have done to keep us together. <BR> I can honestly say that I think he has learned his lesson, and so have I.<BR> Maybe this cooling off period will be beneficial to you also.

ktgirl, except that my H is relentless in his pursuit of OP and she of him. they are both in the fog. She is all he can think about. He has already told me he's not coming home, that he is with her for life. He's pretty much equated it with cutting off his arm or ripping out his heart if he has to give her up.<P>He is filing, told her he is filing and I believe he may want to marry her<P>The funny thing is she complains to her H about my H!!!!! Seems he hasn't changed much in th enew relationship.

Hi TT,<P> I also was blamed for everything......I was the cause of EVERYTHING bad in his life....some of the things were so ridiculous. Fast forward a year and he can't remember saying those things(!) and takes total blame for what he did. <P> TT, you've been with him 11yrs. that's alot of history especially with the kids....He(and my H) changed so fast but can change back the other way just as fast. My H sounds alot like yours, always wanted to move every couple of years (the grass is greener syndrome)...never satisfied.<P>How long does a D take in your state? Has he filed? The fact that he is with the OP day in and day out and she is already complaining about him is very good....stand back because it won't be long till she says or does the "wrong " thing.......<P>I know you don't know if you want him back and I felt the same way but amazingly (and I am truly amazed) ,it can be good again.<BR> LU<P><BR>