Bernzini,<BR> I don't think what you did was terrible. It was your way of letting her know what she had done. That's why I said I don't mind her knowing what her "love of her life" says about her now, that she was nothing but a "convenient hole", no relationship was intended, and that this baby hasn't changed that, but made him more determined not to have anything to do with her.<BR> I have continually lurked on the OW board, just perchance to see if she was on there living in her fantasy world about how stupid I was, and how much he loves her (YEAH, RIGHT!!!!) and I am selfishly standing in their way. H says this is not possible, because she's too dumb to use a computer. I guess he's right, I haven't seen anything close to our story there. <BR> I just don't want OW to be encouraged by my pain. She seems to thrive on causing me misery.

adamanteve,<P>Yes it does happen, it happened to me. After finding this site I showed it to my husband who in turn showed it to the OW( he told me he was going to do it before he did). She posted under one alias asking if she should be here and was given a strong vote towards no but came back under a new alias a couple of weeks later, she still comes back from time to time which is why I hadn't posted too much lately. I have recently decided though that her posting, lurking and reading really shouldn't stop me from getting the help I really need nor should it stop me from offering what help I can give.<BR>She and my husband HAD an affair. It is over and she really doesn't affect my life anymore, that is unless I let her. <P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole

Well, that's not the end of the story. . .what I did, when I e-mailed it to her, I put my hubby's e-mail address in the "return address" field, knowing that she would open it if it were from "him." (Anything from her "Nanouchka" has got to be good--her pet name for him; isn't it stupid?)<P>Anyways, she got mad, and sent it back to him. He called me up and accused me of hacking into his account, seeing that his e-mail address was used. (I'm not smart enough to be a hacker, even if I wanted to get into his stuff. Wouldn't I need to know his password to use his account? Well, I really don't WANT to read his mail--what I have encountered in the past has broken my heart and I don't want any more of it.)<P>It took an act of congress to convince him that I did not do that. He is thoroughly convinced that I am out to gt him now.<P>So, that's what happened. Total love buster. I need to mind my P's and Q's fom now on and think carefully before I do something.

Bernzini,<BR> Yes, but don't beat yourself up so much for one mistake. Do think carefully about what you do in the future, but I don't think there is anyone going through this who has not been tempted to confront the OW in one way or another, myself especially. You know better now, just think of it as a learning experience. The fall of your relationship doesn't just rest on your one mistake, no matter what he is making it sound like. He isn't giving you a chance. It's like he's giving you some kind of test there's no way to pass. I wish you the best, just remember this is not your fault, no matter what he says.

Oh, thank you, thank you for understanding, ktgirl.<P>Actually, it seems that you understand HIM better than I do. It IS like he is posing a test that I can't possibly pass. Why he is doing this to me, I don't know. What kind of game is this? Thought that people in love don't try to "win" against each other. <P>I am still embarassed about the e-mail incident. I was so embarassed that I have not really participated on the board lately.<P> I don't know why I am--but I am really unhappy about the fact that I had no way of defending myself against lies that were told about me. I shouldn't care, right? Seeing as how he told them to someone who shouldn't matter to me? <P>He really gave me a lot of crud over it, telling me that he's going to report me to the FCC and all that stuff for invading his privacy. I am wondering if he is really that paranoid, or if he really thinks that I am that low, or if he is just threatening me to look tough.<P>Maybe all three. I can't win with him. I am wondering when I am to give up and understand that he is not going to change.

Bernzini, I think Ktgirl put it well. I also think that the ws does see it as a contest. Also, I think that when they have to face what they've done they do take an ego bruising that makes them strike out at the bs - always the first person they blame for the mess they got into. My h seemed to "reason" that since I forced him back into line and he needed to defend himself against me for quite some time. I'm sure my frequent lovebusters once I found out about ow contributed to his defensiveness. My h simply couldn't handle being the only one to feel like such a jerk. Could your h just be looking for a way to share a little of the shame he's feeling?<P>I forgot to add that this attitude can change. My h finally worked through enough of his shame to truly appreciate and care about my struggle. He now understands that while I did do or say things that I shouldn't have, I did the best I could to get through what I considered a life and death situation with more emotional trauma than any other thing I have experienced in life. His attitude has done a 180, and I do not believe that he has ever appreciated or respected me more. <p>[This message has been edited by wesse (edited August 28, 2000).]

That's exactly what all this is about--shame. He refuses to do anything but "skim" through my letters to him. He's says that I make him feel like a sack of S* while I maintain flawlessness. This is not what I am trying to do--I want to get past this affair, and to that end, try to discuss it.<P>He goes as far as to point out every single thing that I have ever done, including things that I did long before I ever met him. Like how I rocked out of my ROTC class in college, how I don't get along with my parents too well, and how I divorced my first husband (for hanging out at the basketball court all day instead of getting a job, but, hey, I was young.)<P>I really hate this blame game. I don't want to fight it. All I want is to gather up the pieces of what's left of my marriage and try to sort it out--but that requires cooperation with him. He doesn't want to cooperate. He wants to deflect the blame from himself.<P>In frustration, I have done some major love-busting. Not yelling and screaming and bullying and judging, but I know darn well what pushes his buttons, and I have pushed them. Trying to get SOME kind of reaction--hoping maybe he will see how badly he has hurt me and will try to comfort me, make ammends, help me regain some trust. It seems to work to the opposite effect.<P>The OW is the one that I tear apart because I could care less about maintaining a relationship with this individual, of course. It's safe grounds to rip on her. I realize that it's not fair, either, and that she was just an accomplice. <P>However, I could care less if she reads everything that I write, and I hope she does. I want her to know that sleeping with my husband is NOT something that I am just going to forget about. Like my counselor said--and affair is not like a dirty diaper that you just roll up and throw in the trash and forget about. <P>It seems that the betrayed spouse is the one that ends up dealing with the smell for a long time.

Hey Bernzini,<P>I just had to post to you. What KTgirl said was right on! <P>Please understand that it is OK to vent and lose control and make mistakes. It is indeed a learning experience. I myself think that if we never reacted at all it would be because we had lack of feeling-we don't work that way now do we?<P>As for the betrayed spouse dealing with the stink of the situation for a long time you are indeed right. But once again it is because we have feelings and we care.<P>I think my most difficult task has been not only the whole affair but the fact that the OW was a friend and in the last 15 months I have had plenty of time to remember past gatherings and what not and I see that she set my H up in ways. I can only imagine this was done to make it look like it was all his fault. While it doesn't matter to me any more whos fault it was it does bother me greatly that there were lies told. It just adds fuel to the long and slow burning fire of anger within me.<P>But in the long run I am still so very glad it isn't me in the betrayers shoes. If they don't live with it daily and think of it as often as we the betrayed do then they aren't worthy of much in my book <P>Do not be ashamed of what you did. You learned from it and while it may not have been the best thing to do at the time you were in a terrible emotional state and that was caused by them. It is over with now!<P>Best woshes for your healing quickly <BR><P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<BR>"Loyalty Is A Two Way Street"<BR>

Is your h still involved with ow? While my h was involved with ow, I felt that I made little progress. When I did something especially loving, he just shared it with ow, and they planned for the day when she could do similiar things with him as his wife.<P>Once contact with her ended, he began to change, but at first there was much defensiveness when I criticized her or attacked their "special love" for each other.<P>My response was always that I was doing the best I could to handle the situation. However, I readily admitted to him that my reactions were always neurotic and slightly crazy; that my attitude toward her was extremely predjudiced; that it took every ounce of resistance that I had not to go drown her; and that I felt that neither of us owed her absolutely anything. I always acknowledged that my efforts to be nice to her were selfish because I didn't want to be caught up in any kind of relationship with her - even hatred. <P>I said that if I chose to expose all of her ugly deeds publicly, I had that right. I would not do it but only because of my love for my h and for ow's children. I never apologized for my attitude toward her. It took awhile, but once their relationship ended for good, he began to acknowledge that I was not the bad guy.<P>If your h's resentment has gone on for many months, then I would guess that contacts have not ended and that he is still addicted. I think that the thing I resented most in all this was that my love deposits were pearls to swine until AFTER ow was out of the picture. <P>I do understand how hurtful the resentment is. It seems to be part of early withdrawal, but I believe it will go away if he's not still in contact with ow. Sometimes I read of feelings that are incredibly similiar to the pain I felt - or statements from a ws that are so like things my h said. That's what I thought when I read your post. I'm sorry that I don't know more about your history. We've come out ok with h far happier and satisfied with the aftermath than I - typical huh?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bernzini:<BR><B>He goes as far as to point out every single thing that I have ever done, including things that I did long before I ever met him. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hope I did that quoting right...<P>Bernzini,<P>Girl,again I can understand what you are saying! That quote could have been written by me. Your H sounds so similar to mine. My H will dredge up everything that he feels shows how I have "wronged" him. Some of it is pretty ridiculous stuff especially when it's compared to him lying and having an affair. <P>One of the things I am learning in therapy is how to detach. It's necessary in order to not get into the knock down dragout fights. I'm not able to do it often, but the first time I did, IT FELT GREAT! I was being so controlled and rational and he ended up realizing how much of an idiot he was being. He actually apologized the next day for his behavior and that has never happened before!<P>I think the yelling and screaming only justifies in their minds that you have a problem. And if they feel they have a reason to blame it on you, then they will not admit their own fault. If your H can see that you are being calm and rational, he has to accept responsbility for his outrageous behavior. Well, at least in theory that's how it is supposed to work. But I will tell you, with me it has worked.<P>I can't say how far it will get us, but at least I am seeing that he has issues that extend far beyond our relationship. Stepping back and taking a look really helped clarify for me. Helps to ease a lot of the guilt I feel too.<P>Hang in there girl!<P>

Bernzini,<BR> Love shouldn't be about testing each other. We all make mistakes. I think that deep down, he is really filled with loathing for what he has done, and to make himself feel better, he has to make you look worse. Don't play into that. This is not your fault. It doesn't matter what you have done or did way in your past. He's throwing that at you to avoid a discussion on the issue that he caused now. Avoidance. Denial. I suspect that when he really looks deep down into his soul, he realizes that he gave you a raw deal, and knows that nobody deserves to have happen to them, what he has put you through. Don't play the game. Don't try to discuss what has happened, as you know he's going to throw some perceived "past failure" back at you. Just go on about your life. Be pleasant, be cooperative, but don't jump through hoops for him anymore. You don't have to pass anyone's test, not even for love. It's not easy to keep quiet, and I know this for a fact having gone through it so recently myself. But forcing any discussion before he is ready to accept responsibility is just asking him to throw more barbs at you. Let him come around, then start to discuss things, but let him bring it up. If you need to talk, come here and post, deal with your feelings here, be supported, and bide your time. He'll either come around, or make it clear to you that he is not worth your effort. You are not the one in the wrong here. Don't let him make you feel as though you are.

Guys, I don't know what to say. You are all totally right on.<P>In fact, I took my time to post a reply because I just don't know how to respond, I feel so dumb, but I am grateful for your insight. You seem to see my situation better than I can.<P>I feel helpless because I don't know how to talk to him in a way that will make him open up to me. All I do is make him mad.<P>I guess that's why I feel so good about coming here. I would just loose it if I didn't have someone here that I could relate to and to advise me, and things would be even worse than they are.<P>Thanks for your replies!