I really need to know.<P>I spend hours a day on this site(I don't have a job yet), I try to read most everything pertinent. What I am really wanting to know is, from WS and BS alike:<P>Was the A more often in same co., or a friend-- same town<P>Or,like my H's, a long distance one with someone met on a Bus trip? <P>I am also curious if any one did the latter, if you could not see the OP daily, how did the A become such an obsession? My H is way out there. He won't ask for the no contact time, from her, because he thinks she will end it. If OP won't wait 60 days, what kind of love is that? And why would you have problem deciding who, or what you want?<P>He will not take that risk at this time. He definitely loves her, and I am no longer considered. But, thank God, his children and his reputation are being considered! Plus, what an overhaul to move 2500 miles to a city that is too expensive for the common man to live in(much less support another household too.) There is a real chance here for me. But how can I get rid of the OW? Call her and say back off? <P> I think she called here tonite; a stranger with a blocked line, called asking if this the the Gould household, and then hung up very gently. It might be when I found her # last week and called her without blocking my # first. I was too damn curious. Got her answering machine-hung up. <P>Back to the subject. I really want to know what the consunsus is on this, and if anyone has any advice about this EA that is only a PA when he is in XXX on business. <P><BR>Our friend, who I have been talking to every nite talked to him too the other nite. She told me he said he is affraid that after all is said and done, I will leave HIM. Oh, Yea, that is why I coddle and cajole, flutter and flatter, and express emotions when none is reciprocated. Yep-I am doing it just so I can get the last revenge and leave him all alone! <P>I want to know what my chances are. I am still so scared! <P>

Oh, my husband went to great lengths to see his girlfriend--he met her on-line, and had to travel about three hours every weekend to another state to pick her up (he always retrieved her and brought her to his house so that she wouldn't get "caught" by her H.) Think of all the gas money!!<P>They had pretty much nothing at all in common (except for sex-drive) and their chat was mostly just BS about sex (lots of it, fantasy and reviews of how they spent their weekend doing it and how fantastic it was.)And how "awful" their respective marriages were. Not much else.<P>I wondered, too, how she became "the love of his life" When the relationship was just a bunch of silly garbage on the chat all week and sex on the weekend.<P>Know what? It's just excitement and intrigue. It's not real. Might feel real, but it's just an emotion.<P>That's why it's an obsession. If it were "real" then it wouldn't be fun.

Same company.<P>Didn't know about the A until it was exposed and over. Actually it was over because H doesn't want to play along anymore. It was exposed because after she was freed from incaceration she came over to my place and yelled through the closed door. H fessed up.<P>I don't know how long the marriage can last because he is always begging while I am PlanBing him all the time - asking him to get lost.<P>H has no withdrawal at all and doesn't miss OW one bit although she tried contacting him and even coming to our house or lurking outside the wall and waiting for him to come out.<P>I really for the life of me cannot understand what is or was going on.<P>Back to your case, burned spouse,<BR>it seems your H is thinking this Plan A is too good to be true, he can't beleive that you can be so forgiving. I think he is guilty that he is not making the decision immediately? I really hope he can make up his mind soon.<P>My best wishes and prayers to you.

Op is local...too local. She is his assistant and has been working with him for a few years, closely for 2. They work long hours doing intense work.<P>It kept him from home a lot. He was going to lunch with her all the time too. she was definately working it. Playing herself the damsel in distress.<P>They both have their own apts. <P>The hole is deep that is dug. She has 2 kids and her H just moved away. I amplanning on moving close to his family.<P>He is essentially now stuck with her. She is a manipulative maniac. But a good hard worker. <P>I'm sure my H sees no way out. She could give him a hard time....<P>It's very difficult to have it be this way. This is MY life and MY kids life too. This is a small town and we have been shut out of out previous life, and my kids don't know why.<P>Op has told everyone in his office that we had long term problems.....none of which I know about yet but her!!!!

OW was an office temp at his work. After she left she kept calling him, asking him out "for drink" etc because she wanted them to "still be good friends". What a bunch of BS. So the affair started after she no longer worked there. She only lives about 10 mile sfrom us.

My W went off to Vegas to see an old HS friend, and together they tracked down what became the OP. W and OP had a "connection" 14 years ago, and that connection was so strong they had to act on it, despite the fact that both were married! <P>After a few more weekend trips to see her "friend," our marriage was "over."<P>Funny how a few weekends and a couple hundred miles are more important than 5 years and "in front of almighty God and these witnesses," huh?<P>

So that is 3-2 so far. Local is winning; if you can call it that.<P>Bernzini-An online thing must be so bizarre. I hardly ever used the web until this fiasco took over my life. Much less to meet someone in chatroom. Heaven knows how much truth is told over the chat lines. I am so sorry. I would not have the courage to meet that person. Though I am sure that it starts like a game, to be gross and vulger and highly sexual without really identifying yourself. Kind of like getting onto a porno web site. Sorry I am trying to get a handle on what your H must have been thinking. What a mystery. But the A turned real, and that is what I feel so sorry for; I know how that feels.<P>Weep-<P>Yes I hope he is feeling that way, but honestly, I don't thiink he will give her up, she is the most exciting, yet worst, thing in his life. He is ashamed, but hooked. I wonder that he isn't breaking his promise of no contact, he seems to be the one so bruised here. Yea-right!<P>Cjack-<P>Vows and 5 yrs, versus the most wickedly good time ever? No contest, OM wins--for now. My stats are Vows and 16 yers. Mid life crisis, early? I hope so for our sake!! <P>You found out relatively shortly, I had not clue, scratch that, there were clues, I just didn't recognise them. It took 15 months of Ea and PA before I got the picture. His guilt and "love" for the OW made him crack 24 hrs after having s*x w/ me, I stress NOT making love to me. And I thought it was a medical problem--it had been about a yr, since the last time. How can one be so naive? That's me.

Hey B, I guess you're right. I'm just on my "first" marriage anyway! I know what I'll do next time, though. I'm re-writing the vows...taking out all that useless crap about "forsaking all others.":-)<P>And how about "til divorce do us part"?!

The OW in our case was local and my best friend. H commutes to work about 60 miles. She lives in the same town as us but initially would travel to his job and they would have sex in her car on his lunch break. It eventually became more, I know they've done it at my house (once he said) and her house (twice he said) and there's no telling where else. We're still together, no separation -- for now.

Now, CJack, don't be bitter!!!<P>You have every right to expect your spouse to be faithful to you!!! <P>And no marriage SHOULD end in divorce.<P>Vow that are taken should not be taken lightly. <P>There are no if, buts, and exceptions to the institution of marriage--PEOPLE make them, though. <P>Marriage vows should stay the way they are: unending, unconditional, and exclusive love. You have every right to expect this from marriage.<BR>

C-jack<P>Sorry! I did not mean to upset you. Marriage vows are important. It hurts that ours have been trampled by the one we thought loved us unconditionally, as we did them.<P>I did not mean to imply that your marr is less important than mine. Length of a marriage is important, but in the face of an A, it is reduced to the same thing--betrayal and pain.<P>I am only on week 4 since d-day(discovery day) and I have a long, long way to go before I see the light of day! But I will persevere with Plan A as long as I can. I will take any positive behavior from my H as a good sign. I do all this, even though I am emotionally battered, because I love my H and my Children and will do what it takes. Patience and love is all I can offer right now. That is all he needs right now, until he gives up the OW.

OW#1 was a long didtance internet affair that became a local one. H moved her from NY to here in Mn.<P>OW#2 is a local woman who H met while remodeling her basement.

burnedspouse,<P>Read this and just had to laugh. <P>OW and her H live 3 blocks away from us.<P>OW and my H work together--just down the street from our subdivision.<P>Last week I cared for OW's grandmother in my hospital. (I'm an RN...and grandma's o.k--cause I'm a damn good RN!)<P>Grandma lives at the care home OW and H work at.<P>OW's H called me on Saturday. Long story.<P>OW's H and my H saw eachother on the road (they both ride motorcycles) Sunday.<P>OW and my H had a general staff meeting together at work on Monday and later she she used the pretense of a receipt mix up to try to talk with him. (My H cut the phone call short by saying "Uh-uh!" and hanging up)<P>Later that afternoon H and I were going fishing and passed her coming home from work--she turned off on a side road. I guess it was a bad day for her.<P>So I guess you could say we're real local!! Or is that loco?!<P>Count your blessings, Hon. <BR>

BS, you didn't upset me at all. I was being sarcastic in the extreme! For me, humor is a defense mechanism. Sometimes my "humor" can seem a little dark. 16 years, huh? I look forward to the day I can say I've been married that long. Nowadays that's quite an accomplishment.<P>I'm trying to discover just how important my marriage is (was?). To me, it's the most important relationship I'll ever have. I took those vows so seriously I can't come to grips with the fact that she didn't. <P>If its over, I've had a short marriage ended by an extremely short affair. <P>Bernzini: Thanks. It's nice to know that some people still value marriage vows above all else. I came from a family that shunned divorce like the plague. Mom & Dad married 25 years til he died. Aunts & Uncles married anywhere from 40 to 51 years, etc. In my generation, there's only one divorce to speak of.<BR> <BR>W's family is like a revolving door. Her dad is on his 4th or 5th marriage, I lose track. Similar numbers for the rest of the family.<P>Does divorce run in the family? Maybe that's another thread altogether!

Hi BurnedSpouse,<P>I see you've been having a really tough time of it lately, Hon. Been reading your posts. I've been there and will probably again soon, too. You're not alone. <P>I just want you to know that altho your H THINKS he may love the OW ... he isn't going to be true to this woman ... no way, no how. He and you have children together and a history together, she is a transitional woman. It's simply a matter of time.<P>I believe you want your H to come home and be the H you've always dreamed of, well, I say it's up to you. I know you don't want him back the way he is, right? I surely wouldn't. You want, and more importantly deserve, him to be a dedicated, devoted, in love and the best he can be H. The man you married!<P>So I say "work on you", "change you", "change your responses to him", "be good to yourself and the children and let him fend for himself for a while". <P>You're his emotional rock that he seeks out when he's alone or feeling down, he always enivitably turns to you, not OW. It's really hard to see this when you're in the middle of it, BurnedSpouse. I don't see it in my situation but people tell me it all the time, that my H depends on me and without me he'd crumble.<P>When he does something blantantly hurtful directed at you, tell yourself it's not worth the stress or the wrinkles it'll cause to let it get to you. Give him something to think about, BS. Change your reaction to him.<P>Okay ... Okay ... Okay ... off my soapbox.<P>Now to my response to your posted title: <P>My H's OW lives 20 miles away. My H got there in 10 mins whenever he could, he raced on the freeway. His A addiction when living at home was so hurtful, but if I wasn't being hurt by it I would have been laughing my butt off because he was acting like an idiot, a stupid teenager, gazing into space, walking around like a zombie. Flenching whenever I tried to touch him, and saying weird things like "How life is like a garden and we're all little flowers, some of us get watered and bloom and some wither and die" .... sheeeesh! <P>Ummmm, Oh Gee ... Thank you Grasshopper for your words of wisdom! Schmuck!!!<P>And some of us get over fertilized and suffocate from the smell!<P>He was and probably still is OUT THERE!<P>So in answer to your question, My H's "Thing" lives 20 miles away. I wouldn't consider 20 miles long distance or remote.<P>Best and hope you're doing better, BS.<P>Prayers,<BR>Jo<P>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 29, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited September 01, 2000).]

7 to 3--local ahead by a long shot!<P>Cjack--good. I am glad to know I didn't ruffle you! 16 yrs is a fine number, but 17, 18, etc would be better! <P>Leiliana--You really have to deal with it, don't you? I don't know th rest of your story, but I wish you more... <BR>Also, are you still going to do my dates? <BR>Mine 1/31/64, H's 4/15/61 <P>Resilient, Jo--thank you for your encouragement. I do not post topics very often, but I do a lot of venting through my answers to others. Thanks for noticing. I take comfort in your conviction my H won't give up the ship. I never thought I would ever be so resilient . I always thought if this happened to me, I would kick him out; or more likely it would be me! I surprised myself too at how much I really love him. I will work hard to make him see it.<P>You said that he sues me as his emotional rock, his base. i am afraid that is not so at the moment. He has not spoken about private things for several years. I think it started when his dad died in '87 or '88. But it continued until he had to find womeone else to talk to. that is why he fell so hard for the OW. But he is crumbling. I hope he talks to me soon, he need my help to work through this mess, and his very full heart. But at the moment we need to work on our friendship too.<P>But it is getting better. He called from mexico(bus trip) and he sounded like he really wanted to share it with me. I missed both calls!!!He seemed chipper about telling me about it when he gets home. I hope so. He hasn't done that since he started the A. <P>I wrote him a letter to his email since I could not call him. It was full of I believe in you's and love you's, etc. I hope he gets it before he comes home. <P>Let's have some more respond to my little survey! Get in there and go for it! <BR><p>[This message has been edited by burnedspouse (edited August 30, 2000).]

Burnedspouse,<P>Don't wish me more!! I don't think I could handle it!! <P>And of course I'm going to do your dates--You're at the top of my list this morning! Give me about an hour, Hon. <P>Aloha, <P>Leilana<P>

Ok..here's a vote for the long distance relationships. The OW in our case lived over 4000 miles from us. B met her through an online game they both played. They talked practicaly non-stop for three weeks before he made up an excuse to me and then flew out to see her. They shacked up for six weeks. Two days before he left he didn't even know her last name! <P>I knew from the start something was wrong but being the supportive wife I was I wanted to believe he was there furthering his career. I figured it out a couple of weeks after he had been there and confronted him about it. He managed to convince me it was already over but he had to stay there for 'work'. I so desperately wanted to believe him. <P>Anyway...he had to come back to me and real life eventually and he did but the fantasy of the affair lasted another two and a half months via the Net and the phone. I plan A'd as well as I could but I drew the line and LB big time when he started talking about us moving to where this girl lived. <P>The beginning of the nightmare was almost two years ago. He realised (eventually) that this girl would ruin everything we had built together and he wasn't willing to give us up. We have had good days and bad days but I have to say in the last six months we have had a whole lot more of the good days <P><BR>

co-worker.

Burnedspouse,<BR> Here's another local. She lived next door to us in the trailer park. When we separated and moved into the city (seperate addresses) she managed to move herself here also. Persistent, ain't she?