Just curious. If you come home and tell your spouse that the whole marriage has been a waste. That you were just "pretending". All kinds of other horrible things about the spouse.<P>Why lie about the extent of the affair! (i.e. that it is physical and has been and is not just a great friendship)<P>Even when I said it all for him very calmly, my H continued to lie about the physical aspects. I just don't get it. I mean all the other "stuff" said and done... was enough to crush me. If you're so unhappy in the marriage and want out. Why not drop the big bomb and be done with it?????<P>I don't know, maybe he thought I'd ruin his reputation or something!!! HA

delete<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Trapped Mom (edited March 20, 2001).]

I never heard the marriage-is-a-sham statements. She did deny the affair, though it seemed she believed it had to be physical to be an A. [Insert article posted by terri] Yeah, the just-a-good-friend thing I heard.<P>update: still working down south with OM; nothing has been filed. Though she may be plotting, she has not approached me about <BR>it.<P>rrunrr<P>------------------<BR>Almost anything can be undone or forgiven.<P>Never take trust for granted.<p>[This message has been edited by rrunrr (edited September 02, 2000).]

Do you suppose it fuels the fantasy part?? My H's has been very "fantastical"... soul mate.. special "bond"....whatever.<P>They both were paranoid also. H apparently thought I had a PI... OP told her H as recently as the past few weeks that I was having her followed.<P>I don't even know where she lives. I don't even know my H's addresss. I haven't asked. I haven't snooped (except in the beginning when I was looking for drugs and found the note from her)<P>All I'm doing is trying to shield my kids.<P>Maybe if they deny they can keep it "special". It certainly takes on a different color when colleagues and family know...

Wow. That one really hit home for me, tt. I thought I was reading about myself for a second there!<P>My W lied about the A, and continues to lie. She said she lied to avoid hurting me...ha! She told me she wanted a divorce a week before I found out about the A. Confronted her...she lied. A few weeks later, as she was moving out, she said she wanted to hold off on the divorce, and that maybe there was a chance for us. Lies!<P>She tells me she's "confused" and doesn't know if our marriage is really over, then e-mails OM and says she can't stand to be without him! <P>Her therapist told her "no contact" with OM, and I ask her if she's keeping up with that, and she lies about it...planning on flying to see him next month! <P>It's to the point where I don't even know what truth is anymore!

I think that maybe the act of forincation (having sex outside of marriage--well, these days, for those who are already married) is so deeply ingrained in the human psyche as a terrible sin, even to those who don't believe in any kind of religion, that denying it seems to be in the best interest of those who are adulterous.<P>Nobody ever said "Thou halt not share thy deepest innermost feelings with someone of the opposite sex." or "Thou shalt not go out to lunch with thy co-worker." But we all know that making love to another person is a big kahuna--especially if we are already vowed in marriage to yet another.<P>Could it be, also, that love-making with a "friend" is a violation of the most personal and intimate activity shared between husband and wife, and is therefore difficult to admit to? <P>My husband, too, lied about having sex with his "very good friend," all the way until I had indisputable evidence that proved it. Then, he reluctantly admitted to it, long after I knew that it was a fact. Maybe he was ashamed to admit it to himself, that by saying it, he acknowledged that it really happened, thus making him a scumbucket. Gosh, we can't admit to that, now can we?<P>A sidenote: Guys, I think that I am a little different than most of the people on this forum, and you can bash me if I am wrong, but I can easily forgive the emotional attatchment to a skeezer who ditched her own family to get with my husband. I can handle being dissed, dumped, abandoned, lied to, and jerked around by a guy who was "supposed" to love me and stand by me for life. <P>But I have a very very difficult time forgiving him for having sex with another person (s.) In fact, I don't think, were we to reunite, that I could let him touch me without having a major attack of post-traumatic stress syndrom. I am completely serious.<P>I read about every sex act between them, and much too late to take it back, I realize that I should have left it alone. I know where his "thing" was. I don't think that I could stand it anywhere near me now. Which, if we were to get back together, would not be a complete marriage. I don't really think that marriage without sex is complete, and again, you can tell me otherwise. In fact, I wish you would. And you guys are probably thinking that I am very weird, but that's unfortunatly how I feel. I wish that I could change this.

It's funny Bernzini, I feel the complete opposite.<P>The sex I can handle. This is probably a sexist statement..... but I think sex can and will be sex... especially for a man.<P>I have a much harder time with the soul-sharing. That's what was so special to me.<P>Not only the soul-sharing, but that she, OW, has the impression that she is the only one who "touched" that special place with my H.<P>And I know that is NOT true. <P>I can only hope, that in my H's case, he changed himself enough (which from what I have been witnessing he has) that what he was sharing was of "someone else", not the man that has been sharing with me for 13 years.<P>That's not to say that if I were ever to be intimate with my H that I would not have flash backs! I would. But I bet it would be harder for him than me.

I guess that's what I thought, too, in the beginning.<P>When I first found out about the affair, I was told that "she is just a girl that I chat with."<P>I was extremely upset right there! I said "But you had ME to talk to! You had me, and I have wanted nothing more than to be the one you confided in!" I was so, hurt, because my husband is a really private person, and I have tried to hard to pry open his shell. It only makes him feel, I guess, more protective of himself.<P>Then I read the chat, in time. And I saw what an absolute shallow DORK his affair partner is. She is plain weird--to me, anyway--and as much as she defended her chastity, she is nasty, too. I realized that intellectually, she had nothing on me. Or common-sense-wise, either. Her talk was full of weepy self-pity, chatter about all her friends, corny movie quotes, and anything that would prove that she was sucking up to my old boy. (Do you like pistachio ice cream? If you do, so do I! We're soulmates!)<P>Oh, and of course, sex stuff. Tons of it. Including descriptions of taste and smell sensations.<P>I think, at the point that she sent her picture to him, that's when he made his "selection." (He had a couple of other chat friends going on at the same time.) She was the most attractive to him.<P>He didn't stop, there, either. He has many, many cybersex partners. He met at least one of them in person that I know of, in an arranged meeting.<P>Now I know that the "sharing" is "sexual." At one point, he even told his main squeeze that he thought that "love and lust are the same thing."<P>My husband has a tomcat problem, and it freaks me out. Maybe it is a problem that is conceived of a lack of ability to get close to people in any other way. Or maybe he just wants to share his fantastic self with the world and bask in admiration. This just seemed to manifest itself after 6 years of our marriage.<P>I also realize that this is something that is so difficult to cure in an individual, also. Especially if they refuse to be helped, because to them, they are doing nothing wrong.<P>I don't know--is it natural for a guy to fall in love just for the sex? Being that sex is usually an important emotional need for guys?<P>I find this kind of disturbing--maybe because I am not a guy and can't think of sex as being "just a pleasurable activity." I see it as being a connection between individuals who are in love. So, me associating sex with love, I see me as being 86'ed from his life forever after he had sex with someone else. I mean, he couldn't love ME if he did it with someone else!!!<BR>

You know something TT, I could to this day call my infidel of 10 years ago and ask him a question about something I KNOW the truth about and he would STILL lie. I don't even bother to reason why.<P>One X-Mas he gave me some weird clothes (like huge green velvet pants!). I went to the store to return them and I can't remember how, but I ended up seeing the receipt for all he had bought. On the receipt was a ladies coat. I didn't get no coat !!!<P>Suddenly it hit me. OW who he was not in contact with (ya right) had been walking around in this new coat. I ran out of the mall and called him at work with my accusation. He DENIED it up and down.<P>So, I went back in the mall and bought myself the same coat. It was funny to watch both jaws drop. The OW stopped wearing her coat too !!!<P>Okay, I was really young then and did silly stuff like that.<P>I realize that this is all very fresh for you and how painful it is to deal with and get through the days. You're doing a great job.<P>For those of you headed towards recovery I can fully understand thinking about where "it" has been. Ick, yuck, blech, I agree. <P>Since I am being totally open tonite for some reason here is something that I will NEVER get over: *** WARNING ADULT CONTENT ***<P>There is a sexual thing that lots of people do that can irritate a man's face. My H always had very delicate skin. During the heat of his affair he came home with a raw face. That REALLY PISSED ME OFF. And of course, raw faced and all he totally denied what he had been eating of late.

I think they lie because they don't want to lose face and deep down they never really want to jeopardize their relationships with us. They're enjoying the excitement of this little fling and don't want to be forced to give it up until they are darn good and ready. If we found out they'd lose, one way or the other,spouse or OP.Honestly, I think they are, most often,most worried about losing us. Once caught in the action,I think it then becomes a battle for finding really good justification and they lie(to themselves and us) as to all the reasons why they did it.I think it gets to a point where they really have to start to believe their justifications just to try to maintain some control in the fallout. An affair really isn't a very becoming thing to be involved in,unless (they think) you have a really good reason for doing it.Are there any good reasons? I know most of us would agree there aren't,but WS has to come up with something. Whether it's true or not, I don't think matters to them once they're in the thick of it.

Hi Guys,<P>Lieing, boy do I have some things to offer on this subject, considering I'm married to Pinocchio. <P>About 1.5 years ago, in a weak moment, my H admitted he lies all the time. I asked him why he lies. His response is that he "can't" tell me the truth because it's too hurtful.<P>So here's my take on that "EXCUSE" (not a reason)<P>My H is a conflict avoider, when he lies he protects only himself (he thinks). But why does he lie in the first place, you ask.<P>Well I think it's an addiction in itself. I think for my H it's a self esteem problem related to control issues. If he can manipulate me with lies he THINKS he's controlling things and feels better about himself.<P>I don't believe he is trying to protect ME when he lies. I believe his lying is all self serving.<P>Jo

You got me why they feel they have to lie. I think they are just so screwed up in the head that most want their cake and eat it to. If they can get by with lying then they not only get the OP relationship they get to keep their families too. I myself caught my H in so many lies that finally I told him that I wanted him out. Then he looks remorseful like a kid who got caught stealing bubble gum.<P>My H too seemed happy with life. Then all of a sudden it was just pretend and he had been miserable for 16 yrs. Yeah right! <P>Lying is part of this fantasy thing. Once the lies quit I think the relationship becomes boring and eventually just not fun anymore. <P><BR>Jill

delete<p>[This message has been edited by Trapped Mom (edited March 20, 2001).]

I'm thinking more on the lines of keeping the "fantasy" going vs. not wanting to hurt us. I came out and told my H that I thought they were sleeping together.. when he was lying about it. I said it very calmly. I told him I wouldn't ruin his reputation, destroy his relationship with his kids or family. I told him I would try to find my own life..... I'd be OK. etc.etc. And he still lied.<P>Course he can't lie now!!! I wonder if it's getting boring yet!!!!! (excuse my sarcasm) I know how horrible this situation is for all concerned!!!

TT- Hey I've been very sarcastic lately so no offense here. Do you think they lie because they themselves can't believe what they are doing? Maybe their consence gets the better of them and they just can't deal with the reality of their guilt. Or maybe they just like the game and the excitement of it all. Or maybe just a little of both. I guess I'm just tired off trying to figure H out.<P>Jill

I hear ya all....my seems to be a master of the art ---- or skill.....dosn't even seem to know he's doing it...<P>and when he gets caught, and knows he's caught - he embellishes it - I guess to make it'better?'...don't get it anymore..<P>J