H got up early to run errands. I waited til he had showered, had coffee, the I gave him my speach. His response? Well I guess I will go find an apartment then!!!! What!!!!! He said he wanted out on May, he said in August that he would be moving the first of September. Now that I want him out he will start looking?????? What is up with him? I guess he got his wish for me to kick him out so he doesn't have to take responsibilty. <P>No denials though, and I aven added and I am afraid she was in our house while I was away.<P>So now I want really bad to call and leave a message with OW and say I still love my H and I know she was in the trailer and I want her to stop calling here. I know, never call the OW. But I am afraid H will continue to lie to her. <P>I feel scared, afraid I kicked him out when he wasn't planing on really going. I am angry he has left me in limbo when he said he was leaving then didn't. I feel free, maybe he will leave and I can stop feeling so bad all of the time.<BR>Lora

Lora, <P>We're still here.<P>You said you feel scared...angry,...but also free.<P>I find I'm taking deep breaths just from reading your post.<P>Good luck, it will be an interesting weekend!<BR>rrunrr<BR>

Lora, <P>We're still here.<P>You said you feel scared...angry,...but also free. :confused<P>I find I'm taking deep breaths just from reading your post.<P>Good luck, it will be an interesting weekend!<BR>rrunrr<BR>

Sorry about th double post, lora.<P>*#$@%&$ back button!!!<BR>

Did you give him a deadline?<P>At this point, you can do 2 things. Kick his hiney to the curb...or do some more waiting...but no being a doormat. He can't date AND stay home.<P>If you want him OUT. He can go to a motel, he can stay with a friend, offer him the camper...you don't particularly want it around at this time. You can MAKE him leave, if that is what you want.<P>If he hasn't been looking for a place, is her place an option for him? <P>I truly wonder how he thought he could go camping with her and come home and just limbo on with you. But my H did things similarly. It just doesn't make any sense.<P>I wish you could research Kat1 in GQ at this time, maybe you could find her posts in the Read Only. Her H planned to move out, loaded up his car and never left...and he ended the affair of his own accord. <P>You've thrown the ball in his court. The next move is his, but you can stop playing (Plan B).<BR><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).

psst...Lora, Lor<BR>Here's the URL to Kat's story: <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/004497.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/004497.html</A>

RRunrr,<BR>Thanks. I do feel alot of things, most of them confusing, and I'm not sure what the results will be, but mostly I think I had to do this. <P>Lor, I said by the end of this week for him to move out. We shall see. I found a suspious hair in his tub last night when I took a bath to relax,so I think she was here while I was on vacation too. <P>Apparently he did think he could do anything and still stay here.Is this a fault in how I plan Aed do you think? Not being clear enough that I would not tolerate that type of behavoir? I don't know, but I guess I will try not to take the blame for it like I usually do.<P>Wass, and Lori, thanks for the recommendation of Kats post. I enjoyed it, but again, feel maybe I should have been more patient and waited for him to make the move. I don't know. Then again I have been patient for a year now, and the only moves he is makeing is to get more bold with her.<BR>I guess I did what I had to for me to survive this and my anger was going to get the best of my plan A if he stays here much longer.<BR>Lora

Lora<P>A year, you are the chamion of plan A! Hon, you have given him more than enough time to get his life back in order, and dump OW. <P>Plan B is definitely right. Give him a shot of the "Eliza Doolittle" and snap your fingers at Henry Higgins! It is time to proclaim your independence and show him how much you love yourself! Good girl.<P>BS

<BR>Hi Lora:<P>You know he's probably just thinking "She doesn't mean it. I'll stall some more and she'll get over it." I'm not kidding. This is the way some H's think in this situation. Mine did. Because he knew how I felt, knew my loyalty and my tolerance.<BR>So he got flat tires, stuck in pastures and had too much to drink to drive home safely.<BR>All because he wanted both of us.<P>The time came of course when I reached my limit and told him I was though with being his doormat...that he wasn't welcome home until he could come back free and clear of thoughts of OW. That's where we are now.<P>But it's OK, I'm free of all the stress of living in the middle of the affair. I can still Plan A (and much better then I did while we were living together) because I still love him, but now he needs some time to discover what he really wants. Away from me...where he cannot subject me to further disrespect or disappointment in the process.<P>Ideally I wish he could have stayed at home with me, but I don't think anything I could have done or said would have made any difference as long as the affair is ongoing. So this is for the best...just like it is for the best for you and your H.<P>So don't beat yourself up about forcing the situation. It's just time. Without it he might have continued until OW got tired. That's not the resolution you want. You want him to decide that your marriage is the right place for him.<P>Living apart is hard...you miss your friend at the very least...but there really is truth in the old saying about setting the thing you love free..to come back to you if it's real. <P>In the end you may have to literally kick him out or change the locks. Chalk this up to the reality that he knows what he has in you and does not want to lose it...but he wants OW too. Make him go, to take the chance of losing you or give up the OW...it's his choice.<P>Buffy<P><BR> <BR>

Burned Spouse,<BR>I didn't say I had done a perfect plan a for a year did I? It was plenty flawed, but the best I could do, for as long as I could. I am ready to do something different.<P>Buffy,<BR>OMG!! Don't even tell me I might have to do more to get his butt out the door! I about had a stroke rehearsing for this talk.<BR>But as he has a serious selective memory ( didn't he say Sept 1?) I guess he could easily forget this conversation too.<P>I know he has to go and see if this affair can die. And its not like we have a marriage now anyhow. Just the security of having him here I guess. Really, a handyman could take over what he has been doing for the past 6 months. No nasty comments about the handyman. LOL<BR>Lora<BR>

You fail to understand. He wants to be at home....he really doesn't want to leave...and he can feel your hesitation at asking him to leave...like a child being told to go to bed...until he's convince that you mean it, he will try to stay...by some means. But you will have to make him leave or suffer with the consequences.<P>I think the only way I got my H to leave is by saying "don't come home..you're not welcome" and changing the locks (and he would still come home tomorrow if I would let him...and spend weekends with OW). Take yourself out of the picture and let the affair live or die on its own.<P>Buffy<BR>

Buffy,<BR> I am not sure if I will be strong enough to literally tell him to go now. I think I will need lots of help from here to do that. I pray he willl just go now.<BR>Remind me of how long your H has been gone this time. I read your post on the other thread about long term affairs and I think I am getting to that same place that I will move on with my life and wonder if he should come back at all, especially without serious commitment and changes. But alot of times it seems like they are really unsure at first.How do you think we will know if it is time to give them a chance to come back?<BR>Lora

Lora, I know your question about when you know it is time to let them come back was directed at Buffy...but I'll take a shot at it.<P>My H left the last time of his own accord...what he did not realize was that I was seeing no value in his being home--a warm back in bed, this being the cold, north, winter country warmth of any kind is nothing to dismiss .<P>But when he left. That was it. The last chance was done. At least, that's what I thought. Every other time he had come home, I had talked him into it, or ultimatumed or he just started staying the nights and stopped going to the other place.<P>The last sep, he wanted to come home with 2 weeks. I said no. Of course, there were other extenuating circumstances--I served D papers, the other guy, too sick of working on my marriage and feeling bad.<P>This was the point my H picked up the ball, but I still didn't want to play. I didn't Plan B & we saw each other, he spent a lot of time with the kids in our house. Sometimes I'd stay, other times I'd leave. <P>He turned his life around...began taking anti-deps, went to the counselor alone, attended a men's Bible study, read relationship/affair/recovery books, and showed his love for me with emails, phone calls, gifts. He stopped going to bars & hanging out with his single friends. No OW.<P>He did this from Feb to Apr. At which point, I thought that was enough evidence that he had changed & if there was a part of me that wanted the marriage...I had to make that decision. We didn't rush into ending the separation. By that time he had some issues with the way I had treated him. We both went to counseling, I made some changes.<P>We made the decision to do it again together. He isn't waffling. We both have moments where it seems like too much work, but we try to put some fun into our schedule or let there be an evening with some space between us.<P>What I'm trying to say is, if he changes, you will see signs of his lifestyle changing...and you can still wait. If his change is real, it will stay. If he puts in a couple days or a couple weeks & bags it again, it isn't your fault. Even though 6 reconciliations where he left again was hell, I think we learned something each time, each time something changed. It wasn't going to work while he was seeing the OW. The last 2 seps when he was no longer involved with her were more a result of his depression, guilt, & the realization of all the things he had done to me, and that the kids didn't buy that he "left me, not the kids". He finally got it.<P>Hope springs anew.<P>Anyway, Lora, by recommending Kat's story, I wasn't saying you hadn't done enough. She also "only" (I know, it's all relative) dealt with his infidelity about 6-8 months. And you've already got 3 months of "I'm leaving you" in. The uncertainty now, is probably worse than the reality of his leaving. I was always amazed at the decrease in tension. There were times right before he left that it felt like a blade-running chainsaw was swinging through our house.<P>It isn't here now. I never even hear the rip of the motor .<P>People in my real life do think I'm either nuts or a saint for trying so many times. I'm certain I'm no saint... . You'll find what you need inside you and with God's help.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).

Thanks LOr,<BR>Oh, now I know what that buzzing in my ears is, the chanisaw. I am starting to dread being home when he is here. I am going to leave ths house today so I won't see him. I really cannot understand why he is not in a hurry to get out and end the tension between us.<P>I guess I understand about seeing changes in him, to be ready to come back. I hope I will be able to resist the urge to hurry him home if he shows any signs of wanting it.<P>Lora

<BR>Lora, H has been gone since the end of May of this year and it's been a good miss. I love him but it was hard being caught in the middle. <P>You will have no question about whether he is going to leave when you've had enough and neither will he. Maybe you haven't reach your treshold yet.<P>I'm sure in H's mind, when OW freaks out again and takes off, he'll just make some token apology and come home. Wrong! How stupid can you get! Pretty stupid evidently.<P>As for knowing when it's time for him to be allowed to come home, if there ever is a time, I would expect to see evidence of a level of self-evaluation and introspection never seen in this man before and I don't really expect to see this time either. I don't know, I guess it will just be a leap of faith. I don't sound too hopeful do I?<BR>Guess I have more faith in him then I ought to, or maybe I just just have faith that everything will work out in the end. <P>Buffy<P> <P>