Hey all,<P>I am trying to advise friends of mine that are currently seperated because of affairs on both sides. *sigh* I have tried to advise each of them individually <P>This is the sorted story in a nut shell.<P>They have been married about 17 yrs and have two children (11 and 15) She decided to have an EA during a time when he was a bit depressed. But it didn't stop at one...she started many different A's. MANY!! He was depressed she was neglected...yadda yadda...<P>Well she finally confesses the EA's to him...AFTER she lead him into an EA with a mutual female friend. ( I know I know, this is strange)<P>Well he ends up falling in love with this Friend and his wife figures out that the peace and love she was looking for will not be found in ANY Man and is working very hard to turn her life around. The H on the other hand is wanting out because he doesn't trust her and thinks he is in love with OW. Now mind you OW has been Married twice already and had A's both times. So, Other than telling the Wife to clean her act up and live the way God wants her to live, How can I advise him?????? <BR>I know that the A between H and OW will not last. Even if they marry. She is just not going to stay in this relationship. How can he be convinced that he can forgive and start anew with W? <P>I hope someone will attempt to tackle this one. If not I truely understand. I just want this family back together. For them and the kids. <P>God Bless<BR>Tex<P>

Texasgal -<P>I don't know if I can help, but what the heck, I'll give you my thoughts at least. . .The Wife has had numerous EAs, right, that leads me to believe that maybe some of her emotional needs were not (still aren't) being met by her H. (Either that, or she is like me and has very low self-esteem, and likes the thrill of the chase - so to speak - which makes her feel attractive. Maybe she's the type of person who measures her self-worth by the level of other peoples' - particularly men - interest in her.) I think the W needs to do some soul-searching to see why these affairs occurred, what was she looking for, what did she expect would happen. I think she feels that no man can make her happy (1) because she is not happy with herself or (2) most people cannot met your emotional needs because they don't know what they are. She may have gone from affair to affair because of an addictive-type behavior OR she realizes that each man she runs into can't give her what she needs. I think a good book for her to read would be His Needs, Her Needs.<P>I think she really needs to try and figure out why she has had so many affairs, then determine why she married her H in the first place - she must have loved him at one point, getting your emotional needs met takes effort on both parties. Maybe she would be willing to give her H another chance, if she could figure out what those needs are.<P>Now, when she introduced her H to another F friend - that is kind of strange, but it may have been her way of easing her own conscience - she wanted her H to have someone to take care of him just in case she bolted and left him. She also may have introduced him to the friend - in a way - to make her feel like she was justified in haing her many EAs - now he's had one so he's just as bad as me type of thinking. I don't know about the reasons, and maybe their not important, but now the H is falling for the OW.<P>Well, I think that's only natural for him - someone is finally meeting HIS needs - whatever they are - sexual fulfillment, conversation, whatever. . .I don't know how you bring someone - like the H - out of the fog that they love the OP. I am a WS, but I had to come out of it on my own - no one really helped me - other than my H and Plan A. For the H, to come out of the fog, I think he needs to have something to come back, too. . .If his W doesn't love him, and doesn't think any man can fulfill her needs, he really doesn't have much reason to try and work things out.<P>From my perspective, I guess I think the W needs to decide what she wants. If she wants to try and work it out with her H - let her know that it can be possible for her to have a happy marriage - but it takes time, commitment, and patience. Normally, I would say it should be an equal thing - both should be willing to commit - but it sounds like the W is at a point where she is not involved with anyone at the moment and may be a little worried - now - that her H will leave her. She needs to get her act together first, I guess. I don't think anyone could really expect the H to want to end his EA - when he may not even have something to come back too.<P>Anyway, those are just my thoughts. If you are a good friend of the W, you may want to convince her to get some counseling - sounds like she may have some larger issues that need to be addressed. Anyway, I wish them luck (and you, too). You must be a good friend to want to help them out like this. For the H, tell him to take a good look at the OW - make a list of pros and cons - what he could stand to lose if he and his wife broke up - that really helped me to think at least a little more objectively about the OM. If I had left my H, I would have jumped right from the frying pan and into the fire.<P>

Texasgal,<P>First, let us get the important part of this discussion out of the way first. What part of Texas are you from? <P>I think SKM, nailed it pretty much. It seems to me your friends H is not going to come back to her unless some major changes are made on her part. A major one being that she understands why she has been having affair after affair. If she doesn't understand that and can explain it to H, then he would be nuts to come back, Right?<P>As for him, I would think that since you know this OW is very bad for him, I would recommend he stop this affair, not to work on marriage (Why?), but to get things in the proper order. Stop the affair, get divorced, and then seek a woman, that would make a good W for him.<P>Now if W is getting her act together, then perhaps during the period that H is leaving OW, she will have a chance to repair the marriage. If she is not, he is rid of a woman ,OW, that in your judgement is bad for him, he is rid of W, who isn't a W, and he and she can start their lives as single people.<P>Doesn't sound very romantic does it? But SKM made the excellent point. Why would he want to go back to his W? Obviously, she was not meeting his needs and from her behavior he would not or could not meet hers.<P>I saved my best advice for last. Have them both get into counseling, with someone that knows how to save marriages.<P>Good luck Texasgal, this is a tough one.<P>JL<P><p>[This message has been edited by Just Learning (edited September 01, 2000).]

SKM,<P>Thank you so much for your post. I have expressed all those things to these two. I am so glad someone else confermed my feelings. I am not a councelor but have been through a lot of these emotions, guilt, fear, loss, addiction,...<P>You bring up a very good point, Why would he want to be with her vs. the OW?? I have told her that and proved it to her when she comes out with her LB's. She is understanding this but it is starting to get to her that she is giving up all her EA's and he is not.<P>I wish she would get counceling. *sigh*<P>Just Learning,<P>Important matters first...I am from Central Texas..pretty close to Waco.<P>Thank you for your input as well. I Have not come out and told him to look at the OW's track record. I was saving that amunition for the perfect time. I do agree that he has nothing to come home to and that he needs to spend time alone to sort this out. But as you and I know, the fog gets real think.<P>I wish I could have faith in marriage councelers, but I don't. I believe he is in counceling for himself and I wish she would do the same but she is so ashamed. This would definately help her if she would. I will work on that!! because other than helping her with her addiction to these OMen (which she is having a very hard time with) I don't know what else to do for her. Thanks again.<P>Tex<BR>

Texasgal,<P>If you can help your friend with her addictions to these other men, you will have done her a hugh favor even if the marriage is lost. You mentioned that she is bothered by these affairs, is she really, or just that she got caught and other people know about them.<P>Why don't you ask her the question. Why would your H come home? I have a feeling it would be a real eye opener for her to list the reasons she feels her H should return to her. <P>If they are individual counseling I am sure that would help. Especially the W, but probably also the H, as he probably has issues now even if he didn't. But you do probably need to explain to him about OW.<P>Tough situation, you could direct them to the Harley's they seem to have a very good track record and many here who have used them are very impressed. It is phone counseling so it doesn't make any difference where they live.<P>Finally, the important stuff. Went to school in Austin and have family in San Antonio. I really do enjoy it down there. <P>You have quite a task in front of you with this situation.<P>Take care and good luck. <P>JL

Texasgal and Just Learning -<P>With football season starting, I really hope you all aren't Cowboys' fans . . .Looks like it could be a long season for you. . .<P>Anyway, Texas, for the wife, I read this book "Infidelity: Your Complete Survivor's Guide" by E. Gough. That was the first book I read about infidelity (and was before I found this site). Anyway, the book was a really easy read, and the author experienced infidelity from all three sides - BS, WS, OP. It was really "unique." Anyway, this was the first book I read that really looked at why affairs occur, etc. . .Also, it made me realize that there is hope - that maybe my H and I could get through this.<P>Then, thank God, I found this site. . .While my H and I haven't done the counseling thing (yet), I think that is a good idea. Some of the literature on this site and in the book I mentioned gave a list of things to look for when choosing a counselor. Maybe that would help. But you can't force someone to go to counseling if they don't feel like they have a problem. I think the W in the situation you described needs to give her H a little slack right now. . .After all, the problems they are in took two to create.<P>As a WS, I know what it is like to feel ashamed of the EAs. But the thing is, she should feel good about herself that she wants it to stop. I agree with JL - if she is truly sorry and is truly remorseful for her actions, I think there is hope. If she is only sorry that she got caugth, that's another thing.<P>I agree that you are doing a good thing, and I wish you all the luck in the world. Even if the marriage doesn't survive (and never say never is my motto) I think the W needs to get at the heart of why the WAs occurred, and how it has affected her as a person. She really needs to confront these issues, or I think she's bound to (1) repeat them or (2) have regrets the rest of her life.<P>I'm glad the H is in counseling. . .I think any light you could shed on the OP would be helpful - just know that he either may not believe you or won't care about her past. If he's in the fog, he really needs to come out of it himself. You may ask him to list the reasons he is with the OW and what he likes about her (maybe it's just that she likes being with him, talking with him, seems interested in him). Once he tells you this, maybe that could give the W some insight on what needs the OW is fulfilling and what she needs to focus on in the immediate. But, I really don't know how much progress can be made until the W resolves the things on her own conscience.<P>If you don't mind, let me know how things are going . . .Maybe she should come to this site. . .Even though my H and I haven't gone to formal counseling, we have gotten a lot of good advice and ideas from the posts here. And reading books on the subject, to me, is a way of self-counseling. If she is not ready to go to formal counseling, maybe she could do some solitary reading, get used to the idea. . .I hope it workds out.