Count me in. <P>Many of you know my long long story. H has been in apt one year now claiming the whole time that long term relationship with ow was over. He claimed that he couldn't move home because while he loved me he just couldn't get the affection back.<P>Monday night I asked him again if he was ever moving home. After another one sided discussion (me doing all the talking, he left)He called about a half hour later and told me that he just didn't think it was going to work. He just couldn't get the affection back, that he has been trying. I asked him if he wanted a divorce and he said yes. He said that I deserved better than this and he couldn't keep doing this to me. During a couple brief phone conversations that same night I think I actually got some truth out of him which is like pulling teeth. I don't know if the affair has been continuous or on and off this last 19 months since discovery but it appears that he just ended it with her a couple months ago. I am guessing that the timeline coincides with his new job. It wasn't really a shock to me that she was still a part of his life all this time. There were too many unbelievable situations and I actually felt some relief that I wasn't crazy . I felt justified in not trusting him this whole time. He spends so much time with us I just can't understand how she can be satisfied with the crumbs of time she gets with him. I would imagine that he is/was still making promises to her that our marriage was over. I was awake most of Monday night crying on and off just thinking about a divorce, unraveling 21 years, dividing assets and child custody and visitation. It just broke my heart thinking of how much my children were going to be hurt. <P>I had a really hard time Tuesday morning the first day of school. As I watched my fifth grader go into his room I just burst into tears as I thought about what a difficult year he was going to have dealing with this.<BR>When I got home, I started gathering up some of h belongings; some clean clothes, medication, odds and ends, his car keys from my key ring, my wedding ring and piled them up on the kitchen table. He called and I lost it again. He asked if I was ok. Of course I wasn't. I explained how hard it was at school, that I wanted the keys to my car, the house key and that I had gathered up some stuff for him to pick up after work. He sounded very sad and said we would talk after work. <P>Well we had another short one sided conversation in which I calmly explained to him that he really hadn't been trying all this time. That since she had still been in the picture there wasn't any way he would find those feelings for me again. That unless she was out of his life totally and completely it wasn't trying. If it had only ended a couple months ago then he really had only been trying a couple months. Was he really ready to throw away a twenty year relationship after that short a time. He seemed contrite, didnt say much but seemed to agree.<P>The stuff I gathered together is still on the kitchen table. Last night we went school supply shopping together. When he left I gave him a letter that reiterated what I said about her being out of his life completely. I told him I would support him and understood how hard it would be to not call or see her if he should decide to do that. I also pointed out some of the major things he would be losing should he choose to stay with her; being a full time father,his family, our family, holidays, birthdays etc. I tried to do it in a non lb way.<P>I am trying to stay calm as I think he is waffling on the divorce. I don't think that is what he really wants but is having such a hard time severing contact. I am hoping that what I have said in the past couple days will sink in this time and he will truly try. <P>Chris<BR>

Oh crud Hoping...<P>But at least you know now. I am so sorry for all the hurt you must be feeling. <P>I really hope that your words will somehow make a real impression on him this time. But I am just not hopeful. His timeframe may just not be the same as yours. And he has to come back to the marriage on his timeframe. By pushing (which you have every right to do after all this time!) you are pushing the only outcome he can commit to right now - divorce. He is already saying that he cannot keep you in limbo forever and that it is not fair to you. He may even believe that this is doing you a favor. He is not ready to return - and yet you do not yet seem ready to end the marriage. So what to do?<P>I don't think he really wants the divorce either. He did not initiate it, he did not even initiate the discussion. You did. At this point - for you - you are so legitimately tired and frustrated that continuing "status quo" in plan A will push you even further along the path to divorce. I know Hoping because I am there too. I feel so hurt, so legitimately needy of some emotional care and so sick of the whole thing! Divorce starts to look like the only way to relieve the pain.<P>But we know it isn't. I don't think I ever realized before now what the Harley's meant when they say "go to plan B when you are in danger of losing all love for your spouse". Now that I am asking the question: "Do I plan B or divorce?", I understand completely. Unless I choose to initiate divorce, plan b is my only real option right now. <P>And still I don't know if I can do it. I have failed at it before. But I know that otherwise, I will be divorced in a matter of months, that I will initiate it. I am just at the end of my rope emotionally with this mess.<P>Hoping now is the time to look honestly at what you want. If you really do want the marriage still, you may have to give it more time. How can you do this and survive? If your choice is really plan b or divorce, plan b as tough as it is might still be a better option. You can do this. Set up a schedule for him to take the kids, agree on finances, find out everything you need to about divorce - be prepared, but do not initiate unless you absolutely must to protect yourself. Give yourself a timeframe to reevaluate and then get all your support lined up and buckle in for a really hard ride. I found plan b to be excruciating, but I still see it as less excruciating than divorce if you still hold out hope for your marriage.<P>However, if you really feel you have given all you have and you no longer want the marriage then divorce makes sense. But don't react only to his inability to decide. What do you want Hoping? Answer this honestly and the rest will follow.<P>My thoughts and prayers are with you<BR>Starpony

Starpony,<P>I wanted to point out something important that you said (not to pick on you, but to illustrate this point):<P>[quote]I don't think I ever realized before now what the Harley's meant when they say "go to plan B when you are in danger of losing all love for your spouse". Now that I am asking the question: "Do I plan B or divorce?", I understand completely.[/quote<P>When you're asking yourself "Plan B or divorce", you've gone TOO LONG in plan A. It's very important not to stay in Plan A too long---most people don't have the staying power to deal with an affair in this fashion for more than six months.<P>The move to Plan B was the hardest thing I ever did. And I'm very fortunate that I had Steve Harley coaching me through this---he helped me realize that it was time. I thought that I might of Plan B'ed too early---but that's EXACTLY the point. It's better a bit early than too late.<P>{{{{{{{Hoping}}}}}}}. Not much advice---you seem to be doing OK.

Starpony and K,<P>I know that I really don't want a divorce. I want to make this work.<P>I think what is holding me in plan a right now is the fact that he changed jobs two months ago and is no longer in daily contact with her. I am hoping that he really did end it with her to work on our marriage at that time but that he is not able to as he is going through withdrawal.<P>As for plan b, is it appropriate to initiate plan b when they are not seeing ow?<BR>Plan b is so scarey. I've tried before and only lasted a week. I'm petrified that it will just push him back to her if in fact he is not seeing her now. Perhaps plan b is not a good idea when they are in withdrawal if he is.<P>I just don't know anymore. I want to let go and not care but I look at my boys faces when they are sleeping and just burst into tears when I think of the pain a divorce would cause.<P>Chris

{{{{{{{{Hoping}}}}}}}}}<BR>You know I think of you and pray for you always.<BR>You are such a patient lady.<BR>I am so sorry that your H is having such a hard time coming out of this fog.<BR>Although it has supposedly been a year since my H has had contact with the bimbo...I still have doubts in my mind. He spent so many years being her "friend".<BR>When I read your post my heart bled for you. Why is it so hard for them to make real decisions?<P>No advice my friend. Just know that I am here and thinking of you.

Hoping,<BR>I don't have any better advice to give you than Starpony & K.<P>Your H has never been without your nearly daily love & support. Now he's using the word divorce. My counselor gave me the advice over and over when we were separated & Guard was talking divorce. Let him see what he is asking for. I know it is scary. But although I should have gone to Plan B, I did go to the see-divorce plan. Visitation--me not there.<P>You've done a great Plan A. Longer than humanly possible probably. You aren't seeing changes in him...he continues much as he has, whether he's seeing her or not, he's not in the marriage, but he isn't missing his family because it is there for him every day. I truly believe he sees you as family, but not as "wife" in the full sense of the word--lover, friend, companion, helpmate and even (gack) soulmate.<P>I think it is time that if you are to have a marriage, some effort, other than showing up, must come from him. Whether he's seeing the OW or not, shoot, the way he is, you haven't known for sure and aren't likely to. That's a truth for my life as well. Other than in my gut & his eyes, it is not likely Guard would tell me if he began seeing someone again. But what he tells me is that it would kill him to go back to living in that way & breaking his honor again. I believe that. Some things you know are true when you hear them.<P>It comes down to Plan B is scary, divorce is scary and you may not get a choice on divorce.<P>And, the way he phrased it, he can't keep doing this to you...he's thinking this is for your benefit. I heard that as well. It isn't a true statement. None of this is for your benefit.<P>As for the kids. You know, they've had their parents separated for over a year, bad times before that. They've been through the worst. He'll still see them. No, divorce isn't the best for the kids, but you aren't making the choice for the divorce. You are the parent they count on. You are the one who is always there for them. You still will be.<P>I'm so sorry, Hoping, that you have a hard couple of months ahead. Isn't there a part of you that would like a Plan B break from all the turmoil of wondering & watching him walk out nearly every evening? <P>You've got the strength inside you for whatever comes.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).