Hi everyone,<P>I haven't posted my own topic for so long. Once in a while I pop in where I feel I can be useful but mostly I lurk. I am sorry the profiles don't seem to work too well anymore but as an introdution to those of you who don't know me, I discovered my H's six month affair with a co-worker in Jan 1999. I mostly plan A'd since then. He moved in and out several times, I threw him out once (OK - one major LB there ), he lost his job, OW was suicidal, he got a new job, asked to come back - lasted 2 months before leaving again, has been treated for depression and quit, moved to another state all the while staying in some contact with OW. Finally I reached the plan B point 17 months after discovery - but I didn't keep it up. <P>K pointed the following out to me in Hoping's thread and I think it bears attention (no K I don't feel picked on ):<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Starpony,<P>I wanted to point out something important that you said (not to pick on you, but to illustrate this point):<P>"I don't think I ever realized before now what the Harley's meant when they say "go to plan B when you are in danger of losing all love for your spouse". Now that I am asking the question: "Do I plan B or divorce?", I understand completely."<P>When you're asking yourself "Plan B or divorce", you've gone TOO LONG in plan A. It's very important not to stay in Plan A too long---most people don't have the staying power to deal with an affair in this fashion for more than six months.<P>The move to Plan B was the hardest thing I ever did. And I'm very fortunate that I had Steve Harley coaching me through this---he helped me realize that it was time. I thought that I might of Plan B'ed too early---but that's EXACTLY the point. It's better a bit early than too late.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>K is right. I hope some others who feel "plan A is the only way" will learn from this. It does damage to betrayed when carried on for too long - especially if you are still in regular contact and emotionally connected with the WS and so much of the relationship seems "good". You just give and give and give and at some point you break.<P>So where am I now? I had Steve coaching me when I launched plan B, but I resisted - at first because it felt so awful and the fact that H only saw the kids once in over 2 months. I felt so responsible even though I made every effort to be totally flexible about his seeing them - he just never did his part by making any time for them. Finally, H's depression intensified during this time and he had stopped seeing his shrink. He began to talk about suicide and I just couldn't keep up the no contact. <P>But now things are really no different. Still no commitment though H knows he needs what I give him. Still the OW in the picture - though H seems less blind to her many faults. Still a horribly confused and depressed H. The only thing that is different is me and my feelings. I've given just about everything I have. <P>The only bright spot is H is starting back in counseling. This one change is giving me enough strength to back off and let go. He may still need me, but I no longer feel like I am the only safety net. And for those of you who say, well let OW be his safety net - I just didn't trust her ability to do this, and the horrible consequences for my children if H were to hurt himself seemed more risk than I could take. Guess in the end I may have risked the marriage on this, but I would still make the same decision again if I were facing the same situation.<P>I do think you reach a point of no return in plan A. I hope I am not there yet. I plan to back off now and hope to be able to give H enough time to heal himself - while protecting me in the process.<P>Hi to all my old friends (and new ones) who see this. I really am doing OK. Just wish this whole thing were not so complicated and sad.<P>Starpony<P>

Starpony, <P>There are a few of us old timers left. My story isn't exactly great right now either. <P>I do sense you have gained self assurance and inner strength from your post. While your marriage is still having trouble, you sound like you are doing pretty well. That's a good thing. <P>SHA

Hi Starpony: <P>It's so good to hear from you. I've often wondered how things turned out for you. <P>This is the saddest thing thing I've heard all week. I am so sorry your husband hasn't come out of the fog, but it is not for lack of your efforts to bring him back.<P>What can we do to help? What's your next step?<P>Catnip =^^= <P>

SHA - Thanks for responding to me. I have read your sad post and just didn't know what to say. This will sound strange but in some ways I am grateful I always knew - throughout the last 20 months - that OW was still around. To feel you are "recovering" and then discover this must be one of nature's cruelest jokes. I am so sorry. For both of you. But you too sound stronger and have grown so much - and as you say this is a good thing.<P>Catnip - I just haven't had much good news so haven't posted. I am thrilled though that you still lurk and found me here. You are so sweet to ask how to help. I guess my next steps will be a "real" plan B, but first I plan to go back - tail between legs - to Steve H and get his input too. Sometimes I feel like such a failure for not keeping up my plan B better, although somedays I can feel like a failure for just about anything - I still have a ways to go in the self-forgiveness area. Thanks for caring.<P>Starpony

Starpony,<P>Thanks for always being there when I post. <P>I know how you feel when you say you are the only one capable of being his safety net. I feel that way too. It is hard to imagine abandoning that responsibility especially when you think of how the consequences would affect your children.<P>My h is very very involved with my children unlike yours because he is so far away. Plan b is such a tough choice when children are part of the decision. <P>When you say that you are going to back off now, what does that mean? <P>Have you called the Harley's yet? What is their advice? I've never counseled with them but feel so confused at this point I don't know which way to go. <P>Keep in touch.<P>Chris<BR>cwalker842@aol.com

Hello Starpony! Never ever feel like a failure. You are doing the best that you know how to in a hard situation and you are strong and good and never forget it.<P>Thing sound like they have been tough for you. I think as long as he is still seeing OW and in the fantasy they see no faults.<P>Being far away does not help either does it? I'm just going to send lots of hope your way. I think sometimes things have to get the very end, where you are ready and able to move on completley and they know it and things can do turn around. I hope his counceling helps him!<P>I know about being fooled. Of course being the queen of denial helps being fooled too. He came home last Thanksgiving and the freindship with his OW continued and then progressed of course!<P>Remember our big vacation. Stuff hit the fan right after and I found out. I made a plan for myself, that I was determned to stick to.<P>I just shut up about everything and continued to work on myself and found some true inner peace. I also knew it would have to be me of her to end this, he doesn't have it in him.<P>I knew I was ready a couple of months ago and began gently letting him know I was done and he did everything in his power to dissuade me, but I knew I was ready and so did he. Then OW did the same he did not dissuade her and it ended.<P>So here we are 2 1/2 years later and I am not in denial. He is totally different. Every single day. He's bending over backworks to make this work and me comfortable with everything. We don't avoid any issues and talk about everything.<P>I'm happy and still at peace. I don't even get that sinking feeling thinking about what might happen, because I now know, no matter, I will be okay.<P>He tells me I am different. But I'm really not. The fog is gone and he just sees me more clearly.<P>Sorry this is so long on your thread. I have not talked about this with anyone except him in so long.<P>I can tell that you will be okay too! Of course I am hoping and really do think that things will go your way!<P>Love Lilly!

Hoping-<P>Nice to see you here. I will talk to Steve on Monday. I think backing off means trying to do a "real" plan B - probably with a legal separation. I do still love my H but I know his timeline and mine do not mesh at all right now. I can't stay on his timeline and stay involved with him. For me this is the only way to "wait" a bit longer while also starting to heal myself.<P>Lilly!<BR>Great to hear from you. Sounds like you have really been through a lot too. I feel the same - it will have to be me or OW to end it and because H live so far away (from both of us actually) it is just dragging on so long. My stamina is flagging.<P>I hope your H is finally on the real road to recovery, and I am especially glad to hear you sounding so well and peaceful. On good days I have the same feeling of peace - I know I can go on without H and be fine - just don't want to...<P>starpony

Starpony,<BR>My H suffered from depression as well. And once he realized he was losing me and had a very dark night of the soul, he took control of his depression, his thoughts, his life.<P>He still thought a continued separation was the answer & I did set boundaries. I felt that whatever he did to himself, was nothing I could prevent, nor would I be to blame. I didn't want visits in the wee hours of the morning--he had chosen to walk out on me, & had finally lost that priviledge. Our counselor, pastor & H's new prayer partner said they would take his calls in the middle of the night, so he was not without resources.<P>I still feel that was harsh of me. But there had been many nights I had tried to reach him...and he wasn't there, he was with the OW. When I decided upon this course, I wasn't with anyone, I was at home with the kids. I think he only had them on his own overnight 3-4 times in the 2 years he moved in & out. However, that wasn't his fault, our oldest refused to spend the night with him (angry girl). <P>There isn't a lot we can do to push our spouse out of limbo. We can Plan A. We can Plan B. We can simply exist with them in the limbo they have created. We can divorce.<P>We turn to our own kind of inertia, while we wait. And that behavior isn't easy to break either.<P>Lilly, glad to see you post that things are going better. We, along with everyone so far on this thread had some tough nights/weeks/months last year.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).

Hi *Pony!<P>Glad to see you back, but very sorry to hear that things aren't better for you.<P>Things aren't so good for me, either. H has been back home for three months now, but still carrying on an EA. Even after telling me that "I had him back", and he wanted to reconcile with me, "and just me". I have been trying hard to Plan A which is difficult when your hopes are dashed. I know the next step is to do the Plan B thing but H now refuses to leave. So, it will be up to me to move out this time. My PCP told me to "throw him out", then get a restraining order. I don't think I can do that.<P>I can relate to you about wanting to be their safety net. One of the reasons I let H move back so quickly is that while separated from me he began to have what appeared to be serious neurological problems-- stumbling, dizziness, memory loss. After a zillion tests, the doctors have concluded it's due to stress. My H, too is seeing a psychiatrist and is being treated for major depression.<P>In my heart, I know that I will be forced into Plan B. H has admitted that he doesn't have the strength to end it with OW, or with me, for that matter. So, it will be up to me to take the next step. <P>Sadly, I really don't think that H will make it without me. He needs me, he knows he needs me, & he is terrified of losing me. He's told me that he thinks of me as "his tether to reality". Yet, he can't seem to stop himself from hurting me.<P>I wouldn't wish this experience on anyone, but I feel like I have grown an incredible amount over these last fourteen months. I have had to reach within my soul and draw upon strength that I never knew I had. Having experienced excrutiating pain, I have become much more empathetic to suffering and misery. I think I am a stronger, better person.

Hi Lor,<P>You should know that your story keeps me going on some really rough days. I am so heartened to keep seeing progress for you and Guard.<P>The depression piece is a blessing and a curse. It gives me something to point a finger at, a solid reason I can use when I try to understand this whole mess, but it also makes me prone to feeling I should excuse his behavior, keep swallowing my hurts and stay in plan A. Sounds like you set enough boundaries to protect yourself.<P>Sidney - Hi friend. So sorry to hear things are not as you had hoped they would be at this point. It is so hard to "abandon" someone you love when they are in crisis. And if you have a "reason" that helps you to believe all the pain that is being heaped on you is not because the WS is "bad", just "sick" it is that much harder.<P>Still, I won't be here (in the marriage) much longer if I don't protect myself from the pain. As some point it is about taking enough care of yourself to be there for the other person when they are actually capable of rebuilding the relationship with you. Your H has a psychiatrist - that needs to be his safety net now - not you. Yes easier said than done... Take care of yourself.<P>Update:<BR>The latest twist is that H talked to me this weekend and wants to see me. He (again) said how the OW relationship is not what he wants long term. He expressed a desire to rebuild us, knows he cannot keep living this double life and it is killing him - but also knows that I can't stand another "pseudo" reconciliation. Said he misses me and the kids immensely. But that he doesn't know how to fight his feelings for OW - and not slide back to her as he has too many times to count - he even said he wants to learn the skills to do this. But he never said he has ended it with OW.<P>I talked to Steve this a.m. and decided what to do at this point. I will ask what H's plan with OW is. If he has ended it, great and we can start to talk about a plan for recovery and extraordinary precautions to eliminate contact with OW. If not,or if he expresses continued wavering about what he wants- I go to plan B. With legal separation. This will take some time to get in place, but I do know I am at a critical juncture. I cannot stay through another failed reconciliation. My giver is on permanent life support right now and my taker is hovering at the bedside trying to pull the plug. My healing needs to begin - with or without the marriage. I still hope it will be with H.<P>Starpony

Hi Starpony,<P> Good for you and stay strong.....I really think you have a very good chance at this. Keep talking to Steve , he guided me in Plan B .....you're H is definitely "wanting" the family but can't seem to muster up the strength....the only thing that worked for me was Plan B.....<BR> I also had a separation agreement drawn up and that was a dose of reality for my H....I'll be praying for you.....LU

Starpony, I am doing good! I do know it real. Right now. He tells me he is sorry all the time for the pain and hurt he caused me. Tells me he was selfish. I never used to hear things beyond the first day reconcillation and even that would be minimal.<P>I beleive you are having a turning point. That this will get him to see he can really lose you. I know in some cases, at least mine, that this would have contiued as long as allowed. Plan b will be hard for you, but I don't see what choice you have with him not being there. It will give him a reality check. <P>I heard the I know I don't want to spend the rest of my life with her, I want to be with you forever and began to recogise it for what it was and that was a little string to keep me hanging on.<P>So stay strong and keep us posted!<P>Hi Lori!<BR>We all have had some tough times. I am very happy for you and guard. Your Mexico story brought tears to my eyes and made me dream. I was thinking about what you posted earlier, how her breaking up with him bothered you a bit and I was feeling a bit like that too.<P>But he had done all the other break ups and she ended it with him because she asked if he would ever leave me and he said no and this is what I wanted right? An end. But you made me really think about it and come to terms with it so thanks for some help you did not know you provided. <P>------------------<BR>Lilly