<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

Any advice? Anybody? Please!!!

OffOnOnOff, <P>Sorry that I can not offer too much here but this sounds very close to what I have just started to go through the last 2 weeks. I do everything around the house and all the shopping etc... I completely spoil her. <BR>Just 2 weeks ago she told me that she was having troubled feelings about something that I did prior to us even meeting...<BR>Now she is, or so it seems, to be on both sides of the fence. Not really wanting to leave but not necessarily wanting to stay in the marriage.<BR>Even though my mess is not due to another relationship she has started, I wonder about that too. I too wonder why I should stay, but for me it is way too early just to call it quits (after 2 weeks).<BR>For you I would wonder also. If your W doesn't want to work on the marriage, then why go on trying after all this time. Yes it does take 2, and if 1 doesn't want to try, then why? And this is exactly what I've asked myself the last few days..... Like I stated I do not know if this will be much help, but I hope there was a little something here (I'm still too novice on these issues)....<P>Good Luck!!

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

Respect comes from not allowing yourself to be treated like a doormat. Your wife is using your fear of divorce as a means to control you and allow her to do whatever she wants. The only way this is going to stop is if you take a stand. Nobody respects weakness.

Maybe it is time to think about going to Plan B...If you haven't already, read up on it and consider.<P>I'm sorry you are in such a bad situation right now...<P>Kathi

Here is a woman's point of view. You say there is no PA anymore but there is an EA. For a woman, an EA is a strong bond. We're wired for emotional relationships as you know. Let her know in no uncertain terms that it is still an affair and you will not accept any form of contact with this man. Are you doing plan A? If your are, it is not about being a doormat and nobody can respect a doormat. Have you considered Plan B? If you haven't maybe you should. Yes, it is possible that she will leave but it is also possible that she will realize how cruel and unfair she has been. If you haven't read the Harley books, I strongly suggest that you do. Espeically "Surviving an Affair" and "His Needs/Her needs". SAA covers Plan A and Plan B very clearly. I know you are afraid to lose your spouse. I have felt that desperate also. I refused to live with lies and deciet no matter what the consequence was. I was afraid but willing to take the chance for my marriage. Don't be walked all over like that. You don't deserve it and it's not good for your psychological well being either. <BR>Be storng and do what you knwo is right even if it is painful. In the end YOU will respect yourself for it.

OffOnOnOff,<P>From reading your posts your fears of losing your W are unfounded. Why? Because you have already lost her. That is why you went to Plan A and have been busting you b--t. If you read the Harley material, it states that Plan B is the next thing to do if your spouse will not give up the affair.<P>She is using you and abusing your good will, it is time to look into Plan B. It is tough to do because it calls for no contact. I don't recall if you have children if you don't then you don't warn her. You make up a good Plan B letter: there are examples on this site and in the book you have been recommended, you simply give it to her and leave.<P>There is to be no contact until the affair is over, financial support should be minimal and only what legally required. Please read the description carefully and the ask NSR for more details. This approach is to preserve your love for your W, from the tone of your posting, you are losing it fast with her LB's and attitude. <P>Time for a change of a game plan OffOnOnOff. You really haven't anything to lose. Your W is gone now, the only question is she coming back.<P>Hope this helps.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

OffOnOnOff,<P>If you've continued with a good Plan A...<BR>...it may just be the time for Plan B...<P>Even if it isn't... draft up that Plan B letter...<BR>We'll help... <P>Check out my post <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000177.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B - 101 (2nd ed.)</A> for good sample letters.<P>It's always a good idea to seek out MB counseling too...<BR>...I beat <B>K</B> to it this time... <P> <P>Jim

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

It is definitely time to have a couple of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7200_phone.html" TARGET=_blank>telephone counseling sessions</A> (~$95US a pop... but well worth it) with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7010_about.html" TARGET=_blank>Steven W. Harley</A> or Jennifer Harley. Check out the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counseling Center</A>... and for some specifics... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7015_fee.html" TARGET=_blank>Fees for Counseling Services</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html" TARGET=_blank>Scheduling an Appointment</A> (888-639-1639)!<P><B>No doubt about it</B>!!!<P>As far as my own personal opinion...<BR>...you could do the best Plan B...<BR>...by first preparing your children for it!<P>I don't know your relationship with your kids...<BR>...but you've got to bring them into this...<BR>...many have flamed me on this and will again.<P>If your marriage has children in it...<BR>...you can't avoid building "honesty" into your relationship with them too!<P>...I would slowly prepare them for a "new" relationship between me and my W....<BR>...and how it is to save the love I have for their mom.<P>Not an easy task...<BR>...but one that is important in the children's understanding of love/committment and marriage.<P>The alternative is to expose your children to an immediate divorce...<P>Then... if she doesn't break off the relationship with the OM...<BR>...plan out a "limited contact" Plan B...<BR>...and meet as few <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A> as possible... on your terms...<P>Yes... this could push her out the house...<BR>(and mommy can leave if she doesn't want to work on the marriage... she is allowed to... and this is what you need to prepare the children with...)<BR>Does this make mommy the "bad guy"?... yep...<BR>...but for how long can she present to the children... that what she is doing (to you and the marriage) is OK?<P>Yes...it could have the desirable effect to bring reality into her world.<P>When to start this is only after you and the kids are prepared.<P>Is this "tough love"... yep...<BR>...but it is required at times.<P> <P>Jim

offon-<P>I understand your point about the children. I have three (10,6,4). My ten year old new something was wrong between my H and I. Kids that age are smart and pick up on things between parents whether they hear you talking or not. Once we started recovery, my 10 year old made comments about us being a "happy family" or me and his dad being affectionate(something he rarely ever saw). They do notice more than you think. If she won't leave maybe you and the children could go someplace. I am very sorry that you even have to consider things like this. Maybe you should talk to a lawyer about your options as far as a seperation is concerned. He may be able to help you with that "abandonment" issue.

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Therefore, plan B is “divorce” to me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...<P>...is it better on her terms... ...the civil divorce?<P>...or your terms... Plan B... well planned out... with your kids in mind!<P>Another quote to think about...<P>"The truth will set you free"...<P>...draft that Plan B letter...<BR>...plan out the details...<P>...<B>always</B> be truthful to the kids...<P>...<B>always</B> look for the age appropriate way to be honest to the kids...<P>...Your kids <B>are</B> old enough to handle facts...<BR>...you have to get them emotionally prepared for understanding their own emotions!<P>...I've said it before...<BR>......and others question me on it but....<BR>......teach the kids to separate the sin from the sinner.<BR>......maybe you'll have to teach yourself first.<P>First rule...<BR><B>Don't leave the home/kids</B>...<BR><B>Don't leave the home/kids</B>...<BR><B>Don't leave the home/kids</B>...<BR><B>Don't leave the home/kids</B>...<BR><B>Don't leave the home/kids</B>...<BR><B>Don't leave the home/kids</B>...<BR>...<BR>and if you missed it...<BR><B>Don't leave the home/kids</B>...<BR><B>Don't leave the home/kids</B>...<BR><B>Don't leave the home/kids</B>...<BR><B>Don't leave the home/kids</B>...<BR><B>Don't leave the home/kids</B>...<BR>...<P>If your W wants to leave...<BR>...(and you see this as inevitable...)<BR>Get your children ready for it now!!!<P>My kids weren't ready for it...<BR>...and still don't like that my W has gone...<BR>...and that was over a year ago.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>That will make it very hard for us to get back with each other, especially in our culture<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...what about a full blown divorce?... How hard will that make it?...<P>Praying for you...<P> <P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited September 09, 2000).]

Yes, seems like if you could get her out of the house, your set up is perfect for plan B. She will miss the financial and child raiseing and household support you give her and may realize that OM can not give her the same. What is her reasoning for not moving out? Could you help her get set up in an apartment? Sounds crazy, I know, but you can't go on like this either.<BR>Lora

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

offon,<P>I never wanted tmy chikldren to know what was truly going on. I just told him that sometimes grownups have a hard time but that they try to work things out. That could be wrong but I felt my ten year old is not old enough to handle grown up garbage that even I had a hard time handling. He is supposed to feel safe and I would do my best to protect that. If it had come to a seperation then the father and I would have had to discuss that with him ahead of time. <BR>I too come from a culture where divorce is not very common. I was really afraid of all the surrounding issues that would ocme with it. Lets face it though, she did it and not you. Don't worry at this point about what people are going to think of her. She should have thought of that way before she ever had the A. Seems like she has a warped set of values. NSR alwyas has good advice. Tell her no contact or else she moves out. That you won't have your children raised in that kind of environment. It sounds like you are going to have to be really firm with her to get anywhere.

I believe that your wife needs to understand that unless she stops all contact with the OM and works on the marriage divorce will be initiated. The only way she is going to believe you is if she sees that you have indeed filed. The other thing I would do is contact this OM and tell him in no uncertain terms that you will inform not only his wife but his employer about his affair with your wife. Will this make her angry. Probably. Will this action on your part make her angry enough to go through with a divorce. It might but the chances are that it will shake her up and make her realize that the price of a divorce may be too high. The OM will probably back off and this will show her that he values his skin more than her. Remember she has as much to loose as you do from a divorce. As for trying Plan B. In my opinion, the only way it can work is if your wife moves out of the house and has to take care of her finsncial needs without your help. Plan B is suppose to make her miss you and realize that her marriage is more important than the affair. The problem I see with this approach is that your spouse will probably use this opportunity to focus her attention more on her affair partner especially if she does not have to worry about interference from you resulting in a stronger emotional bond with the OM. I have followed the use of this plan by spouses on this website and have not seen much success with it. In my experience people change when there is a crisis (such as divorce or ill health). Again I would recommend that you read "Love Must Be Tough" by Dr.James Dobson. Best wishes...max