Res<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited November 26, 2000).]

No, you are NOT bad for feeling this way. It is how you react to feeling this way which can be "bad."<P>You know it is wrong. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I told my counselor I didn't like that she advised this and that I would continue to act married until I'm not longer married <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So now what has changed to make you want/feel to act like your not married?<P>Most likely you are getting some attention and it feels good. Of course it does. However, you are still married.<P>My advice (as a good MB follower) is to STOP! STOP! STOP! STOP! and listen to what you know is right, not what feels good.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

I can't imagine why anyone would flame you... you are just a human being, and at least you are asking around before even starting to become involved with the guy.<P>It sounds to me like you feel it's something you shouldn't do - so you probably shouldn't do it. Instincts are pretty valuable.<P>Do you hope to one day build your marriage back up again? If your H were to come back to you at some point would it be what you wanted? If so, then you should just squelch the feelings of needing someone around for as long as you are willing to wait.<P>If you have given up on the marriage, then follow through with a divorce and then see whomever you please, KWIM?<P>Also, this guy will never remain just a friend with you feeling as lonely and stepped on as you do... especially if he is as charming as you say. <P>It just seems to me that you don't feel right about it, so you would be better off staying away.

I will tell you from personal, RECENT experience that IT IS NOT WORTH IT!!! The whole *week* I was separated from my H, I met this charming, cute Navy guy who was interested in me. I figured, hey, my loser of an H has cheated on me HOW many times, and HE'S seeing somebody right now, why can't I get some attention and have some fun? <P>It feels great while you're in it - the only way I can describe it is it's like being in love, PLUS the excitement and newness is wonderful. I did not even end up sleeping with the guy (although it easily could have gone there) - and when I woke up the morning after, I felt like the lowest life form on earth. When I finally did talk to my H, I felt even worse. I think the only good thing that came out of that whole mess was I got a glimpse of his perspective (although at least I cheat with GOOD looking people. Okay, cheap shot, sorry!). <P>You seem like a very honorable person, Jo. You still love your H a great deal, and I don't think that it would be healthy for you to start dating just yet. Not because you don't deserve it, but because you're probably not ready and you'll regret it. Especially if you and your H DO get back together, that will be just one more obstacle.<P>And WHY would we flame you for that? You're only human - it's NORMAL!!! Good luck

I think it's very normal to want to feel alive and attractive to the opposite sex. It's normal to want to be normal again and go out and have fun.<P>Personally, I have said the same as you, that I wouldn't date until I was free. Can't say that was completely true though. I did go out a couple of times, but was not intimate. <P>I guess everyone has their own time line and own needs, but it was rather disastrous for me because it was so hard to separate what was going on with the STBX and what was really happening with this guy. It just brought up too much junk that I was not ready to deal with and ultimately wasn't worth it. I think that when all this stuff is truly settled and digested, it would be a better time to think about such things. I think that just as they have rose colored glasses about their OP, as long as we are involved in a triangle (rectangle?) situation, we will too. It's just so hard to see straight.<P>And there IS a bit of pride to be able to say that you were always faithful.

Jo, I'm probably going to get blasted for saying this but I say go ahead. I guess I would take it slow and not rush into anything you are not ready for but being lonely is not fun. Spending half of your time on the computer here on this board like I am doing now can get really depressing. <P>If you really like spending time with this guy and he is aware of how you still feel about your H than what the hell. Life is to short to sit and wait for something that may never be. I myself am not ready to even think about another relationship but if the right person comes along who knows. <P>Jill<P>

Hi Jo:<BR>I have been gone for quite some time from this board but every now and then I check in to see how everyone is doing. <P>Unfortunately things with me have not gotten any better on the h front. He is still being as mean as ever and I truly feel as though i have fallen out of love with him. <P>I have been in counseling for over a year now and I realize, its time to move on. I also remember that post where i was talking about this other man that I had met. Let me tell you, I met him in my support group for seperated and divorced people. He had been thru the same thing as myself. He is the most kindest person I have ever met. He totally knows how I feel about my husband and always has from the beginning. He has helped me deal with my emotions like I have never dealt with them in the past. I feel like a new person. <P>My divorce will most likely be final by the end of the year and I don't know what the future holds for me. What I do know is that Sorrow is an emotion that i have felt every day througout this horrible ordeal. Sorrow arises to tell you that you are powerless to change something that you wish you could change. Letting go is required. <P>I am now ready to let go. I am ready for myself, not for the other man. I have come to this decision on my own. I am to good of a person to continue to be treated the way I am by my h. <P>I'm sure there are plenty of people out here who will be angry at me, but after spending 2 years trying to save this marriage, its time to move on. I know in my heart sometime down the road, my h will be the one who is sorry. I luckily will have moved on. Life is to short to wait around. <P>Good luck to you. I say give the other man a chance. Even if its just someone to talk to like the guy I went out with is. It helps tremendously but only it you are ready to move on. <P>Take care, I'll be thinking of you!.<BR>

Jo, you deserve love and happiness and I wish you could have both right now. I would never flame you if you dated this guy. I would be sad to see you be disappointed though, either in yourself or this new person. Some things are better left as fantasies. <P>You've come a long distance in this forum. You've become a stronger person. You have an arsenal of supportive friends in cyberspace and a great big MB toolkit. Your next relationship will be a better one because of the difficult path you've travelled, whether that next relationship is with your H or someone else. You'll never go back to what you had before because you have changed. I would just be so concerned for you if you date this new guy because it would probably be the equivalent of stubbing your toe bigtime. It happens to all of us, and it's infinitely regrettable, painful, and usually avoidable. Proceed with caution!

Hi Jo:<P>No, there's no way we could ever flame you because if we're willing to admit it we've all had thoughts about that "other guy/woman." It's natural...something to ease the pain.<P>The problem is that it's like a bandaid, a temporary solution until our wound is healed. But this is not something you can do to another human being. The situation is already crowded with 2 OW and OC...don't add to it. <P>My impression of you is that you are an honorable person and that this would be very much against your principles in a normal situation. This "feels good" but may leave you feeling bad in the long run. <P>It's not fair...H gets to have one or two OW...while we sit a home alone...he's never lonely...someone is holding, touching and comforting him. And the longer we wait the worse it gets, so there will come a time when the limited rewards of staying faithful to our H are far out weighed by the positive rewards of moving on. You'll know when that time is and you won't have any doubt about it. You'll be ready to move on..free of your ties to your H..free to have a truly unencumber relationship with someone new. And isn't that what you and any "new person" deserve. Free at last you can focus your undivided attention on that new person without any hesitation or guilt. Until that time, however, you need to remain committed and faithful to your marriage. <BR> <BR>That time may come tomorrow or 2 years in the future...that's up to you. I believe that you have begun the process of letting go and these drawings to OP are tenative steps to test out your own reactions to letting go. Testing possibilities are part of the process. Assuring ourselves that we are still attractive enough to lure another mate. Building back up ravaged egos. <P>Well, didn't mean for this to become a lecture but I care what happens to good people like you.<P>Buffy <BR>

Hi,<P>Like my mum says "put on x-ray glasses when you date a man". I didn't, I put on "rose-tinted and trusting glasses".<P>On one hand, I am happy you are seeing a possibility to be happy with someone other than your husband. This is probably the counsellor's way of helping you out of the situation you are in.<P>On the other hand, I would caution against any date going too fast into a relationship that you may not be ready for yet.<P>Overall, I see this development as a progress for spouses in our situation. Sometimes, it gets so bad and we are left stranded, even abandoned and deserted and yet continue to hold on to the remnants of a past.<P>But for my dearest baby, I would have put the house on the market, divorced, packed my bags for uni, fall in love with a young and faithful and single and principled guy, dye my hair strawberry, crown my teeth, take up inline skating to tone those butts (flat from posting), recapture my joy of life,...you get the drift.<P>There truly is life after being burnt, and I would say "GO FOR IT" and "ONE STEP AT A TIME".<P>God Bless<BR>Take Care<BR>weep

To everyone here. This subject comes up about once a month and the replies are usually the same as posted here.<P>Marriage, as well as the Marriage Builder principles, are based on a few “rules.”<P>One of the most important rules in ANY marriage, as most here can attest to...<P>DO NOT DATE OR DISCUSS YOUR MARITAL/SEX PROBLEMS WITH SOMEONE OF THE OPPOSITE SEX!<P>Don’t like it? Tough. You have come here for help in your marriage. While you are still married, then you are still married. If you wish to have reassurance that it is okay to go out with others while still married (even though your marriage is a “sham” or are quickly approaching divorce) then there are other sites where you can get all the support you need.<P><B>THIS SITE IS NOT ONE OF THEM!</B><P>A discussion of the issue is good to have. I think most people have had the thought and reasons why they did/didn’t do it are going to help out.<P>If you start “going slow”, at some point you will have to decide about your marriage. Having someone care about you, even just a tiny bit, will make you feel wonderful, especially since we are getting shat on by our spouses. So much more so that it will be EXTREMELY easy to see the worst of your spouse and not want to do anything to save the marriage.<P>Try to explain dating while married, to your kids while trying to teach them the value of marriage & fidelity.<P>MB advice & mine? Don’t date while married.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Hi Cris:<P>Hey, I have seen everything discussed on this site and this is no exception. It comes up because it is something all of us have to deal with. <P>In an ideal world we could all easily tell ourselves "I'm married" and although my WS has left me and taken up with another person, because I made this vow (at the same time he did) to remain faithful, I am honor bound to forsake all offers to console or confort me. <P>Jo came here looking for answers to a legitimate question, taking a chance that she might get "flamed" because she is not adhering strictly to MB principles. She's here because she needs help...and that's what she's going to get from me...regardless of what her problem is. I don't know how responsive my answers will be to her problem, but I certainly will not dismiss her because she's in conflict with the principles. <P>I agree in general with MB principles on this matter but my heart is sometimes weaker then my mind and needs support not to faulter. So far I have been successful, but the longer I remain in limbo the more difficult I anticipate this resolve will be to maintain. How about you?<P>Buffy <BR>

Chris,<P>I know you mean well.<P>Maybe you can give some advice to OW MonicaM from recovery - she is keeping the ladies guessing about still sleeping with someone's husband, and it is upsetting some BS.<P>God Bless<BR>weep

Buffy, <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I agree in general with MB principles on this matter but my heart is sometimes weaker then my mind and needs support not to <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>BINGO! Which is why we are at this web site. For the support & help to do what is right, not what will necessarily make us feel good.<P>I agree it is something most have to deal with, at least in thought.<P>Hey, I am by no means immune to the feelings. I'm not pretending to be. I am NOT close to anyone, but there is plenty of wanting to be. To keep it from happening, I do not put myself in situations where something could happen. For instance, there are two women in which I am particularly interested. I only know their first name & where they work. Therefore I do not go to where they work.<P>I don't see them as if I don't start a relationship (even just a friendship) now, it'll never happen. If it doesn't happen, then oh well.<P>Absolutely the longer it (affair) goes on, the more difficult it is. However, I try not to dwell on the loneliness part of it & try to do what I need for me in every area except sex & opposite sex relationships.<P>weep, don't think I'm familiar with her story but I'll have a look.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Hey, I am by no means immune to the feelings. I'm not pretending to be. I am NOT close to anyone, but there is plenty of wanting to be. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hey, I can vouch for Chris too---I seem to remember him going to a C&W bar and having a bit too much fun...<P>I think you got a "dope slap" for that one <P><BR>

As I remember it k, you told me it was okay or something to that effect, before you quickly changed it. Can youb say, "Freud?" LOL<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A><p>[This message has been edited by Chris (CA123) (edited September 12, 2000).]

Jo,<BR>Lor, the bad example, checking in.<P>I had a wonderful male friend last fall/winter. My H kept moving in & out, the friend at first was supportive of my MB efforts "you're so great, I know your H will come back to you", but after a couple months it turned to "you deserve so much more, I can give you so much more, I love you."<P>Meanwhile, I miss my marital relationship, I miss Guard, he's acting like a bum, he's mean to me, he tells me to find someone else--I tell him I don't have far to look. I've discover H's back with the OW during this time.<P>The OM calls or sees me daily...twice daily. God knows I haven't had any attention for 2 years--and it feels fabulous. Guard leaves me again...the OM begins calling me several times a day, with such a safety net firmly in place, I'm done with the marriage. Serve D papers. <P>Then, the kicker, Guard turns his life around. Truly. But I'm crazy about this other guy. Addicted, you might say. He soothed me, gave me peace & quiet, long talks, quality time (can you say, meeting my emotional needs?) Guard hasn't done that for what suddenly seems forever (the fog)...how could I throw the OM away and trust Guard to meet my needs?<P>I don't know how I did it, I think my being unsure was enough to bother the OM, so when I talked to him about no contact *for awhile* he went for it, and held me to it. He married 3 months later (where the heck did she come from?).<P>So, what's my point? <P>!!!!!!!!!!!!OUCH!!!!!!! <P>Not only do I have the pain of being a BS for 1 1/2 years, I have the pain of being a WS now that I've reconciled with Guard and knowing how it feels to have my EN met by somebody else, and Guard needing to learn me all over again because he had been meeting someone else's needs.<P>Guard is the love of my life. <BR>He's the ONE. <BR>And I nearly didn't give him another chance.<P>My actions doubled the betrayal issues between us. We can now both bop between the horrid emotions of being a WS and/or BS. If you've read my posts, you've seen me do it, there was daily confusion for a long time.<P>So, my advice? If your marriage has not ended legally, act married. If you want your marriage, don't see anyone else. If you have the slightest hope for your marriage, don't see anyone else.<P>Now of course, if I had followed through with the divorce or if Guard had not had a turnaround, my advice would be different. I would say "life is too short". But you know what life is too short for? Being hurt. And unless you've dropped the baggage from your marriage, you'll hurt the other person and they will hurt you, the triggers are still there and they will accidently hit them and not know what the heck is happening when you go off or become quiet. I call it hitting the NP with a bag they didn't pack.<P>Heal first. <P>And, this is the same advice I basically got from TNT when I posted about my "friend", way last Oct. I obviously didn't take it, but wish I had.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).

This is a tough one. Frankly, I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. In my view, after you get passed the one year mark, you've fixed your end of the marital problems, yet the affair continues, all bets are off. I think it's quite normal and perfectly OK to start seeing others, but I also understand the decision to wait on the marriage. It is what I did and in hindsight I think it was a mistake. Casual dating is one of the steps you take to start "moving on".<P>The most important point I saw on Lor's response. HEAL FIRST. Relationships based on neediness and pain are not likely to endure. But if you first recover from the marital malaise and make your life great, then a new relationship will get off to a more sound foundation. Of course, if you achieve that level odds are good you'll be divorcing the scoundrel anyway.<P>I don't think you should feel guilty about what you feel or what you do at this point. You didn't cause this situation and are dealing with it as best you can.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by missy9:<BR><B>I am now ready to let go. I am ready for myself, not for the other man. I have come to this decision on my own. I am to good of a person to continue to be treated the way I am by my h. <P>I'm sure there are plenty of people out here who will be angry at me, but after spending 2 years trying to save this marriage, its time to move on. I know in my heart sometime down the road, my h will be the one who is sorry. I luckily will have moved on. Life is to short to wait around. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Missy9, it sounds like you have come to terms with what you want in life and who you are, and I'm happy for you, good luck to you.<P>Resilient - I assume that you started this thread to get caring, support and advice, and it seems that you are getting all of that. I just wanted to ad my $.02 by saying that this <B>is</B> the site that you should be at, don't let anyone run you off or tell you different. Everyone has a right to their own beliefs and opinions and they are offering them to you, use what you want, discard what you don't want. <P>It's too bad you had to feel as though you were going to be flamed by some for posting what you are thinking or feeling.<P>To all of you "holier than thou" types, I wonder how many people come to this site and lurk and never post out of fear of being flamed, is that what Dr. Harley and his marriagebuilder's principles are all about? <P><B>No one should feel that they are going to get flamed for posting what they are thinking or feeling</B>

FA- MY FEELINGS EXACTLY! MB isn't a cult that has to be followed to the exact letter. I feel this is a forum where we can all lean on eachother for support and advice and learn how to be a all around better person. Plan A and B isn't just about getting our spouses back its about learning to be a better person to ourselves and others. If it works and you get your spouse back than great, but if not than you can use all the useful and wise things you have learned here to make your next relationship better. For Chris to tell Jo that there are other sites more suited for her was WRONG!